Got displays, looking for keymats

[Saber]

I have absolutely no idea what is feasible for mass production, so I can't filter any ideas based on viability. As most here, I could keep silent instead of throwing ideas that may or may not be viable. Which would you prefer?

I don't know the exact reason as well.

All I can do is to make some more suggestions and that's it.

Can't you tiptoe into ED's office when he's out getting his late morning mocha latte with extra foam and sneak a peak at the Pyra schematics?

 

[N3Cr0]

I just loaded some case parts in Blender and came along with some brilliant ideas.

Then I noticed the problem: The upper case part (see keyboard.stl).

There might be a shaft for the triggers, as it is still on the bottom part. This is not possible to manufacture because there is a hollow space above it.

Screw that post!

There seems to be an option, but we need an additional separator part.

So this is the initial situation:



First, we have to turn the shaft into a hole, cut down the screw hole on the right and add some notches in the corners.



Then there is the separator. which holds the shoulder buttons. It also has two holes for restricting the button's movement.



This is what it looks from another view. Keep in mind, I haven't redesigned the buttons, but they have to be. The notch in the upper case shell (keyboard.stl) has to be increased a little bit.



EDIT:

Maybe I forgot about the Mainboard. -.-

 

[fusion_power]

Wow, you really can make usage of this polygon mess, not bad. I have not found a way to manipulate anything in these files besides auto removin all the double vertics.  It also seems the .stl files are not really precise, look at the side view and you will see that the entire backside of the Pandora is not straight verticaly. Well, OK maybe this is also onto the real case but I never noticed that. ^^"

 

[N3Cr0]

Wow, you really can make usage of this polygon mess, not bad. I have not found a way to manipulate anything in these files besides auto removin all the double vertics.  It also seems the .stl files are not really precise, look at the side view and you will see that the entire backside of the Pandora is not straight verticaly. Well, OK maybe this is also onto the real case but I never noticed that. ^^"

Yes, I noticed it's not straight. I guess it's more a feature than a bug.

Anyway, my idea fails at the point where the upper shaft for the button is. There is the main board.

Maybe there is a way to lead this part around the main board, so that the shaft is on top of it. However, I'm not sure if the plastic is strong enough and if it's even possible to mold it.

 

[N3Cr0]

Sorry for double post, but

Problem solved!

We cut the upper shaft and make a hole inside.



Now, the shaft sits inside the upper shoulder button.

It also has a notch for the main board.

And here with the board inserted, displayed transparent.

 

[Grench]

Wouldn't it be easier to have a 1 layer circuit board with two key landing zones on it and a pair of real buttons (like the 4 game buttons) held vertically on in the back corner of the case and connected with 3 wires +,+,- connected back to the main board?

I.e. each shoulder button would have it's own 1 cm x 1.5 cm board.  They could be the same part side to side - connecting them to the main should be pretty easy...?

 

[fusion_power]

Yes, I noticed it's not straight. I guess it's more a feature than a bug.

True, maybe it is because of easier mold release of these parts or so. I watched closer and indeed, the sides of the real Pandora are also not straight. So the files are correct, fascinating, never noticed this before. ^^Maybe you already did it but if not a little comfort improvement: "remove doubles" function in blender will significant decrease the poly count of the 3D models. So many double vertics, wow. And Blender hang up when I tried to convert tris to quad faces of the complete Pandora model by the way. XD

 

[N3Cr0]

Wouldn't it be easier to have a 1 layer circuit board with two key landing zones on it and a pair of real buttons (like the 4 game buttons) held vertically on in the back corner of the case and connected with 3 wires +,+,- connected back to the main board?

I.e. each shoulder button would have it's own 1 cm x 1.5 cm board.  They could be the same part side to side - connecting them to the main should be pretty easy...?

 That sounds easy, but keep in mind that the space is very limited. I'm not sure how to fit that in. AFAIK the size of the main board seems to be fixed, the case as well.

Yes, I noticed it's not straight. I guess it's more a feature than a bug.

True, maybe it is because of easier mold release of these parts or so. I watched closer and indeed, the sides of the real Pandora are also not straight. So the files are correct, fascinating, never noticed this before. ^^
Maybe you already did it but if not a little comfort improvement: "remove doubles" function in blender will significant decrease the poly count of the 3D models. So many double vertics, wow. And Blender hang up when I tried to convert tris to quad faces of the complete Pandora model by the way. XD

I worked with less comfort. I kept the faces, if possible.

But I selected the vertices with the paint tool (press [C]; LMB → select; MMB → deselect). That makes it easy to handle.

 

[WizardStan]

Wow, you really can make usage of this polygon mess, not bad

Blender has a "decimate" modifier that comes in very handy when a model has way more polygons then it practically needs.

 

[Askarus]

EvilDragon and I were doing some 3D editing today.

Result: It's nearly impossible to make 2 Shoulder buttons above each other which are well usable and can easily be mass produced.

There are so many things you have to modify to make it fit.

Side by side is the better solution.

I also noticed my fingers are thinner than average.

For me it`s a lot easier to press those small second pair of shoulder buttons than for ED.

I also tried the NeoGeoX again wit the buttons side by side.

It did work a lot better than did expect.

For what I've seen today it's the better way to place the buttons side by side.

It is possible to place the buttons above each other but I think it's too risky.

It might increase production cost and I can't guarantee it will be a nice feeling while playing.

 

[Binky]

Does that mean we can have indicator lights along the hinge, as that pandora does?

 

[Askarus]

Does that mean we can have indicator lights along the hinge, as that pandora does?

On the Pyra demo board there are two (RGB). Each on one side.

Don't know what's the LED plan at the moment.

But there are other things that might be done with that are if it's not i use any more.

As we need to cool down the processor I'm thinking of an heat sink there.

Let's make some small metal plates there and connect the Processor directly to it.

Here we have quite some area for a small heat sink. (Maybe on both sides. depending on the LCD cable)

That way you can increase the area inside the case gust by making some metal pillars in an unused room.

Don't know if it will work but it's worth a try I think.

 

[fusion_power]

I worked with less comfort. I kept the faces, if possible.


But I selected the vertices with the paint tool (press [C]; LMB → select; MMB → deselect). That makes it easy to handle.

Some day I should learn the current Blender version, I still use the old v2.49 because the newer ones are so completely different. I know the new interface makes alot of things easier but I guess I was to lazy so far.

Blender has a "decimate" modifier that comes in very handy when a model has way more polygons then it practically needs.

Have to try this, tanks for the tip. I only used the opposite modifier "subdivide" so far, didn't even knew there is also an decimate one. ^^"

EvilDragon and I were doing some 3D editing today.


Result: It's nearly impossible to make 2 Shoulder buttons above each other which are well usable and can easily be mass produced.


There are so many things you have to modify to make it fit.


Side by side is the better solution.


I also noticed my fingers are thinner than average.


For me it`s a lot easier to press those small second pair of shoulder buttons than for ED.


I also tried the NeoGeoX again wit the buttons side by side.


It did work a lot better than did expect.


For what I've seen today it's the better way to place the buttons side by side.


It is possible to place the buttons above each other but I think it's too risky.


It might increase production cost and I can't guarantee it will be a nice feeling while playing.

 

[N3Cr0]

[…]

Let's make some small metal plates there and connect the Processor directly to it.

Here we have quite some area for a small heat sink. (Maybe on both sides. depending on the LCD cable)

That way you can increase the area inside the case gust by making some metal pillars in an unused room.

Don't know if it will work but it's worth a try I think.

I know it would increase the production costs, but I think the heat sink should be part of the case - maybe the whole bottom shell.

 

[Grench]

EvilDragon and I were doing some 3D editing today.


Result: It's nearly impossible to make 2 Shoulder buttons above each other which are well usable and can easily be mass produced.


There are so many things you have to modify to make it fit.


Side by side is the better solution.


I also noticed my fingers are thinner than average.


For me it`s a lot easier to press those small second pair of shoulder buttons than for ED.


I also tried the NeoGeoX again wit the buttons side by side.


It did work a lot better than did expect.


For what I've seen today it's the better way to place the buttons side by side.


It is possible to place the buttons above each other but I think it's too risky.


It might increase production cost and I can't guarantee it will be a nice feeling while playing.

Side by side is going to annoy some people who intend to put two fingers on the back triggers - likely the same folks who think they're going to touch type on the keyboard.   (Folks with REALLY small hands.)


Side by side is an option - but may I make an alternate suggestion since we're now talking about 2 buttons per side for one finger per side to control?


How about a vertical split rocker switch?  No flapping paddles - actual over/under formed switch caps.


From a profile view of the back it would look something like:

|


-/   <= Top key


/


\


-\  <= Bottom key


|


(Compressed to the height of the back of the Pyra of course.)


Normally a rocker switch would have 3 positions, up, neutral and down.  By splitting it into two actual switches there is up, neutral, down, Up & down together.


One finger can control all 4 positions.


At rest = neutral


Roll up (press upper) = Up


Roll down (press down) = Down


Mash finger onto both = Up/Down together


Dissected, it's actually 2 buttons spaced very close together with slanted tops.  Heck, they could even be round and still work - just like the 4+2 action buttons do.


The testing boards I've seen appear to have two small switches in that position, one over the other.  Would this idea work?  It might be difficult to limit the press and put comfortable pressure to un-press without having a little 2 button key mat in there though.

Any thoughts?

 

[EvilDragon]

You cannot put two fingers at the back unless you're a two year old kid, maybe. Try to comfortably squeeze two fingers at the back of an opened Pandora...

 

[Saber]

You cannot put two fingers at the back unless you're a two year old kid, maybe. Try to comfortably squeeze two fingers at the back of an opened Pandora...

Side by side shoulder buttons would be alright in my book.

Fundamentally, the problem though with Askarus's mod here with it's ultra slim contoured triggers could be improved upon if you don't pile them on top of one another. The fix would be to have L1 and R1 stay rectangular lengthwise about the same as they are on the Pandora(maybe wrapped underneath more like the 3DS XL triggers to make them stronger against bumps and drops) and L2 and R2 become shorter in length and more squarish in shape up the backside above L1/R1. A rectangle(L1) with a square above it(L2). 

 

[erico]

Wow, you really can make usage of this polygon mess, not bad

Blender has a "decimate" modifier that comes in very handy when a model has way more polygons then it practically needs.

Freecad opens that kind of file and from there maybe you can export a better model.

 

[comradekingu]

A round innermost button to press with the tip of the finger, and a plunge style one on the outer edge for pushing with the inner joint of the pointy finger.

 

[Askarus]

You cannot put two fingers at the back unless you're a two year old kid, maybe.

I can ....

But as Pandra is not designed for it it does not feel well.

It's because of the form factor.

It needs a whole different form to have two fingers on the backside.