GPD Win (x86 Computer / Palmtop)

[erico]

Did anyone else notice that we have reached the xbox vs playstation console wars in our community? Are we really those people?

No, we are even more hardcore, we get to that level with hardware that is not even released yet...

 

[Klumpen]

This board has its own religions. Just think of the FSF and keyboard threads.

 

[Exophase]

@Exophase likes this kind of confrontations, and because we like Exophase, we need to be "those people"

I'm actually not liking this I'd rather get back to the technical discussion than arguing over what words mean. On that note..

So, this is what will happen, the GPD Win maybe will be able to attracts many people at the beginning, but at some point it will naturally become SLOWER than the Pyra, even excluding the hardware upgradability of the latter, and after some years, even if both will be defined "old", the Pyra will still continue to shine.

There is a point here, where Pandora has benefited from having special work done on a relatively lightweight distro, so there are some performance benefits sometimes.

But I don't think this will be that big for Pyra so as to make it eventually faster than something like GPD Win. Especially if we don't end up having good access to the display controller or don't end up making good use of the 2D accelerator. If we have to go through the GPU for everything it's going to be painful, because this is the part that's not open and doesn't have any kind of low level interface. Here being stuck with OpenGL ES 2.0 as opposed to something like OpenGL 4+ or even Direct3D 12 or Vulkan is going to be a big limiter, and the GPU is going to be a lot weaker to begin with.

I don't think the situation with Windows is going to be nearly as bad as it can be with Android in terms of overhead imposed with things like touch and audio latency. And there are a fair number of emulators that run on Windows that have a good amount of x86 optimizations.

 

[fusion_power]

Did anyone else notice that we have reached the xbox vs playstation console wars in our community? Are we really those people?

Pfft, thats nothing compared to the old SEGA/NINTENDO or PC/AMIGA -wars back then, I'm a veteran of those. And this here I would not even call a fight, just conversation. I like the fact that Pyra will get some competition, it shows that the Pandora-concept may have a wider audience now.

 

[ZXDunny]

Pfft, thats nothing compared to the old SEGA/NINTENDO or PC/AMIGA -wars back then, I'm a veteran of those. And this here I would not even call a fight, just conversation. I like the fact that Pyra will get some competition, it shows that the Pandora-concept may have a wider audience now.

Or in my case, Spectrum vs C64

You're right though - these people don't even know how to argue and once there's a hint that the gloves are coming off they back off saying that they find it all funny. There's no life in the trolls anymore, and that's quite sad.

D.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

I am a pioneer. I am pioneering in being stupid enough being involved in such a project twice

That makes us guys twice stupid too because you know we will support you in whatever you decide to do.
[doublepost=1456874223,1456873510][/doublepost]

Pfft, thats nothing compared to the old SEGA/NINTENDO or PC/AMIGA -wars back then, I'm a veteran of those. And this here I would not even call a fight, just conversation. I like the fact that Pyra will get some competition, it shows that the Pandora-concept may have a wider audience now.

Yup. Amiga versus PC- Amiga versus snes and Megadrive. Amiga versus... well you get the idea. Oh to be a child again.

 

[PowerGod]

But I don't think this will be that big for Pyra so as to make it eventually faster than something like GPD Win. Especially if we don't end up having good access to the display controller or don't end up making good use of the 2D accelerator. If we have to go through the GPU for everything it's going to be painful, because this is the part that's not open and doesn't have any kind of low level interface. Here being stuck with OpenGL ES 2.0 as opposed to something like OpenGL 4+ or even Direct3D 12 or Vulkan is going to be a big limiter, and the GPU is going to be a lot weaker to begin with.

I don't think the situation with Windows is going to be nearly as bad as it can be with Android in terms of overhead imposed with things like touch and audio latency. And there are a fair number of emulators that run on Windows that have a good amount of x86 optimizations.

I can understand your concerns, but as of now, Windows is not a so common platform around for handheld devices, and many applications optimized for Direct3D 12 will be made for desktops with larger displays, so still, to make things good will require even there some kind of exclusive work for that type of little platform... I'm not sure about OpenGL 4 or Vulkan, but still I think that many things made with those will suffer for little displays, if the applications are made for desktops... (I'm mainly speaking about games with little fonts or icons)

I'm ignorant about low level programming, but I have seen many times in the past phrases like "we don't have documentation for that, so we can't use it", "it will never be that fast", "there's no way to use that", but then at some point everything became faster and usable, so, call me stupid, but I still think that with time many solutions will become accessible... if there's the will to make it so.

Damn, there are still people optimizing the Commodore things !!

 

[WizardStan]

I said something about this a couple months ago and basically got accused of blasphemy

Yeah, see, no one accused you of blasphemy, that's straight up hyperbole, and I'm still not seeing any "religious" debate, certainly nothing even close to a shadow of what XBox vs Playstation (vs Nintendo) dedicated forums get to, not even a Windows vs Linux vs Android. I'm seeing a few members waging a personal war but for the most part it's agnostic, arguing over semantics. The one person who made disparaging comments against Windows basically got lambasted for making that comment, so if you're still trying to paint the entire community as some kind of anti-Windows, anti-anything-but-Pandora/Pyra, despite all the evidence against such an opinion in this very thread, then I don't know what more you want. If that's all it takes to make an entire other community hate us then we never stood a chance.
Some people are going to say mean things, this is fact of life, best we can do is counter that negativity where it shows up. What do you want us to do, ban Kiga because he alone thinks the GPD WIN is a hack?

 

[SNESFAN]

I got nothing, I'm not going to defend the stance anymore. You keep thinking what your going to think and I keep thinking what I'm going to and call it a day.

I propose no solution nor am I pointing fingers, I'm just in favor of equality and people accepting other people's view points and preferences as just that.

 

[WizardStan]

I propose no solution nor am I pointing fingers, I'm just in favor of equality and people accepting other people's view points and preferences as just that.

So do I, which is why I'm so confused by this whole concept. People hate us and I don't even understand why.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Maybe Craig's behind the whole thing... (it's possible)

 

[DaMummy]

That makes us guys twice stupid too because you know we will support you in whatever you decide to do.

People here would bungee jump off his balls to protect his name.

 

[TrashyMG]

People here would bungee jump off his balls to protect his name.

Of course, you know how soft they are...

 

[ekianjo]

But I don't think this will be that big for Pyra so as to make it eventually faster than something like GPD Win. Especially if we don't end up having good access to the display controller or don't end up making good use of the 2D accelerator. If we have to go through the GPU for everything it's going to be painful, because this is the part that's not open and doesn't have any kind of low level interface. Here being stuck with OpenGL ES 2.0 as opposed to something like OpenGL 4+ or even Direct3D 12 or Vulkan is going to be a big limiter, and the GPU is going to be a lot weaker to begin with.

Definitely. But I'm not sure that's the key appeal of the Pyra. On the hardware/software side, the Pyra will pretty be much like a portable desktop experience, making it a much more capable computing device than the Pandora ever was. Sure, it might not be that much better for gaming for the reasons you raise, but it's not like everyone here is using the Pandora exclusively for gaming either.

 

[rygD]

Did anyone else notice that we have reached the xbox vs playstation console wars in our community? Are we really those people?

Until people start dying due to their involvement it isn't a war. We can only hope.

Or in my case, Spectrum vs C64

Apple II vs C64. I was around and aware of a bunch of this kind of stuff, but I never got in on it. I just don't really care what others want to use/play with. Even during all the years of Nintendo vs others, while I like some Nintendo games and franchises (and like carts over discs, back during the short period when both were on the market) that never stopped me from playing Sonic or various PS games. Hell, even when it comes to an OS I am not hard to one choice. I have moved away from my support of most Linux distros in recent years, and back toward BSD, which I have not messed with in many years. I thought Windows had value (until recently) it just wasn't for me, unless I really wanted to play a certain game. So am I now a Mac fanboy?

once there's a hint that the gloves are coming off they back off saying that they find it all funny. There's no life in the trolls anymore, and that's quite sad.

Nah, you can still appreciate conflict without being directly involved. Just because you enjoy it doesn't mean you are a troll. I have no interest in being a troll but I like arguing. Also, disagreement makes things better.

so, call me stupid

Done!
But that's ok:

That makes us guys twice stupid too because you know we will support you in whatever you decide to do.

I wouldn't say "whatever". Probably, though. Also, our stupidity isn't just because of little handheld computers.

Yeah, see, no one accused you of blasphemy

Everyone here is a blasphemer, except me and ED. Except when ED doubts himself or his choices. Or all that stuff with the logo. He should have gone with what he thought looked best.

So do I, which is why I'm so confused by this whole concept. People hate us and I don't even understand why.

Who cares? If they are willing to talk they may find we aren't as bad as they think, otherwise I see no reason to try to clean up how we are viewed by those that just want to sit back and call us names. Why concern yourself with that if it is just going to make you feel bad?

 

[ZXDunny]

People here would bungee jump off his balls to protect his name.

Of course, you know how soft they are...

Hang on. This ain't right. Either I'm reading this wrong or you're going to attach a bungee rope to his danglies and then jump off the bridge. Or you're saying that you could grab a handful and use them as a bungee rope. Or further, that they would be a great place to land.

Has anyone asked ED about this? I'm not sure he's going to like our new pastime...

D.

 

[WizardStan]

Who cares?

I do. I literally just said that it confuses me.

Why concern yourself with that if it is just going to make you feel bad?

Because it has an impact. An entire community, one which has such a significant overlap of interests that we should be fast friends, is actively warning people to stay away from us because of how bad we are, and it's working. There's been more than one person in recent memory that came and said "please don't yell at me but I have this problem blah blah". As the official Pandora/Pyra forum, that is exactly the kind of attitude we don't want.
SNESFAN has tried to point out specific instances, and I can admit to being swayed that some of them can be interpreted as insultingly elitist, but even those specific instances are tame compared to some of the flak Dingoonity has thrown at new devices, and yet we're the problem.

 

[rygD]

@WizardStan I still feel this place is extremely tame compared to many other boards out there. People hate for many reasons, and there is no way to change how some of them feel.

I don't remember where it was mentioned that we are big, bad elitists, but go join them over there, see if you can identify how they interact differently over there, and try to be one of the nicey-nice types that reaches out to them and shows that not everyone here is that bad. Maybe you can review the threads where people are warning each other about us and recommend what we can do to avoid reinforcing that belief. I know it has been discussed, with examples given, I just don't see it. Most here are pretty helpful and friendly (yes, I remember this is why you, amongst others, are confused about the reputation we have). Anytime you bring together individuals you will have those that do or say things others disagree with, and sometimes you will get people agreeing on things. This is not elitism, it is discussion.

I have had a lot of negativity and hate thrown my way (usually in person) for reasons I still don't know, and sometimes for trying to help people out or being friendly or honest. I grew tired of trying to figure out what I was doing wrong or make people view me differently. You do have a point about this being the official forum, so I suppose it is worth trying to fix the reputation...I just don't understand why someone would let someone else tell them how others view them or how they will be treated without finding out on their own. Sounds kinda childish.

 

[SNESFAN]

 

[rygD]

What did the lemon claim is his reason for not being able to find a female?
Yeah, I think that really sums it all up pretty well.