Craigix Discloses Information On New Gp2x?

[Tobriand]

I must say, incidentally, re: the processor - can we please make sure the documentation is there to start with this time round? The MMSP2 was needlessly tough to find it for because of MagicEyes being awkward, from memory. I wonder if there's any chance they might be more forthcoming this time round?

 

[Exophase]

I must say, incidentally, re: the processor - can we please make sure the documentation is there to start with this time round? The MMSP2 was needlessly tough to find it for because of MagicEyes being awkward, from memory. I wonder if there's any chance they might be more forthcoming this time round?

If they provide good libraries then that won't be necessary, right?

 

[cappuchok]

And ya, AT LEAST s-video please. I would love to see RGB but since us hosers across the pond don't have rgb monitors, component and/or vga would be tight!

If there could be a VGA-out that could output composite sync, perhaps on one of the unused pins (4 or 11) we'd have RGB-SCART almost for free, just need the proper converter cable but no extra circuitry should be needed.

you can also emulate a mouse 1000 times better with an analogue stick making thousands of more games more playable.

I'd take a touchscreen for mouse emulation over an analouge stick any day. Granted, I would mostly use mouse emulation to play ScummVM or UAE.

Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking of - d'oh! That's not exactly Magiceyes alright. Still it can't have been like building linux from the ground up for the MMSP2+... Or is that still not confirmed yet? Is there a chance that Sam might still get that imx31?

Wasn't it Squidge who said the current dev board is running a Linux that wasn't really designed for it? Still, even if it's running a "non-native" Linux, with an unoptimized quick port of a SNES emulator (a port to that "non-native Linux", mind you) it is still getting fullspeed with sound easily.

Anyway, from the sound of things so far and from the perspective of being a "regular" end-user and not a programmer, I think I'll be happy with whatever chip the dev team has chosen and whether it's based on this chip or that chip, won't stop me from buying the device and having lots of fun with it, just as I'm having and will keep having lots of fun with my GP2X.

I'd love to see DJWillis' opinion on this new device though, as ScummVM is one of the projects I'd be most interested in running regularly on it.

 

[techFreak]

I think somebody underestimates the capabilities of MMSP2+ even he never touched one. It's not the only CPU power but we need to choose a SoC which is fun to play. If you want to draw millions of triangels you can do it on your PC. We are trying to design a product which is absolutely "simple" and "fun".

Those who talk about the CPU horsepower and other technical specification missed some important functions such as "Dual Display" which will make many things more and more interesting! B)

 

[X-Code]

If there was no Nintendo, Sony, etc...who would you emulate?

I like Craig's handheld. It allows me to work on polishing up psx4all more so than the constant figuring out ways to inch performance up. Imagine OpenTTD and DOSBox as well. This seems to only be a good natural step up from the GP2X. Don't squash the handheld before it's out.

EDIT: KeyboardCowboy...Where can I get a i.MX31 for less than $30 in "low quantities"? Link? Pricesheet?

Do you have a prototype? ( don't answer, I'm asking everyone these days ) :lol:

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Nice DPad designs, but I do think that it should be one piece, the actual shape could be a star with round bits at the ends ( thinking Sheriff badge-ish...

Gave it a very quick and dirty try, not very star-ish... still looks like a dpad

I think that I'll go and get myself a bucket of coffee before I continue :lol:

EDIT: The hole in the middle is for a small screw-in stick, and the white parts are slightly raised ( could be rubber insets for better grip )

---

Those who talk about the CPU horsepower and other technical specification missed some important functions such as "Dual Display" which will make many things more and more interesting! B)

I like the sounds of that

 

[goobers]

Those who talk about the CPU horsepower and other technical specification missed some important functions such as "Dual Display" which will make many things more and more interesting! B)

Dual display? as in running two displays at once? (2xLCD or LCD + TV Out??)
:blink:

Sounds like good news for a VJ

 

[Squidge]

But if everyone is writing exciting new games, how will davec get his precious emulators

Perhaps he can run them under emulation?

 

[goobers]

But if everyone is writing exciting new games, how will davec get his precious emulators

Perhaps he can run them under emulation?


emulating under emulator emulation? That's just madness! :lol:

 

[Yrx]

For a d-pad, definitely go with something similar to a Genesis/Saturn controller's. Even something like X-Code's "sheriff badge" would be good.

And I seem to be a little late on this one, but if N64's not going to run well, then what else would anyone really need an analog stick for? I suppose if someone managed to make a homebrew FPS, but not much else.

However, if analog were to be considered at all with this, I think the best solution would be an add-on. Sort of like the commercial cradle for the 2X, except just a pair of analog sticks. In at least one of the designs posted earlier, there was a detachable keyboard. If you wanted analog, just pop that off and stick on the dual analog peripheral. B)

 

[cappuchok]

"Dual Display" which will make many things more and more interesting! B)

Oooh nice!

Can't wait until Craig starts taking pre-orders!

 

[KeyboardCowboy]

I think somebody underestimates the capabilities of MMSP2+ even he never touched one. It's not the only CPU power but we need to choose a SoC which is fun to play. If you want to draw millions of triangels you can do it on your PC. We are trying to design a product which is absolutely "simple" and "fun".

Those who talk about the CPU horsepower and other technical specification missed some important functions such as "Dual Display" which will make many things more and more interesting! B)

You might be misunderstanding my point. The MMSP2+ provides enough CPU horsepower for its purpose. In fact, many of my recommendations were for SoCs that had only a 266 MHz ARM926EJ-S processor. The aspect that causes concern is MagicEyes' tendency to implement their SoCs in a nonstandard fashion, and fail to document them fully, or fail to provide the documentation to developers. Instead, they prefer to convince their buyers to use sister companies' services like Dignsys, using a man-in-the-middle to avoid revealing how to operate their SoCs properly. This was the case with numerous aspects of the MMSP2, to include video decoding/encoding hardware and the 2D blitter. GPH was forced to utilize Dignsys to develop their system's firmware due to the relatively small quantity of MMSP2 parts they ordered. This resulted in low-quality software with serious stability, compatibility and user-interface issues.

The aforementioned nonstandard implementation, if a repeat of the MMSP2, could also prevent proper communication between the CPUs and 2D/3D graphics subsystem, resulting in adequate performance (as was the case with the MMSP2). Most notably lack of functional DMA.

If the MMSP2+ is used, it must be verified that such shortcomings do not exist, and that proper libraries and documentation are provided to developers from the very start to alleviate the steep learning curve the MMSP2 caused, which drove away most serious developers of non-emulator apps.

If these criteria are met, the MMSP2+ bears a more elegant implementation than the MMSP2, the proper documentation is provided to developers right away, and immediately-useful and effective software libraries are available to utilize ALL blocks of the MMSP2+ chipset, it will be adequate for this system's purpose. Otherwise, it would be in everyone's best interests to look elsewhere for the core hardware of this device.

 

[Vimacs]

QUOTE
The aspect that causes concern is MagicEyes' tendency to implement their SoCs in a nonstandard fashion, and fail to document them fully, or fail to provide the documentation to developers. Instead, they prefer to convince their buyers to use sister companies' services like Dignsys, using a man-in-the-middle to avoid revealing how to operate their SoCs properly. This was the case with numerous aspects of the MMSP2, to include video decoding/encoding hardware and the 2D blitter.

Bullshit

 

[KeyboardCowboy]

QUOTE
The aspect that causes concern is MagicEyes' tendency to implement their SoCs in a nonstandard fashion, and fail to document them fully, or fail to provide the documentation to developers. Instead, they prefer to convince their buyers to use sister companies' services like Dignsys, using a man-in-the-middle to avoid revealing how to operate their SoCs properly. This was the case with numerous aspects of the MMSP2, to include video decoding/encoding hardware and the 2D blitter.

Bullshit

Is there a reason for your hostility? I'm not sure why civil discussion seems to be completely out of the question to you and many others on this forum.

 

[icurafu]

I noticed Dual Display in the specs, but I thought I'd wait for someone to annouce it before talking about it.

If you're going to make a DS clone, then, I think it will be difficult to get apps that use both screens. But if you can have tv-out as the 2nd display, I can already think of a bunch of really good uses.

In regards to 3D performance, I was blown away when I saw Quake3 run on the XGP. since this is similar but with much much better CPU power, I'm sure I'll be blown away again . The first demonstration will show the true colors.

 

[MWeston]

I noticed Dual Display in the specs, but I thought I'd wait for someone to annouce it before talking about it.

If you're going to make a DS clone, then, I think it will be difficult to get apps that use both screens. But if you can have tv-out as the 2nd display, I can already think of a bunch of really good uses.

In regards to 3D performance, I was blown away when I saw Quake3 run on the XGP. since this is similar but with much much better CPU power, I'm sure I'll be blown away again . The first demonstration will show the true colors.

That dual display stuff doesn't mean much realistically. In my case, the i.MX31 has triple display output in which one of them is the standard 18-24 bit parallel progressive scan, another is an SRAM style parallel outputs to "smart displays" with an internal control/display RAM and the third is a serial interface to another type of smart display. They are not particularily useful together in anything but a cellphone with a main display and a little tiny simple secondary display.

Now what mfk might mean is video "layers" in which you can blit to several "frame buffers" and the hardware will superimpose them together on the physical display so that you can do fancy effects, text overlays and stuff like that.....probably not a dual display like the DS

One more thing I noticed, the MMSP2+ only has a CVBS output and requires an external video encoder for anything else such as S-Video or RGB. We will all have to wait and see what the final hardware has but in light of cost savings, we might want to be prepared for composite only.

 

[cappuchok]

If you're going to make a DS clone, then, I think it will be difficult to get apps that use both screens.

I think it's been confirmed or at least indicated by the devs that the device will have one built-in display, so I'd take Dual Display to mean the device can use TV-out (or A/V-out as the devs seem to call it) as a "secondary" display, either in clone mode or as an extended display.

One more thing I noticed, the MMSP2+ only has a CVBS output and requires an external video encoder for anything else such as S-Video or RGB. We will all have to wait and see what the final hardware has but in light of cost savings, we might want to be prepared for composite only.

It's been hinted at by the devs that this device will have a very good TV-out (A/V-out) so I'd expect at least S-video but hopefully RGB or VGA (when I asked about the TV-out signal specification, the reply was that they keep the best features a secret for now). I would expect at least RGB from any device for which MAME will be a major app, and it'll also make UAE more realistic when used on TV-out (the Amiga outputs a SCART-compatible RGB signal). It's also largely speculation at this point whether or not the device will be based on the MMSP2+ at all. Yes, there is perhaps strong indications to that effect, but none of the devs has confirmed it and until they do, it's anyone's guess.

 

[zaoin]

I prefer composite rca over S-video. I know quality is not as good. But it's enough for me.
Rca cables seems more cheap than S-video.
All tv have rca video in.
Most tv's have s-video, you need an euroconector/rgb adapter.
Anyway I own a 2 m s-video cable yet...

Perhaps all you have super HDTV. :blink:

Anyway this is a question I don't care much.

 

[Squidge]

revealing how to operate their SoCs properly. This was the case with numerous aspects of the MMSP2, to include video decoding/encoding hardware and the 2D blitter. GPH was forced to utilize Dignsys to develop their

Apart from the fact that the 2D blitter on the MMSP2 is fully documented. The only system that isn't documented is the mpeg decoding hardware which is not documented due to licensing issues.

The aforementioned nonstandard implementation, if a repeat of the MMSP2, could also prevent proper communication between the CPUs and 2D/3D graphics subsystem, resulting in adequate performance

If the MMSP2+ is used, it must be verified that such shortcomings do not exist, and that proper libraries and documentation are provided to developers from the very start to alleviate the steep learning curve the MMSP2 caused, which drove away most serious developers of non-emulator apps.

There was no steep learning curve on the mmsp2. Anyone could download a compiler and immediately write a game or emulator in a very short amount of time, as everything was available to do so.

 

[TomVS]

This thing is long, too long to read properly but... One argument can be added : Screen/Picture-quality...

You can argue about resolution but picture quality is an important thing. I bought a first edition gp2x and that screen has it´s shortcomings... Scanlines, white border...

You can also see it on the portable dvd-market... Prices are falling but so is picture quality... Most cheap portable dvd-players have really poor picture quality (massive scanline-problems) but picture quality is what dvd is all about...

Even my sony psp has it´s flaws. The resolution and contrast of this screen is excellent but it suffers massively from ghosting...

So please select the screen carfully, I know some people did not see the scanlines on the gp2x or did not care but I use my portable devices also for watching movies

 

[Nova]

This thing is long, too long to read properly but... One argument can be added : Screen/Picture-quality...

You can argue about resolution but picture quality is an important thing. I bought a first edition gp2x and that screen has it´s shortcomings... Scanlines, white border...

You can also see it on the portable dvd-market... Prices are falling but so is picture quality... Most cheap portable dvd-players have really poor picture quality (massive scanline-problems) but picture quality is what dvd is all about...

Even my sony psp has it´s flaws. The resolution and contrast of this screen is excellent but it suffers massively from ghosting...

So please select the screen carfully, I know some people did not see the scanlines on the gp2x or did not care but I use my portable devices also for watching movies

Point well made, good sir.