Craigix Discloses Information On New Gp2x?

[Dunny]

KeyboardCowboy comes across (to me, at any rate) as someone that really, really wants the best handheld he can get, but sees the awful possiblity that the people making it might be committing to the biggest mistake he can envisage.

In that situation, I myself would probably evangelise my own solution, and to hell with the consequences.

If anything, his structured, reasoned replies have convinced me not to sign up for this. As Rokdcasbah has said, it's better to wait and see what comes out, rather than just pre-order for the launch. If anything, given the history of the 2x itself, it seems to me to be more than prudent to wait for the 2nd revision of the console, once all the huge mistakes have been ironed out. And it certainly seems like there are more than a few of those.

D.

 

[X-Code]

I would love to know absolutely everything about the new machine now, sure that others would too .

But again, it is mostly a secret project codenamed bumblebee ( because they've put yellow and black warning tape around the case and it resembles one ).

It's a shame that it isn't going to have an FPU, but if it's decided, it is decided. I really wish to stress on the design point, this is meant to be a gaming machine with other capabilities... So lets keep it comfortable for sight and hands.

Analog stick... Maybe the DPad could double up as an analog stick depending on how it's designed ( complicated though I guess )... And I don't really think that I'll cry if I don't see an analog one.

I don't think that there is a simple way to avoid glare / reflections when in the sun

Commercial software... I hope none, at least not initially, or it'll probably be bad quality ( unless devs have been playing with the prototypes for quite a while )..

Let's leave the flames ( not aiming at anyone in particular ). This is a very interesting thread, and maybe if we're all a little more patient we'll see more info... Or we could just storm the bunker in which Project BumbleBee is being held hostage :lol:

This thread has showed us all much possible design work and very few tech specs... Patience and beers ( that's my m e d i c a t i o n now B) ).

 

[n8archer_XI]

There is no analog, there is a touch screen for that.

Only if we have a nagging desire to get another DS...

 

[denton_riley]

--------------------------------------------------------
Text Input: Keyboard
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Source: mfk
Quote: It has keyboard and touchscreen. I think it was clear enough from our earlier posts.
Link: http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...044&st=615#

-Guys! awesome well happy it got a keyboard maybe not many people here will appreciate but youll really open up this device to whole new market i and thousands of others are dying for device like this cant wait until it comes out . Pda's are crap ok for office bods emails etc but im an engineer and this be perfect for all my calcs being able to data input easy and use spreadsheets ill finally be able get rid of my psion revo!. Id also be able develop software to connect this up to a total station and edit data on the fly. Of course ill be gaming as well though good work guys

 

[sam fisher]

kc, please stop using the news of a new console design to sneak in your criticisms of the gp2x. if nothing else, it's simply not practical.

but i agree with you that adherence to standards is key. it is the best thing about the gp2x, it has encouraged much of the great software we have. i would also add that it may be as or more important than which SoC is used.

also, the fact that a small minority discovered some ways to bring out more of the gp2x's potential is not as relevant as you make it out to be, since the nature of the gp2x is such that they gladly shared their methods with others.

if you have plans to make commercial software for this then you probably want the documentation complete and you want it early. but why not just wait a bit and see what happens?

The GP2x criticisms must be considered so as not to be repeated in this implementation of a new system that may well suffer for the exact same design flaws as its predecessor!

 

[X-Code]

Sure that no one designing the new system has forgotten the couple of flaws in the GP2X's design.
I want to see the prototype!!!, c'mon craig! ( just another try ) :lol:

 

[DaveC]

Those who talk about the CPU horsepower and other technical specification missed some important functions such as "Dual Display" which will make many things more and more interesting! B)

Dual display? as in running two displays at once? (2xLCD or LCD + TV Out??)
:blink:

Sounds like good news for a VJ


Well we already know it has ONE 800x480 screen. I would guess this means you could maybe display something in the screen while displaying something on the TV.

So maybe if you were playing something on the TV with the device you could have menus or other things displayed on the touchscreen at the same time. Kind of like that GBA to Gamecube type thing.

 

[rokdcasbah]

KeyboardCowboy comes across (to me, at any rate) as someone that really, really wants the best handheld he can get, but sees the awful possiblity that the people making it might be committing to the biggest mistake he can envisage.

In that situation, I myself would probably evangelise my own solution, and to hell with the consequences.

If anything, his structured, reasoned replies have convinced me not to sign up for this. As Rokdcasbah has said, it's better to wait and see what comes out, rather than just pre-order for the launch. If anything, given the history of the 2x itself, it seems to me to be more than prudent to wait for the 2nd revision of the console, once all the huge mistakes have been ironed out. And it certainly seems like there are more than a few of those.

D.

no, what i meant was, if he was going to put together a commercial game, it'd be best not to make big plans until he's sure he can get what he wants out of the hardware. but as a user, waiting until the early adoption wave goes by and doing some research makes plenty of sense as well.

keyboardcowboy comes across to me as being epicenter. and i know a lot of what he says sounds reasonable, but his points often anchor on statements like these:

QUOTE
Given these circumstances, why then is there such ambition to accept any proposed design blindly, seeming to ASK for limitation and compromise, rather than push for a platform that will show tremendous promise from the very start?


which is childish and melodramatic, at best.

that is the last i will say about this, i'd rather the thread didn't get personal (lest certain people start calling other people liars and criminals again...)

 

[DaveC]

I prefer composite rca over S-video. I know quality is not as good. But it's enough for me.
Rca cables seems more cheap than S-video.
All tv have rca video in.
Most tv's have s-video, you need an euroconector/rgb adapter.
Anyway I own a 2 m s-video cable yet...

Perhaps all you have super HDTV. :blink:

Anyway this is a question I don't care much.

The point is if it has S-video out you can get S-video (better quality) AND composite with a cheapo $2.00 adaptor. If it starts out composite it can never get any better. It starts out crap and is always crap, so 1970's. Why ruin it and limit it for everyone because you don't want to spend an extra $2-3? I think there should be a multi-out for RGB,VGA, S-video etc. If not that there should at least be a VGA-out and some sort of a converter box accessory to get the other lower formats.

And yes keyboardcowboy is Epicenter. You can recognise those long rants about SoCs and GP2X flaws anywhere

 

[Eolair]

kc, please stop using the news of a new console design to sneak in your criticisms of the gp2x. if nothing else, it's simply not practical.

but i agree with you that adherence to standards is key. it is the best thing about the gp2x, it has encouraged much of the great software we have. i would also add that it may be as or more important than which SoC is used.

also, the fact that a small minority discovered some ways to bring out more of the gp2x's potential is not as relevant as you make it out to be, since the nature of the gp2x is such that they gladly shared their methods with others.

if you have plans to make commercial software for this then you probably want the documentation complete and you want it early. but why not just wait a bit and see what happens?

The GP2x criticisms must be considered so as not to be repeated in this implementation of a new system that may well suffer for the exact same design flaws as its predecessor!



Here we go again... I seem to remember the same thing being discussed back in the fall of 2005. (Before the release of GP2X). I specifically remember the part about the second processor having no MMU and only 4k+4k cache. So the same seems to be true with the MMSP2+?

If I recall correctly no MMU and only 4k+4k cache meant that the second core didn't have´all the abilities of memory access and such that the main CPU had. And because the second core was not identical to the first and lacked an MMU it wouldn't be recognized as a dual core system by Linux. You had to hand select what to run on the second core, because Linux could not handle it.

I thought it was a bit strange that they were chosing a dual core solution again. But if they're also choosing a dual core solution with the same crippling flaw... Maybe they just have no other options?

Edit: changed for readability

 

[Julius]

So... what are the chances of emulating a DS on this machine?
I mean it has a touchscreen and enought pixels to display both screens on one... and it also has 3D acceleration

Yeah I know DS games are still beeing sold and all that, but besides emulationg the PS1 properly, this is the only high profile gameconsole that would be sort of in reach of this new machine, right?

 

[DaveC]

Here we go again... I seem to remember the same thing being discussed back in the fall of 2005. (Before the release of GP2X). I specifically remember the part about the second processor having no MMU and only 4k+4k cache. So the same seems to be true with the MMSP2+?

If I recall correctly no MMU and only 4k+4k cache meant that the second core didn't have´all the abilities of memory access and such that the main CPU had. And because the second core was not identical to the first and lacked an MMU it wouldn't be recognized as a dual core system by Linux. You had to hand select what to run on the second core, because Linux could not handle it.

I thought it was a bit strange that they were chosing a dual core solution again. But if they're also choosing a dual core solution with the same crippling flaw... Maybe they just have no other options?

I thought that the MMSP2 had an option to give the second core it's own work RAM though? That would have helped alot but GPH decided not to do that, they put in the netchip instead.

Can the MMPS2+ have it's own work RAM as well? Will this new one have this? I think that would help ALOT with bus contention right?

So... what are the chances of emulating a DS on this machine?
I mean it has a touchscreen and enought pixels to display both screens on one... and it also has 3D acceleration

Yeah I know DS games are still beeing sold and all that, but besides emulationg the PS1 properly, this is the only high profile gameconsole that would be sort of in reach of this new machine, right?

Yeah but then you would have to be able to play the unit vertically h34r:

 

[OMars]

So... what are the chances of emulating a DS on this machine?
I mean it has a touchscreen and enought pixels to display both screens on one... and it also has 3D acceleration

Yeah I know DS games are still beeing sold and all that, but besides emulationg the PS1 properly, this is the only high profile gameconsole that would be sort of in reach of this new machine, right?

Yeah but then you would have to be able to play the unit vertically h34r:

Nope. The DS has two 256x192 resolution screens. So, if you multiply 192x2, you get 384. That easily fits on the the 800x480 display that the new system has. Unless, you want the picture to be bigger, then you'll want to view it vertically.

 

[Vimacs]

Yes, the biggest problem with the gp2x was clearly the ram bandwidth when using both cores and not the missing mmu, im sure we wont have that problem his time
First off the mmsp2+ uses ddr ram, fast.
Also they now seem to share 16k TCM(Tight coupled memory, you could call it "l2/3 cache") for quick storing of stuff and probably also communication, that will surely help a lot as well.
We should have fully working DMA now (if MSE isn't stupid) that should also help a lot with streaming things.

and more...

 

[Julius]

Nope. The DS has two 256x192 resolution screens. So, if you multiply 192x2, you get 384. That easily fits on the the 800x480 display that the new system has. Unless, you want the picture to be bigger, then you'll want to view it vertically.

Well it's not perfect, but you could also scale them and put them vertically next to reach other.

 

[rokdcasbah]

We should have fully working DMA now (if MSE isn't stupid) that should also help a lot with streaming things.

yes, i really hope so. even if the mmsp2+ isn't the absolute best solution, it may have to suffice if it's the only viable option. if the memory situation is much improved, then i think as a whole we will see many more projects having larger amounts of success, even compared to the gp2x.

i wonder what the requirements would be to emulate a gp32, without dynamic recompilation or virtualization techniques?

 

[Julius]

Now that I thought about it a bit more... you know what would fucking rock?

A clamshel design (like the DS) with no keyboard but TWO 800x480 screens (both touchscreens, or at least one), where one of the touchscreens could be used as a keyboard easily, and a very minimal space between the screens, so that they are almost one. That would be the slickest design EVAR!!!!111

Ok I guess I am dreaming a bit h34r:

 

[X-Code]

I thought that I was the one drinking the beer Julius, a DS type design with widescreens?... eeek! ( only joking take no offence ) :lol:

I do imagine DS emulation feasible... Only need someone capable of coding the emu I guess, as this new system seems to be powerful enough.


As for gp32... rokdcasbah, dunno if that would be possible, but it would be great

 

[Nova]

I don't get why people are saying that the touchscreen will make an adequate alternative to the analog stick. The most important flaw with this reasoning is that if your thumb is going to be on the screen, how are you going to see what's going on in-game? Of course, you could designate a bit of the screen to this, but that means screen size is drastically reduced.

This idea would work on a DS, but would be stupid on a console with one screen...

 

[techFreak]

By dual display, I didn't mean two LCD screens. We are not making a DS clone. It can display different things on TV and LCD at the same time. Also you can use PIP function.