rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
Reminds me of this: http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html
GPD WIN 2
- Thread starter vcoleiro1
- Start date
I gotta admit: im not as active here as id like to be.
But i keep following the stalker, which actually brought me here.
The device you use may play different roles for you. What's that supposed to mean?
Most of the time we want that device to simply work in terms of an end-user-device. Games and software need to run properly. And thats about it.
If you are a developer you need to work in a different mindset and your device needs to meet the requirements.
Most of Apple's customers are totally satisfied with their devices.
In comparison to standard pc apple restricts the bandwidth of available hardware and thus makes sure that their shit runs smoothly pretty much everywhere (as long as you got the required hardware). End-users are fine with inherent limitations as long as it runs smoothly, which it does. Devs are fine with inherent limitations because the available dev tools are really nice and your own shit runs better on a limited set of hardware.
As an avid apple user i hate the inherent limitations because i know what the systems (software + hardware) are capable of and apple dictates how i should use mine. I srsly can't stand it.
From my own end-user point of view the PND system is pretty much perfect. It's a real "plug'n'play" deployment system with optimized and preconfigured software. I never had any serious issues with a PND package. If i need to customize something i just can. The point that ppl who want to just don't know how to is not the PND system's fault.
From my own dev point of view the PND system is pretty much advanced for its use case and once you got the hang of it it's just awesome. Deploying software this way is just simple and functional. Its so much easier to get your software to the user than using App Store or google play.
But i keep following the stalker, which actually brought me here.
The device you use may play different roles for you. What's that supposed to mean?
Most of the time we want that device to simply work in terms of an end-user-device. Games and software need to run properly. And thats about it.
If you are a developer you need to work in a different mindset and your device needs to meet the requirements.
Most of Apple's customers are totally satisfied with their devices.
In comparison to standard pc apple restricts the bandwidth of available hardware and thus makes sure that their shit runs smoothly pretty much everywhere (as long as you got the required hardware). End-users are fine with inherent limitations as long as it runs smoothly, which it does. Devs are fine with inherent limitations because the available dev tools are really nice and your own shit runs better on a limited set of hardware.
As an avid apple user i hate the inherent limitations because i know what the systems (software + hardware) are capable of and apple dictates how i should use mine. I srsly can't stand it.
From my own end-user point of view the PND system is pretty much perfect. It's a real "plug'n'play" deployment system with optimized and preconfigured software. I never had any serious issues with a PND package. If i need to customize something i just can. The point that ppl who want to just don't know how to is not the PND system's fault.
From my own dev point of view the PND system is pretty much advanced for its use case and once you got the hang of it it's just awesome. Deploying software this way is just simple and functional. Its so much easier to get your software to the user than using App Store or google play.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Not sure the GPD Win2 can be claimed as the world's smallest all-in-one PC. The Pandora is slightly less wide than the Win 1 and slightly less deep according to stats from wikipedia, and the GPD Win 2 is even bigger I thought (largely because of the larger screen). It's almost certainly less deep than the Pandora, but is it thinner than the Win 1?
Alperoot
Welcome! Welcome to Airstrip 17.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2015
- Messages
- 642
Well, I'm pretty sure there were smaller PDA's back in the 00's. The thing is, assuming the Pyra is out, there's not really that much of a market for the Pandora, other than economical reasons. But, well, maybe the Pyra is smaller than the GPD Win 2? I really don't know the size of the Pyra, and I've obviously never seen a Pyra prototype irl.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Yeah, but a PDA != a PC, so I didn't count those. There were handheld PCs from HP back in the 386/early 486 era ISTR, but I've no idea how big they were, but I tend to assume they were bigger accommodating space for AA batteries and probably made out of thru-hole components. The HP200LX seems to have very similar dimensions to the devices under consideration though.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Yes, if you discount previous generations of things, although the GPD Win 1 is still readily available from new stock for the time being. But yeah, it was only a minor quibble against the title screen of his video really, and I know GPD don't have much editorial control over these videos if any.
ckblackm
Very Active Member
You'd be hard pressed to find one smaller than the Sharp Zaurus Series. I've still got an SL-C3200.
Let me just say this much. the gpdwin 2 definitely makes me second-guess my purchase of the pyra. It's taken a very long time to get off of the ground and now the omap in it is seeming like the relic that the current pandora's cpu is. If the win2 is for a similar price I will go with it simply because I get better performance and it's out now. Not years from now and also not hampered by performance. It's also x86 meaning almost all games will run on it in some form from the windows platform.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Yes, that's true if you run Windows on it, and don't care about the things the Pyra has the Win2 doesn't (cellular data, barometer, accelerometers, rumble, full sized SD slots x 2, probably other stuff I forget right now). But if you were to buy one and put Linux on it so that you don't have to suffer windows spyware, and general modern windows un-user-friendliness, you're more limited. Linux steam and gog linux releases do help, but the last game I paid actual money for on Linux I can't actually run on any of my machines because the OpenGL level expressed by my graphics cards isn't new enough. Never had that problem on my Pandora even for software released some 7 years after the device was released, and don't expect to on my upcoming Pyra either, thanks to the amazing community.
The GPD Win 2 is an awesome device, but it's not for me personally. If ED had decided not to make the Pyra because the GPD Win/2 was announced, I guess I might spend more money on consoles and games. But I probably wouldn't visit these boards nearly as often any more.
The GPD Win 2 is an awesome device, but it's not for me personally. If ED had decided not to make the Pyra because the GPD Win/2 was announced, I guess I might spend more money on consoles and games. But I probably wouldn't visit these boards nearly as often any more.
DougOnEarth
Member
- Joined
- May 11, 2013
- Messages
- 74
Win2 don't have backlit keyboard...
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
Thinner than Pandora but significantly wider, I think. I can check mine side by side later to confirm. There were some made by other companies as well. Not sure if any of those were smaller than the early HP LX series.
crazyhorse
Newbie
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2009
- Messages
- 366
Its like the speccie vs c64 all over again! You can't blame ED for defending his baby, i think they will be both be great machines.
Eight Bit
Hardcore Member
C64 vs MSX it was in my class back in the 80's
except that I have a cell phone so there's literally _zero_ reason to pay another data bill. Incase you've forgotten the cell chip in the pyra is one for people outside of the US where I live GSM is shit and sure it has LTE but really, do you think that _american_ companies are going to let you use a pyra on their networks?
Second the sd card slots? Big deal that's not a huge thing that really matters to literally anyone. The gpdwin has a sd card slot and a m.2 slot too so it has storage options. Next up of course I'm not running spyware10 on the thing. That's a waste of time and money. Next up when is the pyra going to be released? Next year? The year after? It's been over 2 years now from what I can remember since it's supposed to be happening. And as time passes the old decrepit soc that they're using gets even weaker and weaker compared with more modern socs.
Finally the price of the pandora is very high. Yes it was definitely worth it when it was first announced. It had an older than I would've liked SOC but oh well. It'd be worth it. But as time passes it becomes less and less worth it. By the time the thing's released there'll probably be a gpdwin3 out and the pyra will still be shipping with an soc that's really old and has very very weak performance. Yes it is good enough but with the way the web's going it's not going to last for long. Also for newer console emulation it's not going to work at all.
Edit: One of the only things that'd make me reconsider this is for ED to talk about the costs of a cpu replacement board and start the prototyping of that and keep the overall costs low. Plus 4GiB standard. As it stands the thing won't be the many many year use device that I was expecting. It's ~700USD for the thing which is the same as the gpdwin2 and the preorder they were going to be ~600USD(if the 1k usd is true for post preorder they're not going to sell at all) so for 100USD less I can get a more modern soc that's going to last me longer. Plus according to the TOS from micorosoft I can get a refund for the license cost of the OS. This being china it's probably only going to be 10-15USD but still that's more money back in my pocket.
Plus the win2 has 8GiB of ram, the pyra has 4GiB only if you pay an extra ~50USD and it's still not been fully fixed just theoretically fixed.
Last edited:
ible
professional vim user
my goodness... you've certainly got me thinking... why am i waiting for linux to be a first-class citizen OOTB, for a device that will have a 10+ year lifespan, when i could buy something that will obsolete itself in 2 years, when Win3 comes along?
oh right, linux doesn't need the latest and greatest processor to be sleek and fast. but if you don't want data, you can buy a Pyra without data. GSM isn't crap where i've lived in the US (i'm on t-mobile), but i am concerned about the network letting me put a pyra on it. i'll maybe have to go bug people in person, but i'll let the community know.
and i'll probably try to buy a pyra 2GB wifi-only one for a family member eventually...
oh right, linux doesn't need the latest and greatest processor to be sleek and fast. but if you don't want data, you can buy a Pyra without data. GSM isn't crap where i've lived in the US (i'm on t-mobile), but i am concerned about the network letting me put a pyra on it. i'll maybe have to go bug people in person, but i'll let the community know.
and i'll probably try to buy a pyra 2GB wifi-only one for a family member eventually...
The strong point of the Pyra was never the CPU. Even when development started, there were faster ones available already.
The Pyra is being planned as an upgradable BASE system. The reason for that?
Well, we had to reinvent the wheel. The Pandora was nice, but the whole system has been developed around the OMAP3.
Using a new processor means a full redesign - and you can clearly see with the Pyra what that means if you've got a small development team involved (and not a multi-billion-dollar company like GPD), it takes a LOT of time!
That's why it's important to get the first unit right, so upgrades can be done a lot faster.
The main idea of the Pyra is still to have a good and usable base system, as open as possible (hardware and software-wise). It should be easily moddable and hackable (add a camera, etc.).
The main goal is NOT (and never was) to have to the fastest device available.
The case design files, schematics, etc. will all be opened up.
Want to change the case for some mods? Sure, change the design and print it.
Another thing that's important for me is the removable battery, for example.
AND the quality of the battery.
Mind you, there are Pandora batteries produced 2008 that haven't even lost capacity yet. Most of the ones from 2013 all still work like fresh new ones.
Whereas I already have quite a few customers complaining that the GPD Win which is only a year old have lost a lot of capacity already (or the battery even grew in size).
And GPD hasn't figured out a way yet how to send me replacement batteries for the customers...
If it's similar with the GPD Win 2, then it could very well be you can't really use it for more than 2 years.
We don't know yet, but it could happen.
The batteries for the Pyra have been produced by the same company as the ones for the Pandora.
The GPD Win2 is a powerful pocket computer, yes, and I guess there's no one here who denies it will simply kick Pyras' ass in terms of power.
But when it comes hacker friendlyness, openness, flexibility, etc., the Pyra easily kicks the GPD Win 2 away.
It all depends on what you're interested in and what you're planning to do with it
The Pyra is being planned as an upgradable BASE system. The reason for that?
Well, we had to reinvent the wheel. The Pandora was nice, but the whole system has been developed around the OMAP3.
Using a new processor means a full redesign - and you can clearly see with the Pyra what that means if you've got a small development team involved (and not a multi-billion-dollar company like GPD), it takes a LOT of time!
That's why it's important to get the first unit right, so upgrades can be done a lot faster.
The main idea of the Pyra is still to have a good and usable base system, as open as possible (hardware and software-wise). It should be easily moddable and hackable (add a camera, etc.).
The main goal is NOT (and never was) to have to the fastest device available.
The case design files, schematics, etc. will all be opened up.
Want to change the case for some mods? Sure, change the design and print it.
Another thing that's important for me is the removable battery, for example.
AND the quality of the battery.
Mind you, there are Pandora batteries produced 2008 that haven't even lost capacity yet. Most of the ones from 2013 all still work like fresh new ones.
Whereas I already have quite a few customers complaining that the GPD Win which is only a year old have lost a lot of capacity already (or the battery even grew in size).
And GPD hasn't figured out a way yet how to send me replacement batteries for the customers...
If it's similar with the GPD Win 2, then it could very well be you can't really use it for more than 2 years.
We don't know yet, but it could happen.
The batteries for the Pyra have been produced by the same company as the ones for the Pandora.
The GPD Win2 is a powerful pocket computer, yes, and I guess there's no one here who denies it will simply kick Pyras' ass in terms of power.
But when it comes hacker friendlyness, openness, flexibility, etc., the Pyra easily kicks the GPD Win 2 away.
It all depends on what you're interested in and what you're planning to do with it
I can't stress enough how important removable batteries and high quality batteries are. I guess we all have had a lot of different mobile devices, including several laptops and know the consequences that a non-removeable battery as well as out-of-stock batteries come with. Therefore kudos for the Pandora/Pyra for doing it better.
Bad battery quality and lack of battery supply for customers is a big turn off that GPD should improve. It doesn't help that they have 2 batteries in their unit now, even though it's a neat feature
Bad battery quality and lack of battery supply for customers is a big turn off that GPD should improve. It doesn't help that they have 2 batteries in their unit now, even though it's a neat feature
