Point taken, deleting. Where should I post it?
COVID-19 / Coronavirus Pandemic
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levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Since a single tweet can't really contain much context at all, I think this equation can be generalised:
twitter = lack of context = clickbait
or more simply:
twitter = clickbait
Linux-SWAT
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In France if you don't have the pass and need food, forget big markets, go to small shops and pay more for less.
Same if you want to travel with trains, you can't take long distance ones, have to take small jumps so pay a lot more.
Same if you want to travel with trains, you can't take long distance ones, have to take small jumps so pay a lot more.
Phlyra
FLOSSing
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Depends, some people create a tweet roll/thread because they still try to write in sufficient detail. It would be interesting if Japan’s mastered the art of concise tweeting in the same way they have Bonsaï, “tiny houses” and Danshari.
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Is there no equivalent of “SplitMyFare” in France?
I challenge your "just isn't true". I think you are suffering from cognitive dissonance. People get upset when their beliefs are challenged. And I get it, it's happening in your own country. where slowly the liberte, egalite and fraternite is eroding. It's still there, but it's eroding, eroding fast. So you comply, as to belong to the winning group. The Stockholm syndrome group.
I did not add "bias". like you did, even if informative. If you just said "hey, those people just deliberately organized themselves and try to storm? the mall-with-a-supermarket-inside (I see supermarket carts), closed off to them because the whole mall is offlimits, and they know it". Sure I can see that selfie stick, which you wouldnt bring if you are really going groceryshopping. I do not understand a word of what they say (sure, here and there a word or two) and the tweet itself does not have many comments. Now, I've been to Bordeaux (southern coastal France - but it probably isn't where the video was taken. France is a big country) and to be honest, there are no shops nearby, there is this one big mall, and its far away, only reachable by car. There is a minimarket, but it does not have all the products and you pay extra. So that might be a motivation to protest the decisions.
"and I question the need to post it here." = "Let's all look the other way, shall we?"
twitter = clickbait (divide both sides by "it")
wtter = clickba (and we come to the reduced simplified form)
Now, Micheal Jackson said "This is it", so:
this = it thus:
it = this and if we permutate "this", then
it = shit so as "it" was contained in twitter and in clickbait, it means twitter and clickbait both contain a bit of shit; not all of it, of course.
Linux-SWAT
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Never heard about something like that.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
I think it may be the thing we have in the UK, although I've never heard it called quite that. It's down to the way the rail network area has been split between companies, on occasion it's cheaper to buy a ticket to the boundary then a ticket on to your destination, compared to a ticket all the way through, even though in practice it's the exact same train and you don't need to change.
λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
Ah, so the government only makes life difficult for those who do not comply but they do not make life impossible for them. Let's see how long that lasts and whether it gets worse. After all, if they can change 2 weeks into 1.5 + year, then they ought to be able to make something worse of this as well. We already proved that we will comply with whatever their demands are, even if it destroys society as we know it.
Also, I did not watch the video yet, but the text just says that they are not allowed into supermarkets, and you confirmed that that is correct. So how is that propaganda? Real propaganda is misleading, such as claiming that the lockdowns will only last for 2 weeks even though it will last for multiple years or that CoViD-19 makes peple drop dead on the street and changed Wuhan into a ghost town even though CoViD-19 is hardly worse than the flu. Stating that people are not allowed into supermarkets without vaccine passport, when they are not allowed into supermarkets without vaccine passport is not propaganda but just truthful reporting.
Post automatically merged:
Seeing how it is very closely related to CoViD-19, it probably ought to go in some thread about CoViD-19 or related closely related issues.
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TeDaDeS
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I wonder if these measures are better or worse for the impacted people in the long run.
Sure in the short term people are really restricted it what they can do, but also they are confronted with the reality that all the convenience they have in regular life isn't guaranteed.
Those people will probably ban together and create parallel social structures to purchase their food and other items making them more independent.
Which might be worse for the government, as the grip on the group of people they would like to control is much lower compared to regular folks.
But I could be wrong, maybe this short term impact is too big and makes people go with the governments wishes making it a viable approach.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
It's propaganda because the post and the tweet claim this is throught france. It's not, it's just in hotspots.
Please stop with this. I don't know any flu that can put an otherwise healthy 35 year old in hospital and then kill them, but covid-19 can do that if you're unvaccinated.
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Phlyra
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Would be if you hadn’t put “vaccine” before “passport” and if you hadn’t refuted that the situation is rather more nuanced than you imply.
It is not a “vaccine”-only passport; it is a “health passport” that includes being vaccinated OR having a negative test certificate issued within a set time period before you attend whatever event/location requires a “health passport”.
I won’t repeat others’ explanations here as you already decided to gloss over those but I have corrected your insistence that this constitutes truthful reporting, whilst your analysis of it is wilfully misleading.
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I'm quite against those "health passports", but I'm curious how it works.
You go into a shop or restaurant or whatever and an employee asks for your health pass...
1- at the door ? at the outdoor queue ? Or when exactly ?
2- do you ask for the employee pass ?
3- do you ask for the passes of the other employees ?
4- how do they verify the pass is legit ? Do they access a server and does the server get the information of where you are and when you are there ? Or do they just check a digital signature "offline" (, withous sending the pass toa remote server, with or without consulting a certificate revocation list server? Or do they have to use proprietary software so nobody knows ?
5- How do you verify the employee pass is legit or the venue keeps prevention measures like ventilation, distance, disinfectants, etc. ?
6- Does the employee or the company get a binary data point or can they know whether you're vaccinated, or tested or survivor of the disease.
7- Do they know the vaccine brand, the date of vaccination or test or recovery ? Can they set up policies like only those recovered more than 2 weeks ago or tested today can enter but not those vaccinated anytime or those tested 4 days ago ? Or like say people with one dose of the vaccine can enter if their dose is less than one month old? Or put stricter requirements when they have many customers and laxer when they have fewer? Or are they required to apply the exact policy mandated by governement ?
8- Does the employee or the company get to know your identity ? Does the customer get to know the employee identity from his/her health pass? Does your spouse get to know you were at the restaurant and with whom (do you get a list of verifications of your health passwords)
9- Are minors also required to show a health pass ?
10- can health passes be revoked after being issued ? For instance if they found out your vaccine lot was defective or test material was defective, or lab is found corrupt, or info systems are compromised ?
11- Is there any protection (besides laws that make it illegal) against companies collecting, sharing or reselling their customers health pass info ? And does the customers or the employee sign some sort of privacy policy consent ?
12- How do they verify my pass is mine ? Does the pass include a photo, do they ask for an identity card or passport (so now bartenders need to be able to tell false passports from who knows where)?
13- Why am I asking if I can already fear most of the answers?
You go into a shop or restaurant or whatever and an employee asks for your health pass...
1- at the door ? at the outdoor queue ? Or when exactly ?
2- do you ask for the employee pass ?
3- do you ask for the passes of the other employees ?
4- how do they verify the pass is legit ? Do they access a server and does the server get the information of where you are and when you are there ? Or do they just check a digital signature "offline" (, withous sending the pass toa remote server, with or without consulting a certificate revocation list server? Or do they have to use proprietary software so nobody knows ?
5- How do you verify the employee pass is legit or the venue keeps prevention measures like ventilation, distance, disinfectants, etc. ?
6- Does the employee or the company get a binary data point or can they know whether you're vaccinated, or tested or survivor of the disease.
7- Do they know the vaccine brand, the date of vaccination or test or recovery ? Can they set up policies like only those recovered more than 2 weeks ago or tested today can enter but not those vaccinated anytime or those tested 4 days ago ? Or like say people with one dose of the vaccine can enter if their dose is less than one month old? Or put stricter requirements when they have many customers and laxer when they have fewer? Or are they required to apply the exact policy mandated by governement ?
8- Does the employee or the company get to know your identity ? Does the customer get to know the employee identity from his/her health pass? Does your spouse get to know you were at the restaurant and with whom (do you get a list of verifications of your health passwords)
9- Are minors also required to show a health pass ?
10- can health passes be revoked after being issued ? For instance if they found out your vaccine lot was defective or test material was defective, or lab is found corrupt, or info systems are compromised ?
11- Is there any protection (besides laws that make it illegal) against companies collecting, sharing or reselling their customers health pass info ? And does the customers or the employee sign some sort of privacy policy consent ?
12- How do they verify my pass is mine ? Does the pass include a photo, do they ask for an identity card or passport (so now bartenders need to be able to tell false passports from who knows where)?
13- Why am I asking if I can already fear most of the answers?
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λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
I was just responding to levi's argument. I was not actually making claims about French.
Either way, the CoViD-19 passport that you describe is still pretty bad.
λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
One reason why I think that this will not happen is that the government can just close these businesses anytime they want. In the Netherlands small businesses were closed for months in a row. The French government could probably also close any business any time that it wants under the banner of safety. So if small businesses become bad for the government then those small businesses are gone.
Other than that, most people are not self-sufficient like that anymore and neither are they principled and smart enough to realise that freedom is a prerequisite of safety. Probably, many people will just give in to the coercion so that they can get their way of life that they are used to back.
Of course, this will have the opposite effect. The more you give in, the worse the regime and measures become. Remember how in the beginning we only gave in to 2 weeks to flatten the curve? That has gradually grown to 1.5 years (and still counting) & coerced vaccines. I saw that coming pretty early on, but months ago some pro-lockdowners here argued against me that the measures were about to end so evidently this did come as a surprise to those folks. And they are in for many more of this kind of surprises.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
You didn't even quote me. I have a hard enough time keeping up with this thread without you replying to me without quoting me.
JDTAY
Half Pepperoni, All Cheese
Hey guys, the Reverend Jesse Jackson was just hospitalized with COVID-19. He was vaxxed in January, so I guess it wore off like the US government says it does.
λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
Sorry, I meant Elpoco. I was replying to Elpoco's argument, not yours. I confused you two.
TeDaDeS
Forum Addict!
I didn't mean starting shops. I mean if someone takes away your bank account, you'll find alternatives like digital currency or just trading.
Same goes for shopping, you might get your food directly from a farmer in bulk and spread it with your peers. Or grow some part of your food yourself if possible.
But it can also be impossible to do these kind of things, so I guess it depends on your situation.
For example: if you put sanctions on a country making importing stuff impossible or expensive, it's an incentive to produce those items themselves if possible of source them from somewhere else. Making them more independent.
Same would be true on a small scale with individuals I would assume.
But looking at Cuba and North-Korea that didn't work like that while Russia and China are large enough to become more independent. So maybe it's even easier as individual as it's a bit easier to 'cheat' and work-around restrictions.
ElPoco
Hardcore Member
I wrote "it just isn't true" because it states that people in France can't go into supermarkets without a vaccine pass, which is demonstrably false. I live in France, I went to the supermarket last Saturday and wasn't asked for a pass.
(For the context, that video was more or less staged, it comes from a group of anti-vaxxers who also broke into a hospital)
So why would that person publish that lie? To mislead people into thinking that a government somewhere is starving its population to force them to vaccinate. Which is false. So this is propaganda.
I'm not a fan of the government. Macron is an asshole, but if you want to discuss this, come with real arguments and not flat-out lies meant to mislead people. That's why I questioned the need to post things here. Lies and distorded facts do not bring anything to a discussion, they just mislead people. I could post articles about how the vaccines are made by lizard people from the moon, or that in some hospital somewhere they had 10 patients and they were all unvaccinated, but that wouldn't bring any useful information. That's just noise.
(For the context, that video was more or less staged, it comes from a group of anti-vaxxers who also broke into a hospital)
So why would that person publish that lie? To mislead people into thinking that a government somewhere is starving its population to force them to vaccinate. Which is false. So this is propaganda.
I'm not a fan of the government. Macron is an asshole, but if you want to discuss this, come with real arguments and not flat-out lies meant to mislead people. That's why I questioned the need to post things here. Lies and distorded facts do not bring anything to a discussion, they just mislead people. I could post articles about how the vaccines are made by lizard people from the moon, or that in some hospital somewhere they had 10 patients and they were all unvaccinated, but that wouldn't bring any useful information. That's just noise.
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