Do Software Bounties Work?

[DaveC]

I have heard from time to time people suggesting setting up a bounty for some software that is lacking/missing on the GP2X.

My question is do they work? Do developers get more motivated by money to work on/update projects or not? Maybe they only work on stuff that they like to and $100.00 or so does nothing. I have not heard much either way though.

There are a few things like decent PC-Engine or faster SNES etc. that may be a possibility for a bounty. I have not seen them used here but I heard they have been used in other scenes.

 

[icurafu]

Another question is. Has a developer ever received money for a completed bounty? I imagine lots of pledges would not be met.

 

[DaveC]

I remember the community did donate to get a dev here a unit as he couldn't afford one. We wanted the emu he wrote and he said he would port it if he had one. We pledged then followed through.

I am just wondering how much devs are motivated (or not) by money.

 

[Reesy]

The amount of money usually pledged is peanuts when compared to the amount of time spent working on an emulator. Imagine you were paying by the hour for someone to work on an emulator. It took my nearly 2 years to get DrMD to a decent state, at the begining I was working 8 hours today ( when not at work etc ). I hate to think how many hours of my free time I pumped into that emulator, can you imagine how much that would have cost if I was payed by the hour.

Most devs ( apart from the youngsters of course ) have good jobs and earn decent money, so a very small amount of dosh is not going to be very much incentive to start a new project.

Saying that if a dev already has a project on the go which happens to meet the basic requirements of a bounty then I imagine that they would probably just ensure that all requirements in the bounty were met and then pick the bounty up later, everybody needs a little more beer money after all.

Getting devs equipment to work on does work. Zektor donated a Gizmondo to me and low and behold DrMD was ported to the Gizmondo. I could never justify buying a new toy but if someone gives you the new hardware then you don't have to worry.

Reesy

 

[Exophase]

I agree with Reesy.

But if you want to pledge money for PC-Engine be my guest, it's almost at release state anyway. I can pretend you motivated me...

 

[Parkydr]

I don't find bounties motivate me, I work on what I find interesting or something I'm interested in.

Developing for the GP2X is a hobby, I don't want to spend my free time working on something that I don't particularly enjoy just for the money (that's what work is for ).

Of course if the bounty was large enough, I might be able to work up some enthusiasm

QUOTE
Another question is. Has a developer ever received money for a completed bounty?


Not in my case.

I have received donations for other things I've done, they've always been a surprise and very much appreciated - thank you guys. Unexpected donations are always more satisfying than expected bounties.

I don't find bounties motivate me, I work on what I find interesting or something I'm interested in.

Developing for the GP2X is a hobby, I don't want to spend my free time working on something that I don't particularly enjoy just for the money (that's what work is for ).

Of course if the bounty was large enough, I might be able to work up some enthusiasm

QUOTE
Another question is. Has a developer ever received money for a completed bounty?


Not in my case.

I have received donations for other things I've done, they've always been a surprise and very much appreciated - thank you guys. Unexpected donations are always more satisfying than expected bounties.

 

[ledow]

From a user's point of view:

I don't think software bounties work at all... for ages I considered setting one up for features I wanted in various projects that I'm in love with - OpenTTD, Freesco (a single-floppy-linux-router project that really died several years ago) etc. Note that I used to do a lot of coding, so I have some knowledge of the work involved in any particular request. But hardly anyone takes you up on them and when they do it's usually so long after you initially set up the bounty that you regret doing it - by then you don't want the feature, have moved onto something else or just plain don't have the money any more.

Having said that, I'm a big fan of the Shareware concept, for those that "need" to earn money. Once a project is complete, and it's useful and I find myself using it a lot, I will gladly pay money - especially if that gets me something "extra" (although I don't agree in crippling the shareware versions in order to do that), or gets me a say in what parts are upgraded/changed/implemented next. I always try to register the software that I use a lot and "donate" to completed projects that I fall in love with. At the moment, I have a list of about twenty projects that I know I "should" give a small donation to, but can't afford to at the moment. I've even put them on my Christmas list before now but people don't understand the concept so they avoid them and buy something "physical".

I have a registered version of Z80, the Spectrum emulator from the DOS days, which even gets you the sourcecode (but you're not allowed to re-distribute it) and all sorts of utilities to help you convert tape->tap (in those days, freeware versions of such utils were hard to come by and quite unreliable). I have a registered version of Slicks 'n' Slides because, back in the DOS days, me and my schoolmates teamed up to buy it because we'd always be playing the shareware version (if I remember, I paid for the game and a friend who had a job in the Post Office "paid" for the postage to Finland... nobody else contributed!). For that you got a level editor, if I remember correctly. I have a registered version of all the games from www.windowsgames.co.uk (Slay, etc.) because they were just fun games and I ended up playing the shareware versions time after time, so I bought the full version of everything he had (twice, actually, because I bought them again a few years later for my wife). They were a reasonable price and I bought them to recognise a job well done.

It just seems much more sensible to me to reward good work than to offer potential money to anything that just slips in under your criteria, unless you are VERY particular about your criteria. Usually, then, nobody wants to work at something that's so heavily specified.

If you say "£10 for a SNES emulator", you'll get a very, very poor, buggy, hard to control SNES emulator and you'll be obliged to pay it. If you say "£100 for a SNES emulator that runs 90% of all SNES games, is demonstrably stable, runs all games at least 60fps, includes save-states, menu loading etc." then nobody will even look twice because the level of entry means that you must already have had that project in development for YEARS beforehand. By that time, most people KNOW that you are making one and will withdraw their bounties.

I don't think programmers can live off software bounties, no matter how good they are. I don't think they enjoy working towards them and if they do work towards them, it's only because they would have done the work for free anyway. I'm not so sure that it wouldn't work for "bugfix bounties" or "feature bounties", though. If a piece of software already exists but has an annoying bug, or is missing a feature that others have, a bounty for THAT author to implement it would be much more welcomed, from my experience. You know, £5 if you add SRAM saving to your emulator, £10 if you fix the F-200 compatibility on that piece of software that you let languish etc. I think that they are much more likely to succeed. And because you have a particular coder in mind before you start, you can negotiate a price, and have some certainty of trust in that if they say they will do it, they will do it.

 

[gavie]

I don't think programmers can live off software bounties, no matter how good they are. I don't think they enjoy working towards them and if they do work towards them, it's only because they would have done the work for free anyway.

I agree, but I think a little money afterwards (when the product already has been made) is a nice way to show your appreciation, and I think it's a better motivation for a new product (or updates) than giving something when nothing has been made yet.

 

[cowai]

Donation isn't paying, but a way of saying thanks, don't you agree?

 

[skeezix]

I've always said that bounties don't work per se; as above .. real devs are used to being paid a good dollar-per-hour, so pennies-per-hour is really just a waste of everyones time.

That said, some people need that edge (There is some evidence online.. one guy was making a 'you pay, we'll do your research' service, where people would ask questions and pay, and he'd have site where people (usually poor foreigns) would answer for pennies on the essay. He found out that in fact, some large %age of his high quality responses were coming from well off locals, who just wanted to help and enjoyed getting a pittance as a thank you.)

Anyway,..

I was one who received a gp2x since I couldn't cover it at the time, and of course I've tried to pay for it with OutCaST and BattleJewels and some other things, and helkping folks out when I could. (I hope that was enough so far!)

I see that differently.. that was an enabler; I wanted a gp2x and to do my part, but couldn't justify it, so the communities out reach there enabled, and thus I coudl deliver at all.

The problem there is.. people also sent devices (or were they gp32s?) to GBA devs I remember to get them to build SNES emus and such, and got no where (just out of pocket.)

So..

Enablers -- sometimes works (those who want to help, but cannot), and sometimes doesn't (cold calls)

Donations -- a nice to have at the end; thats more for devs who've made something, and you feel a donation is nice. Different than bounty, since bounty is.. dev comes in with cash on his mind

Bounty -- for a new dev to the scene, it might be the wrong message.. since we're a happy helpful scene, nto one founded on cash. But if it produces results that you wish, fine, right? You'd have to find the right dev, maybe someone reliable.. almost contract it out in the wording of the bounty.. deliver X up front, X at completion, or something? I dunno.. sounds fishy to me

*Shrug*

The problem is more likely that there aren't enough GP2X devvers around foer what you want, so you need to grow that population, rather than trying to refocus the population.

(And the population is smaller than you trhink.. there are those who only work on their own projects because thats their interest, or they lack skills to write an emu from scratch; there are those who can only optimize an existing emu, and so on. The population to write a new emu is _very_ small since it is a huge work, and highly specialized/difficult, butI would think the optimizer of existing work is a medium size.. any good C coder could tackle it likely..)

But I'm just rambling from sleep dep.

Did I add anything useful?

I at least wanted to say thanks to everyone, again, for the gp2x. I hope I've made it worth it

jeff

 

[sparr]

As a starving artis^H^H^H^H^H^H coder, bounties are always interesting to me. Sure, a $100 bounty on a 100+ man-hour project is silly, but I have seen $25 bounties on <1 hour patches and such. Someone posted a perfect-for-gp2x-porting rogue-alike in the wishes section earlier, if there was a reasonable bounty on that then I would jump on the opportunity.

 

[Game_over]

I agree with your point Reesy, however what about those youngsters. I can see people my age (22) from the starving college student class sees bounties as pretty good incentives. Its honestly a matter of coincidence and circumstances; Some one may have to program an app and present it in school as a final, if they get a preview build up, they may come accross a bounty and may give them incentive to at least go beta. Thats just an example. But that also brings up the question how far along does a project have to be before one can receive a bounty. Frankly, hardly any of the project this community produced is finished. We work in iteration. But again, this is chump change for does who are capable of doing it, and a worthy task with incentive for young hobbyist and people who are in need of a project to at least get to the preview stage.

-There are some wholes in my statement that needs to be filled, I am in a rush as I type this, will edit later.

 

[skeezix]

Maybe numbers are needed.

What sort of bnountieds are real incentives?

$5?
$10?
$20?
$50?

jeff

 

[dcpmark]

I offered a $100 bounty, payable through PayPal, for a frontend that can show all games in all emulators and launch any game, regardless of emulator. Some people offered to add to the bounty, but no one took me up on it. I don't remember how much it got up to....

 

[Sphinxter]

$65 an hour is an incentive, less than $1000 for a project taking over 24 hours is not. Tipping on the other hand is a sign of real class and I'm sure $100 or less is greatly appreciated by someone who happens to produce something you like. Really makes your day. Feels real good too, go ahead do it and see.

 

[DaveC]

I agree with Reesy.

But if you want to pledge money for PC-Engine be my guest, it's almost at release state anyway. I can pretend you motivated me...

Always the smart ass

Well in that case I would donate for it after release if it is good (I imagine it is).

It seems that is the consensus is that donating for something done is better.

It seems by the responses bounties don't work for most, but do for a very few. That is understandable.

If a bounty was made for something it would probably be best if everyone that wanted said item pledged together to get a more sizeable amount.

 

[christo930]

I have heard from time to time people suggesting setting up a bounty for some software that is lacking/missing on the GP2X.

My question is do they work? Do developers get more motivated by money to work on/update projects or not? Maybe they only work on stuff that they like to and $100.00 or so does nothing. I have not heard much either way though.

There are a few things like decent PC-Engine or faster SNES etc. that may be a possibility for a bounty. I have not seen them used here but I heard they have been used in other scenes.

I am not a developer, but from what I have heard, at least for younger developers still in school would be bragging rights. Another motivation might be to accomplish something thats very difficult or many people think is impossible. Many do it because they enjoy it. I would imagine some do it for the resume'. Some do it because they want that software and decide to do it themselves. But I seriously doubt that money is the motivator for someone is going to release the final product as freeware.

I would really like a workable pc emulator for the GP2X., So say I promise that the first dev who puts out a pc emulator for the gp2x that meets certain criteria and, I even go as far as putting the bounty in trust for that purpose and have it managed by a 3rd party assuring the dev that they will get it, will win some monetary prize. Can I really put up enough money to make it financially worth it to the developer to invest the time to do it?

Maybe if a number of people pledged to buy the software at a particular price point might make a difference, but I just don't think that small amounts of money motivate a developer to release freeware. Hardware donations often work for ports as Reesey pointed out, but thats a far cry from building from scratch.

Chris

I agree with Reesy.

But if you want to pledge money for PC-Engine be my guest, it's almost at release state anyway. I can pretend you motivated me...

Is it as good as the gp32 one was? Can it play bonk (the gp32 one couldn't). Any release date? The PC-Engine is the proud gaming system with the absolute best version of Parasol Stars, which is even better than Bubble Bobble (on which it is based, Bub and Bob are the stars). I think it's actually called Parasol Stars The Story of Rainbow Island III. Can't wait.

I think the existing one can play it, but has to be clocked so high as to run the batteries dry very quickly.

Chris

 

[Exophase]

Is it as good as the gp32 one was?

I don't know, I don't have a GP32.

Can it play bonk (the gp32 one couldn't).

Yes, it can play Bonk o_o

Any release date?

No, I don't make release dates.

 

[b._.o._.b]

I will be glad to give 50$ for a fully working MZ800 emulator, but I know that is nothing compared to the hours of work a dev needs to put into it. So I don't expect this to motivate any developer.
If someone came up to me and would ask me if I wanted to earn 50$ and I had to do my daily job in my spare time for a couple of weeks, I would think the guy was nuts. That said, doing something fun in my spare time and earning 50$ could be interesting.

 

[Orkie]

I offered a $100 bounty, payable through PayPal, for a frontend that can show all games in all emulators and launch any game, regardless of emulator. Some people offered to add to the bounty, but no one took me up on it. I don't remember how much it got up to....

Umm... You do realise JyCet's Enexfi can do this? Maybe you could pay up...