GPD XD2


Alperoot

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Thought it was another GPD Win article. They are very common nowadays.
 

SNESFAN

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Market? Release one game tablet, give no support, next year release another game tablet to supposedly address the problems of the first one, keep things as cheap as possible, the solution is getting closer at 50% a day, loop forever. ;)

Yep, their needed production run so that the product is worth doing is something I´d like to know too. Certainly they need higher sales numbers then Ed? but life is a lot cheaper in China than Germany, they may need less profit.
Give no support? They give plenty of support. Their firmware has been updated like 9 times in the last year on the XD.

Their release cycle will likely be 2+ years if you figure it takes them a year to go from concept to prototype. GPD win is roughly halfway through this cycle, and XD 1 followed the same pattern.

I don't know how big their company is, or their manufacturing process is, but 2 years for each line of product doesn't sound bad for a handheld and less throw away than most phones.

What time frame between device 1 and device 2 does there need to be before you don't consider the first rushed out and forgotten? 5 years? 7 years?
 

EvilDragon

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Give no support? They give plenty of support. Their firmware has been updated like 9 times in the last year on the XD.

Well, yes. But the GPD XD or GPD Q9 will never see a more recent Android version, for example.

Their release cycle will likely be 2+ years if you figure it takes them a year to go from concept to prototype. GPD win is roughly halfway through this cycle, and XD 1 followed the same pattern.

As far as I know, the Q9 has been released early 2015, the XD mid 2015, the GPD Win (and probably XD 2) are planned to be released end 2016.
That's not even close to 2 years...
 

SNESFAN

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So staying on the newest version of the underlying OS is the defacto benchmark for product is support? I was not aware. So the pandora is running the latest and greatest linux kernel and angstrom version out there then is what you're saying?

Lets agree in saying that support is addressing customer reported or other issues with the shipping firmware. We can disagree on what level of bleeding edge OS is support or not.

The relevant part of my quote was 2 years per line of product. If the XD 1 came out in mid 2015, and if they are in render stage now with the XD 2 and you added a year... I wouldn't be surprised if it we were looking at mid 2017 before it becomes a real device.

mid 2015 -> mid 2017 = 2 years

EDIT: either way, there were people saying that the GPD win couldn't be a 1 year render to device cycle. I'm not sure if you were the one saying that, but I vividly remember people saying that it wasn't going to happen. Now you're suggesting the XD 2 will be out by year's end. That's quite the form fitting arguement. It's pure speculation at this point as the time frame. I'm going off comparing history of render to hardware.

The XD and the successor the XD 2 appear to be a line of product. Are you suggesting the Q9 and Win are in the same product line?

As another example from a different company I would say that the iPhone and iPad are different enough to call them separate lines of products and those show a closer resemblance than the aforementioned.
 
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erico

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5 years heavy use is the minimum life time I expect of any hardware I buy and I know I can´t hold to that expectation unless I research before and am willing to pay.
It is not that I consider it rushed but I think GPD took GPH´s market and took it forward, and that at a time that android handhelds were starting to show up, so they build a name.
I´m not against GPD´s efforts, on the contrary, I love it, it gets better every version, but it is NOT a company throwing out products to last, that I believe you agree with me.
 

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So staying on the newest version of the underlying OS is the defacto benchmark for product is support? I was not aware.

No, but I doubt they have manually added any security fixes that more recent Android versions offer.

So the pandora is running the latest and greatest linux kernel and angstrom version out there then is what you're saying?

Actually, the kernel we currently have running on the Pandora is 3.2.78 which has been released February 28th 2016.
I'd say this is pretty recent.
The GPD XD is running Kernel 3.10.0 which has been released June 20th 2013. The latest version of the 3.10 kernel is 3.10.98 (Feb 27th 2016), so they're 98 kernel versions behind.
I'd say this is pretty old.

Please do not be confused by the kernel version numbers!
The first two numbers basically define the base kernel version (i.e. 3.2, 3.10, etc.).
A release of new base version (i.e. 3.10.) does not mean the old kernel is outdated and won't be updated anymore.
Basically, 3.10. adds new features that 3.2. does not have (i.e. big.little support).

3.2. has everything the Pandora needs, more recent kernels only have features that the Pandora can't really use.
notaz also handpicked some important changes and added them to our kernel. He also added security patches of some software packages.

So GPD XD is running a kernel from 2013 on a device released 2015 (even though that kernel has more recent versions), whereas the Pandora is running the latest one.

Unfortunately, Angstrom / OE doesn't really exist anymore, so besides the security fixes, it can't really be upgraded easily.
However, you can easily run Debian or Slackware on the Pandora, if you want the latest OS.
So while we'd love to upgrade, we can't really do that.

Android, however, is accessible. I am running the latest Android 6 on my years old Droid4 phone (thanks to the community, not thanks to the manufacturer).
If community members can do that, GPD could also do it - if they wanted to.
Heck, Android 5 was available when the GPD has been released...

Here is a nice list of security issues with Android 4.4.4:
https://www.cvedetails.com/version/177951/Google-Android-4.4.4.html

Have these been manually fixed with updates by GPD? I doubt it...

Yes, it might not be that important for a device you only play with, but in theory, someone could get access to the device and get into my Wifi network... and there's stuff he shouldn't access.

Lets agree in saying that support is addressing customer reported or other issues with the shipping firmware. We can disagree on what level of bleeding edge OS is support or not.

I don't care about bleeding edge, I care about security.
Unlike Linux, Android security fixed usually are not being backported, so Android 4.4.4 doesn't get any security fixed anymore.
You only get them with more recent versions.

The relevant part of my quote was 2 years per line of product. If the XD 1 came out in mid 2015, and if they are in render stage now with the XD 2 and you added a year... I wouldn't be surprised if it we were looking at mid 2017 before it becomes a real device.

Who knows. I saw someone mention that the GPD XD was shown as renderings early 2015 and was released mid 2015, so the GPD XD 2 might be similar.
The base has not been changed that much, so they don't need to redesign the case or anything, it's just small tweaks.
 

SNESFAN

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I don't care about bleeding edge, I care about security.
Unlike Linux, Android security fixed usually are not being backported, so Android 4.4.4 doesn't get any security fixed anymore.
You only get them with more recent versions.

Well I said we can just disagree on that point. I also don't hear "staying on top of security patches" as a common complaint among anyone but people who probably wouldn't use android anyway, just saying.
I hear things like "oh my hardware is making a weird noise" after upgrade "oh hey it's fixed, awesome!" That's what I argue is support. I hope we can at least agree that is support, and GPD does offer that.
Also I'm sure you personally are probably one of the reasons there is a very recent split version of their firmware, one without emulators and stuff bundled in, and another with it. So one could also argue they do listen to their customers requests as well.

So the picture I'm trying to paint differs to the one others here are painting that "ohh lets just throw some shit against the wall and see how much of it sticks, but hey, lets not wait too long because here comes the next load! CHOO! CHOO!" or some other nonsense.

Not perfect, but acceptable by a reasonable person IMO.

Who knows. I saw someone mention that the GPD XD was shown as renderings early 2015 and was released mid 2015, so the GPD XD 2 might be similar.
The base has not been changed that much, so they don't need to redesign the case or anything, it's just small tweaks.

I'm saying the wait was longer, the first image I saw of the GPD XD concept was about a year before it was made. Some might disagree, GPD didn't really get into the dingoonity until during the XD development cycle, mostly talked through ambassadors than posting themselves. I used to email correspondence with them back when the G5/G7 hit the market, it was shortly after that when they were thinking about their next device. Either way, XD2 looks like it is going to need at a minimum a hinge redesign so it's not going to be slapping a new name on an existing product with new guts, who knows what else they are going to change between now and then. You know first hand the problems you went through with the pyra and it's not a ground up product either, there is at least some overlap in design and minor tweaks going on.

5 years heavy use is the minimum life time I expect of any hardware I buy and I know I can´t hold to that expectation unless I research before and am willing to pay.
It is not that I consider it rushed but I think GPD took GPH´s market and took it forward, and that at a time that android handhelds were starting to show up, so they build a name.
I´m not against GPD´s efforts, on the contrary, I love it, it gets better every version, but it is NOT a company throwing out products to last, that I believe you agree with me.

It just depends on your expectations. To me 5 years seems a bit much to ask from company to support. Support it with major patches for as long as you are producing new units and then I guess a year for warranty after the last one rolls off the line then cut the cord and start focusing on your next project. Those are my expectations.

But even if you take your own example GPH you'll see the 2 year cycle emerge. Now I wasn't too much into the GPH handhelds, so I'm largely assuming they followed the same product line. If I'm wrong, and they were their own entities like I argue the GPD Q9, XD, G5/G7, and Win are, then I apologize.

GP32 Nov 2001
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TrashyMG

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To me 5 years seems a bit much to ask from company to support.
my First Batch Pandora hit 5 years old not to long ago... Sometimes it nice to have support for this long, rather than being dumped into a ditch.
 

SNESFAN

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my First Batch Pandora hit 5 years old not to long ago... Sometimes it nice to have support for this long, rather than being dumped into a ditch.
I agree it's nice, but companies that offer less, or have some line drawn in the sand short of 5 years for updates would encompass basically the entire rest of the mobile market, even those that some might consider excellent in that regard.

Pandora surely has that going for them, I would even consider that as excellent, but demanding nothing less still seems a little bit much to me.
 
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erico

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I understand, but the cycle is not my point neither an issue for me.

My point is as stated and as I asked you. I will do it again, do you believe GPD is targeting long last quality hardware?
Are they really pooling their "community´s" interest in a sense that they care?

Come on, you can´t seriously answer both as yes.
Again, nothing wrong with their product, I like it, but it is a release-for-profit-only company in my books.
They are getting better by the years and that is awesome, but it is still below cultural western standards as it is today, product and support.
 

Klumpen

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Well, yes. But the GPD XD or GPD Q9 will never see a more recent Android version, for example.

As far as I know, the Q9 has been released early 2015, the XD mid 2015, the GPD Win (and probably XD 2) are planned to be released end 2016.
That's not even close to 2 years...
Have they replied to the question about the botched firmware/partitions of the Q9 yet?
 

EvilDragon

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Have they replied to the question about the botched firmware/partitions of the Q9 yet?
Yes... though I'm not really sure whether it's useful or not.
They say the storage hardware of the Q9 is different than on the XD, so the XD can use the full storage, whereas the Q9 is limited to that little space as that's a limitation of Android 4.
The only way to do it is to move apps and games on the large storage.
 

vcoleiro1

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Just reading the Chinese forum again today, it looks like they are planning to crowd fund the GPD XD2, not sure where, but considering the GPD XD was crowdfunded on a chinese crowd funding platform, I'd imagine it will be back there again.
 

SNESFAN

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I understand, but the cycle is not my point neither an issue for me.

My point is as stated and as I asked you. I will do it again, do you believe GPD is targeting long last quality hardware?
Are they really pooling their "community´s" interest in a sense that they care?

Come on, you can´t seriously answer both as yes.
Again, nothing wrong with their product, I like it, but it is a release-for-profit-only company in my books.
They are getting better by the years and that is awesome, but it is still below cultural western standards as it is today, product and support.
I'm sorry, I thought the question was a rhetorical one, and as you were providing an answer you really didn't expect one. But here goes.

Do I feel they are targeting long lasting hardware?
I think they are targeting plastics that will last for the price point they have to hit. Yes,
A recent chipset that will remain relevant for the pricepoint they have to hit, yes.
The screen featuring gorilla glass that does nothing but makes the device resistant to scratches so it lasts longer, yes.
quoting the estimated number of clicks it takes to wear out their microswitches in the shoulder buttons, yes.

It's not a black and white issue, there are degrees and interpretation. But yes for it's price, I'm satisfied with the build quality and component's ability to outlive my usefulness of the device. Enough time for me to move on to the next thing. So yes their targets appear to be long lasting.

Are they pooling community's interest in a sense that they care?

They talk more on baidau than on dingoonity as they are from that region. They are now more active in the english communities and I feel that is good.
Do they take all requests to heart and try to make the best suggestions and turn it into the next device? No.
Do they take some things we asked for like clamshell and ergonomic design and turn them into real things, yes.
Do they address issues when asked in forums rather than official support channels? yes.

Does it seem like they care? I would say yes.

Now the comparison, do they care more than their competitors?

In that region, absolutely, without a doubt. I banged my head against the wall for years trying to get a similar channel of discussion with JXD and others. Them feeding you garbage while doing absolutely nothing about it but to get you to quit emailing them or talking to them. Don't like it? Buy the next one. That is the real kind of feeling I got when dealing with other handheld manufacturers in that region.

In comparison to like ED? No, not as good. But ED's products are also several times more expensive.

Long answer to say I feel you get my money's worth, you get as much or more than you pay for from each, all things considered. And quality to match a reasonable level of lasting use. I would say at least 2 years if not more. I don't feel we're dealing with a first gen gameboy, but I also don't feel we're dealing with a vending machine toy either.
 
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EvilDragon

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Well I said we can just disagree on that point. I also don't hear "staying on top of security patches" as a common complaint among anyone but people who probably wouldn't use android anyway, just saying.
I hear things like "oh my hardware is making a weird noise" after upgrade "oh hey it's fixed, awesome!" That's what I argue is support. I hope we can at least agree that is support, and GPD does offer that.

Well, that's customer support, which seems to be good here, especially for a chinese company where the native language is not English. That's great!

However, we were talking about supporting the product, which is upgrades of the OS, especially security fixes.

Unfortunately, these days, software updates are often underrated. With gaming devices like a GameBoy or similar, which had their own OS and no sensitive data on them, it was't needed.
However, these days, almost all gaming devices are always connected to the internet, store sensitive data (Wlan passwords, store accounts, etc.) and therefore security is an issue.
I am also blaming Google for that, as the Play Store can only be used if you enter your credentials... would be great to have a guest account to download free stuff, especially for devices that are only being meant for gaming.

I am not scared that anyone will delete or steal games or savestates I have on the system - it's the account details that are critical.

And that's especially critical with common OS, as the attacker tools don't need to target a specific system but only the OS.
So even the smallest niche product is endangered and should be kept up-to-date.

The chances that some random attack script targets the GPD XD is a lot larger than a random attack script targetting the Pandora.

Also I'm sure you personally are probably one of the reasons there is a very recent split version of their firmware, one without emulators and stuff bundled in, and another with it. So one could also argue they do listen to their customers requests as well.

Well, that's not especially a customer request. It's the only way to legally import them into Europe, which is what they want to do :)

So the picture I'm trying to paint differs to the one others here are painting that "ohh lets just throw some shit against the wall and see how much of it sticks, but hey, lets not wait too long because here comes the next load! CHOO! CHOO!" or some other nonsense.

Not perfect, but acceptable by a reasonable person IMO.

Yes, I never said that their customer support isn't good. I am very happy it IS good.
But sadly, these days, products need more support and updates than 10 years ago, which is something you shouldn't forget.

I'm saying the wait was longer, the first image I saw of the GPD XD concept was about a year before it was made. Some might disagree, GPD didn't really get into the dingoonity until during the XD development cycle, mostly talked through ambassadors than posting themselves.

Ah, then I misunderstood a post. As I read someone claiming that the GPD XD was out a few months after the first renderings.

You know first hand the problems you went through with the pyra and it's not a ground up product either, there is at least some overlap in design and minor tweaks going on.

Yes, having case data you reuse is a lot more easier, which was the plan with the Pyra. Reuse as much as possible for future upgrades.
Sadly that was't possible with the Pandora.

It just depends on your expectations. To me 5 years seems a bit much to ask from company to support. Support it with major patches for as long as you are producing new units and then I guess a year for warranty after the last one rolls off the line then cut the cord and start focusing on your next project. Those are my expectations.

Well, it depends. High security risks should be fixed as long as possible.
If I'm fine using the GPD XD and don't want to upgrade to the XD2, it would be nice to get fixes.

However it seems there weren't even major security fixes within the lifetime of the GPD :)

Sadly, that's typical with Android. It seems there are only major updates, are there smartphones which use something like apt-get or pacman to simply update one package?
AFAIK, there isn't, so implementing security fixes into old Android versions isn't easy. That's what I like about Linux and hate about Android.

However, given that Android 5 was even out before the GPD XD was released, they could've at least upgraded to that version.

GP32 Nov 2001
GP2X Nov 2005
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Well, the F200 was mainly an update of the F100, because Craig, me and the community was nagging about a DPad and a touchscreen.
The rest of the device was completely the same, so the F100 also got the firmware updates the F200 received.

GP2X Wiz May 2009
GP2X Caanoo Sep 2011

Ah yes, the sad ending of GPH.
The WIZ was nice, but the LCD was failing on a lot of units, and some users complained the display was too small...

Because of the failing LCDs, GPH needed to rush out a new version, which was the Caanoo... it uses the same hardware as the WIZ, but they removed the DPad (for whatever reason) and the software wasn't compatible.
I told GPH if they release that one, it won't sell very well... and that was the case, it seems.

If the WIZ didn't have the failing OLED issues, the Caanoo would've probably been more refined, a next-gen handheld with more features, but they had to rush it.

Give that, the release cycle would be 4 years, as the F200 was a minor upgrade that used the same firmware, so the F100 still got upgrades until the end of the F200.

I doubt that the firmware of the XD2 will run on the XD though, as they use a different SoC, so it's different here.

But as mentioned, I mostly blame the Android system for not being able providing easy security patches.
 

AnimatedFreak

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So weird seeing that blank space in the middle. I want to stick a Jaguar keypad in there just to fill it in xD
[doublepost=1457961769,1457961596][/doublepost]Oh btw just saw a link in the comments of the artical. it's a video showing a keyboard concept for it
 

levi

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my First Batch Pandora hit 5 years old not to long ago... Sometimes it nice to have support for this long, rather than being dumped into a ditch.
That's true, but it's only really necessary in our case because it's that long since the Pandora first batch came out. If the project hadn't been managed into the metaphorical ditch then rescued, it's possible some Pandora 2 would have been out by now running an A9 or something, and personally I only expect official support to last until the next device is out plus a year or so maybe.

But then all of my other devices are well out of their official support periods by now, and not running the supported OS any more anyway. That's thanks to the Linux community supporting old processors and peripherals, which shows the community can support old devices perfectly well provided you're willing to put a little work in and actually install it. Given support in these parts is at least 50% provided by the community it's a little less clear here how much support is official and how much is community driven.
 

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