GPD Win (x86 Computer / Palmtop)

[thatgui]

@thatgui

No, the initial slower SOC was the z8500. Both the z8700 and z8750 are close in speed, there's very little between them performance wise.

Thanks for the correction. Still a little disappointing: if we already get the more power hungry system, I would like to have the better/max. SoC too: Looks like the Gfx chip is a little beefier and the z8750 has the AES instruction set > which is really nice to have on a mobile device

I can confirm the supply issues.
GPD sent me an email, the units will probably be delayed until November and they might have the Z8700 in because of supply issues.

The delay is quite disappointing, but thanks for the fast response

 

[comradekingu]

So what is the general story on the Z8750, how many were made, and how many exist in the distribution chain to be bought, and by whom? I imagine the production run for it is over?

Edit: The Z8750 also has some errata fixed in regard to the 8700.

 

[EvilDragon]

So what is the general story on the Z8750, how many were made, and how many exist in the distribution chain to be bought, and by whom? I imagine the production run for it is over?

I doubt it. The expensive thing is not PRODUCING a chip, but developing it.
I can't imagine Intel won't do any production runs for it anymore.

 

[Christoph.Krn]

Discovery takes place between ENT and TOS. DS9 goes back at least as far as TOS [...]

[...] there were several episodes of TNG that go back before TOS [...]. [...] they had warp 15 in TOS and it was still slower than warp 10 in TNG/DS9/VOY), and exists everywhere. [...] Voyager [...]

Okay everyone, can you please leave your nerdiness off-topic at home? This is a serious thread about the intricate technical details of an x86 handheld computer. (edit: of course I'm not really being serious here)

Besides, everybody knows that Stargate: SG-1 is way better than Star Trek anyway. The cloud is alive? That's crazy!

Rather than losing all that stuff, I would install Linux on a VM and think that I am not an important person, what would change in my life if Microsoft spying on me? I already use Google's mail and mobile OS, I already go to places that have cameras and one day if the government makes it obbligatory to put survelliance cameras on houses )maybe not really) there is not much I can do. But in the end, life is short (even I lived 1/5 of it) so why bother such small things?

Cool, please send me all your passwords. I promise to keep them to myself forever, and I will not do anything with them. Also, a copy of all your private conversations would be nice.

I've had to reinstall my own Windows 7 at work TWICE already as at some time it suddenly had issues with updating. I tried all fixes I could find (and I know what I'm doing), but only a full reinstall fixed things...

I don't know if you knew this or if it helps you, but Windows has had a built-in image-based backup system since Vista: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/616536/creating-a-windows-backup-image/

 

[Alperoot]

Cool, please send me all your passwords. I promise to keep them to myself forever, and I will not do anything with them. Also, a copy of all your private conversations would be nice.

Would THAT change your life?

 

[Christoph.Krn]

Would THAT change your life?

Suddenly you DO "bother such small things"? Do you have something to hide?

 

[elwing]

Looks like the Gfx chip is a little beefier

Where did you got that information? To me it seems the GFX part is exactly the same, the 405 added for the Z8750 is only because Intel changed the way they brand the GFX, they both run at same speed too, the only difference I am aware of is this alpha bug correction...

 

[Chip]

Man, this thread really went off the rails in the last couple days.

I doubt it. The expensive thing is not PRODUCING a chip, but developing it.
I can't imagine Intel won't do any production runs for it anymore.

There's costs, and then there are costs. Actually producing the chips is (relatively) cheap, but they're sold for practically nothing. Intel probably doesn't make much per sale - heck, they might even lose a buck or two. Even if we assume they aren't being sold at a direct loss, they're almost certainly selling at an indirect loss.

It doesn't cost intel any more to physically manufacture a $45 pentium chip than it does to physically manufacture a $20 atom. As long as intel keeps making atoms, people will keep sticking them in tablets and chromebooks and other entry-level devices. If the atoms go away, device manufacturers will have no choice but to upgrade to the higher-margin pentiums. If intel slows/stops production of the atom, they stand to make more money. This is surely why they cancelled the brand in the first place, and is very likely why there are suddenly all these supply issues. Not because the atom was a failure, but because it was eating the lunch of the more-profitable low power pentiums.

 

[comradekingu]

Their whole mobile devision was a huge black hole to throw R&D money into. Every single atom ever sold lost them money, which is why they closed it.
Knowing intels business policy of not allowing cannibalizing of sales, even gimping lower-end products to be inferior, it would make sense if they didn't try to sell any atoms.

The cat is out of the bag, and everyone knows it didn't pan out, so they might aswell try to sell something they do make more money from.
Usually production runs take up production capability for a set amount of time, and then its onto new things.

Edit: ninjad

 

[Alperoot]

Suddenly you DO "bother such small things"? Do you have something to hide?

It isn't such a small thing, when you have the card account you need for 4/5 of your life linked to gmail

 

[thatgui]

Besides, everybody knows that Stargate: SG-1 is way better than Star Trek anyway. The cloud is alive? That's crazy!

Thats such a horrible thing to say...

Where did you got that information? To me it seems the GFX part is exactly the same, the 405 added for the Z8750 is only because Intel changed the way they brand the GFX, they both run at same speed too, the only difference I am aware of is this alpha bug correction...

Hmm, maybe is misunderstood the following

The GPU was simply called Intel HD Graphics (Broadwell) before 2016 and included also the slower 12 EUs version in the Celeron model. The Graphics 405 name currently only stands for 16-core-versions in Pentium models. The 12 EU version is now called Intel HD Graphics 400.
....
The SoC also integrates a video decoding engine that should be able to handle 4K H.265 videos.

Source

 

[elwing]

Thats such a horrible thing to say...


Hmm, maybe is misunderstood the following

Source

From what I understand, Z8300 and 8500 have gpu with 12 EUs and 8700 16 EUs. all the Z8x00 have a GPU without numbers even trough they are not the same. with the Z8x50, the Z8350 and Z8550 were rebranded "Intel HD Graphics 400" and the Z8750 "Intel HD Graphics 405", meaning that beside silicon fixes the Z8700 and Z8750 got the same GPU... but Intel documentation is rather obscure...

edit: http://ark.intel.com/compare/93362,85475
almost no change beside the max burst frequency, which I suspect won't have a major impact. both GPU are using 16 EUs, the 405 is only a rebranding. what this do not show is the silicon errata trough... we know the Z8700 as an errata related to an alpha transparency bug, while the Z8750 seems to have one regarding power management in some deep sleep modes... both are marked as being "avoidable" by software fixes.

 

[rygD]

Okay everyone, can you please leave your nerdiness off-topic at home? This is a serious thread about the intricate technical details of an x86 handheld computer. (edit: of course I'm not really being serious here)

Besides, everybody knows that Stargate: SG-1 is way better than Star Trek anyway. The cloud is alive? That's crazy!

SG-1 is ok, but I wouldn't say it, or any of the other Stargate series are better than ST, but that are far superior to Star Wars. I haven't finished SG-1 (i am a fan, though), as I no longer had time to keep up with it around when the new bad guys came in, and have never got back around to it since then. Although it wasn't very original, seeming to borrow heavily from the BSG reboot and Star Trek: Voyager, I wanted SGU to stick around longer. I caught Atlantis here and there, and will probably go back and watch them whenever I go finish SG-1. The original film is still one of my favorites. At present I watch Ancient Aliens whenever there is a new episode, or at least have it on as background noise, and I still enjoy the Lovecraft version of this sort of stuff, and read the stories by him and his friends.

I don't know if the Win would be the kind of thing they would use in Stargate. I like to imagine the Pyra might work out, even if it wasn't official equipment. More than likely they would use something a bit more mainstream (like a tablet or smartphone) or have something custom made for the military. The biggest weaknesses I see for handheld computers are durability and input, so the Win fails with those. There are other things that will also be important that would be better determined knowing how such a device would be used. Throw Wesley Crusher in there with MacGyver, and it didn't matter what you give them or what they encounter, they can fix it. Bah, I forgot about Samantha Carter, the Wesley of SG-1.

 

[Grench]

SG-1 is ok, but I wouldn't say it, or any of the other Stargate series are better than ST, but that are far superior to Star Wars. I haven't finished SG-1 (i am a fan, though), as I no longer had time to keep up with it around when the new bad guys came in, and have never got back around to it since then. Although it wasn't very original, seeming to borrow heavily from the BSG reboot and Star Trek: Voyager, I wanted SGU to stick around longer. I caught Atlantis here and there, and will probably go back and watch them whenever I go finish SG-1. The original film is still one of my favorites. At present I watch Ancient Aliens whenever there is a new episode, or at least have it on as background noise, and I still enjoy the Lovecraft version of this sort of stuff, and read the stories by him and his friends.

I don't know if the Win would be the kind of thing they would use in Stargate. I like to imagine the Pyra might work out, even if it wasn't official equipment. More than likely they would use something a bit more mainstream (like a tablet or smartphone) or have something custom made for the military. The biggest weaknesses I see for handheld computers are durability and input, so the Win fails with those. There are other things that will also be important that would be better determined knowing how such a device would be used. Throw Wesley Crusher in there with MacGyver, and it didn't matter what you give them or what they encounter, they can fix it. Bah, I forgot about Samantha Carter, the Wesley of SG-1.

SG1 used, on set and visible in many scenes, a collection of Tapwave Zodiac Palm OS handhelds.

 

[TheOldOne]

I haven't seen it mentioned here but on an indigogo update 10 days ago it was said that the 6900mAh battery was unstable so they are going to use a 6700mAh one.

Also they're going back to mini HDMI again. I actually have a mini HDMI to Standard HDMI cable that came with a video card.

This will likely change again before it's actually shipped.

 

[rygD]

SG1 used, on set and visible in many scenes, a collection of Tapwave Zodiac Palm OS handhelds.

I couldn't remember details (I thought it was Atlantis) so I figured I would let you, or someone with more knowledge, mention it.

 

[MJPIA]

I haven't seen it mentioned here but on an indigogo update 10 days ago it was said that the 6900mAh battery was unstable so they are going to use a 6700mAh one.

Also they're going back to mini HDMI again. I actually have a mini HDMI to Standard HDMI cable that came with a video card.

This will likely change again before it's actually shipped.

They started shipping to Chinese JD.com backers several days ago so those aren't changing.
I wanna say they changed to mini hdmi months ago but completely forgot to mention that and other things in that latest update until someone reminded them they should do that.

Since there are some technically minded people here who likely know more about this than I do or might know someone know knows gonna throw out a thing I've been trying to find info on.
With a ongoing Chinese festival our Engrish speaking GPD rep is gone with a tempest in a teacup brewing over the Z8700 and how it has some issue with alpha blending.
There's no concrete proof this will be a issue for console emulation or even a issue for anything else but some people have been throwing it around so I'm trying to find info on it.

I'm pretty sure this is the errata involving alpha blending.

CHT30

SoC May Experience an Incorrect Pixel Alpha Component Render Target

Problem: Under certain complex 3D Render pipeline conditions, the graphics subsystem may experience an incorrect pixel alpha component in the render target.


Implication: Due to this erratum the graphics subsystem may experience an incorrect pixel alpha component in the render target. This erratum has not been observed with the commercial applications tested.


Workaround: Applications can be written to avoid the conditions necessary for this erratum to occur.

Here's Intel's Z8000 spec sheet which includes all the known errata on it (49 total, 48 shared between the Z8x00 and Z8x50 lines.
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/atom/atom-z8000-spec-update.html

Intel's product change information document about the Z8750 says this:

Summary of hardware & software changes from Intel® Atom™ x5/x7 processor C-stepping to D-stepping:
1. Increase max. CPU burst frequency
2. Fix 2 previously disclosed Alpha Blending and ASTC graphics errata
3. Implement new processor numbers with “50” added to processor number to distinguish the new D-stepping parts (ex.
C-stepping: Intel® Atom™ x7-Z8700 -> D-stepping: Intel® Atom™ x7-Z8750)
4. Introduce new graphics branding with Intel® HD Graphics 400 for 12EU SKUs (Intel® Atom™ x5-Z8550 and
Intel® Atom™ x5-Z8350), and Intel® HD Graphics 405 for 16EU SKU (Intel® Atom™ x7-Z8750). The new Intel®
HD Graphics 400/405 branding is only exposed via the Intel® HD Graphics Control Panel under Windows OS.

Now here's the thing, Intel's spec sheet which lists all the errata does not mention anything about ASTC anywhere in it.
Which to me that would seem that the alpha blending and ASTC errors are wrapped together and there are alpha blending problems with ASTC compression under certain conditions which is more a Android issue and wouldn't apply to emulators on the Win, no?
Or not knowing much about this am I completely off and reading too much into it?
I tried asking Intel about anything related to it but they never got back to me and from what I've seen Intel treats details about errata as classified info and won't give details to relative nobody's so I doubt they'll give me anything.

 

[vcoleiro1]

A tear down of the GPD WIN

http://toutiao.com/a6331995871006228737/

 

[TrashyMG]

A tear down of the GPD WIN

http://toutiao.com/a6331995871006228737/

Wow on Translation I thought criticism for the Pyra was bad...

 

[comradekingu]

How are they applying thermal paste like it's ranch?