Avversario
Member
A very popular terrorist technique is make the first explosion and as more people collect to help the wounded blow up a second bomb. This is sad and and used by terrorist groups in Russia.
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boston pandora people hope you are safe
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Rockthesmurf
Advanced Member
Getting further and further off topic here, but this was the incident that initially prompted my post http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22146859 not entirely sure why I'm so up to date with all this trash news, I think the people on my Facebook/Twitter are just in the wrong circles and moan about this stuff a lot recently..
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Null
Snug
Kumaki
Well-Known Member
Way to give them ideas!!
Sheesh.
Terrorism is the weapon of people who have no weapons.
The sad thing is...they act...because they are pissed off or frustrated with some government policy...and they target a bunch of people to make some kind of "statement" and usually, the victims probably don't like the policy any more than the terrorists did.
does anyone in the US have an idea of the bomber's motives? Peeps in the UK are freaking out because its been said that they might Target the London Marathon. However i think its more likely to be an internal US affair about some domestic policy, or maybe perhaps US immigration policy as i'm aware that the Boston Marathon is a very multicultural event and rumours that Obama has been targeted by the same individual(s).
rohezal
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I don't know why to be scared more then 1 month before? It can always happen, that war crimes or psycho crimes are commited. Everyone is not more or less safe then 1 Month before.
My guesses:
Some NRA (Weapon) guy is pissed about the new weapon laws (which was rejected today)
Some people are unhappy that Obama is still president (you know "black communist")
Some madmen just wanted to kill people
Someone is unhappy with the living conditions in America (tent cities after the crisis etc.)
Less Likely:
Some people are pissed about the torture in Guantanamo which increased lately
Some Alewits are unhappy that the unite states trains sunni rebells in Libanion to fight in Syria
Some Afghan want revenge for the civil victims of the (drone) bombings
Some Pakistani want revenge for the civil victims of the (drone) bombings
Some Iraqi want revenge for the civil victims of the (drone) bombings
Some Iraqi who support Assad are unhappy about the pressure the west is doing to avoid weapon transfers to Syria from Iran via Iraq
Some Syrians are unhappy with the military support for the rebells by the USA
Maybe revenge for the murders and secret bombs in Iran near nuclear university professors (highly unlikely)
Maybe FARC rebells are unhappy with the military support of the Columbian goverment by the USA (very highly unlikely)
lots of other things like drone bombings in Yemen, Mexican Drug Lords unhappy with support for mexico by the usa, etc...
In general: a few people died and some people are injured. This is terrible and a crime. But this happens all day in Mexico in drug wars, in Syria in civil war, in the death cells in China, Iran and the USA, in Kongo, in Azawad etc. We have a strange bias to focus the News on the western world. This is quite unhealthy I think.
I recommend to read alternative sources (they are probably not better, no source is good, but different sources are helping to get a broader view). My sources:
http://guardian.co.uk/ <- left western view
http://en.rian.ru/ <- the russian (putin?) view
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/liveblog/Syria <- (Gulf) Arabic view on the situation in Syria, a bit pro saudi arabia / UAE .
indymedia (google it) <- indypendent, left news
My guesses:
Some NRA (Weapon) guy is pissed about the new weapon laws (which was rejected today)
Some people are unhappy that Obama is still president (you know "black communist")
Some madmen just wanted to kill people
Someone is unhappy with the living conditions in America (tent cities after the crisis etc.)
Less Likely:
Some people are pissed about the torture in Guantanamo which increased lately
Some Alewits are unhappy that the unite states trains sunni rebells in Libanion to fight in Syria
Some Afghan want revenge for the civil victims of the (drone) bombings
Some Pakistani want revenge for the civil victims of the (drone) bombings
Some Iraqi want revenge for the civil victims of the (drone) bombings
Some Iraqi who support Assad are unhappy about the pressure the west is doing to avoid weapon transfers to Syria from Iran via Iraq
Some Syrians are unhappy with the military support for the rebells by the USA
Maybe revenge for the murders and secret bombs in Iran near nuclear university professors (highly unlikely)
Maybe FARC rebells are unhappy with the military support of the Columbian goverment by the USA (very highly unlikely)
lots of other things like drone bombings in Yemen, Mexican Drug Lords unhappy with support for mexico by the usa, etc...
In general: a few people died and some people are injured. This is terrible and a crime. But this happens all day in Mexico in drug wars, in Syria in civil war, in the death cells in China, Iran and the USA, in Kongo, in Azawad etc. We have a strange bias to focus the News on the western world. This is quite unhealthy I think.
I recommend to read alternative sources (they are probably not better, no source is good, but different sources are helping to get a broader view). My sources:
http://guardian.co.uk/ <- left western view
http://en.rian.ru/ <- the russian (putin?) view
http://blogs.aljazeera.com/liveblog/Syria <- (Gulf) Arabic view on the situation in Syria, a bit pro saudi arabia / UAE .
indymedia (google it) <- indypendent, left news
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Kumaki
Well-Known Member
Does anyone here understand what breeds terrorism?
What makes people willing to carry out these acts?
It is really quite simple.
These people simply have nothing left to lose.
They live in squalor, and they see the elite in their homelands living in opulence.
The oldest political trick in the book - foment discontent - then redirect the anger and discontent you have created...against an enemy of your own choosing.
Make them believe that the porr condition of their lives are the fault of The Great Satan...The United States.
Let them believe that by their act, they will win an awesome place in some afterlife.
That is all it takes.
Now you have people willing to die - because that is the only possible way to improve their circumstances.
They are pawns, they are used by the powerful, the governments of the lands in which they live.
The powerful, meanwhile...just obtained a weapon with which they can strike at a target like the United States.
We Americans don't know how to fight a guerilla war. We proved that in Vietnam.
This is a new guerilla war. Unfortunately, the innocent civilians are being targeted.
And while gopvernments are behind these attacks, generally...no gevernment can actually really be held accountable...because these people do not wear uniforms.
It is the new world in which we live.
The world in which Israel has lived for decades.
And we would do well to learn from those who have been dealing with it far longer.
How to prevent it...how to foil the plans...and how to reduce the desire of people to carry out such attacks.
We could learn from the Israelis. We could learn from the British, who for years had to deal with Sinn Féin.
The Isrealis know how to spot and neutralize potential threats.
The Brits know how to change hearts and minds, there is no more threat from Sinn Féin.
We'd do well to learn from our friends around the world...how to deal with this stuff.
We Americans are relatively new at this sort of thing.
And that is part of why it works here. It scares the shit out of us...which is the whole point of terrorism.
What makes people willing to carry out these acts?
It is really quite simple.
These people simply have nothing left to lose.
They live in squalor, and they see the elite in their homelands living in opulence.
The oldest political trick in the book - foment discontent - then redirect the anger and discontent you have created...against an enemy of your own choosing.
Make them believe that the porr condition of their lives are the fault of The Great Satan...The United States.
Let them believe that by their act, they will win an awesome place in some afterlife.
That is all it takes.
Now you have people willing to die - because that is the only possible way to improve their circumstances.
They are pawns, they are used by the powerful, the governments of the lands in which they live.
The powerful, meanwhile...just obtained a weapon with which they can strike at a target like the United States.
We Americans don't know how to fight a guerilla war. We proved that in Vietnam.
This is a new guerilla war. Unfortunately, the innocent civilians are being targeted.
And while gopvernments are behind these attacks, generally...no gevernment can actually really be held accountable...because these people do not wear uniforms.
It is the new world in which we live.
The world in which Israel has lived for decades.
And we would do well to learn from those who have been dealing with it far longer.
How to prevent it...how to foil the plans...and how to reduce the desire of people to carry out such attacks.
We could learn from the Israelis. We could learn from the British, who for years had to deal with Sinn Féin.
The Isrealis know how to spot and neutralize potential threats.
The Brits know how to change hearts and minds, there is no more threat from Sinn Féin.
We'd do well to learn from our friends around the world...how to deal with this stuff.
We Americans are relatively new at this sort of thing.
And that is part of why it works here. It scares the shit out of us...which is the whole point of terrorism.
thatgui
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I have to disagree heavily on .. everything you said. Beside the fact that it is in an unclear state wether the people that did this are foreign or domestic - it is simply wrong that these are all poor people that just want to have a bigger slice of the cake.
This form of terrorism is a product of history: european colonialismus in the 19th century and US/Nato/USSR foreign politics in the cold war and after that the bushianism of the 1990 and the follow ups.
And please don't let anyone try to learn from the Brits or even more horrible from the Israelis. Neither of them as done much right in that matter, especially the Isrealis which main "countermeasures" are building high walls and regular bombardments
elwing
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no, they don't target "a bunch of people" or rather yes, a whole bunch, they target the whole country. their goal was not to kill some people in Boston...
pmprog
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lol, what's with the glove? Is he trying to be Michael Jackson? I'll be honest, the only time I've seen and heard this Bieber person is in A Dose of Buckley.
Oh, and want to stop terrorism? Turn your TV off and stop reading the newspaper. Terrorism works because the media outlets pump it to the millions. The connected world shifts information (and misinformation) so fast, it's pretty easy to whip up a frenzy.
How would you cause terror if nobody ever knew what you were doing?
ekianjo
Hardcore Member
Very true. Terrorism is pretty much a by-product of the "always-on" media culture we have been living in for a while. Because news get reported, because rare events attract attention, terrorism benefits from it.
ExquisiteCorpse
Member
American drones in Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria where people are basically living under skynet and with Americas strike targets averaging 10 civilian deaths for every 1 terrrorist they drone strike..
Couple in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and I think these people have a legitimate case (whether you despise their methods or not) for some hatred toward the US.
Couple in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and I think these people have a legitimate case (whether you despise their methods or not) for some hatred toward the US.
rohezal
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No it is realy complex. There are politcal ideologies, poor living conditions, religious hate, personal hate, madness and sometimes greed. There are several classes of war crimes (terrorism is the wrong word). And several classes of violence and actions.
The one which want has politcal goals:
Changing the current goverment system with a different one (monarchy for parlamentarism (america), monarchy for public councils
Changing the current economic system with a different one (feudalism for capitalism, feudalism for socialsm)
Changing the laws with different ones (make gay marriage illegal, relgious reasons)
Changing the ruling party by use the old system (like in niceragua, changing the president by military force, but use the old laws and just start new votes)
The personal ones:
Kill other students in your school
Kill your ex wife and the kids
Kill your boss
The later one are not realy "war crimes", they don't want to archieve something, they are just hate, rage and personal agenda. This are solveable by improving the living conditions, more social security, more ways to change school / work, avoid trouble and offer more social service (like more psychologists). A rampage is not "terrorism".
There is no real world wide definition of terrorism. The only thing which is defined, is that "terrorism" tries to conquer the mind of the enemy, not the land. But this can be also said about psychological warfare. So I refer to war crimes.
So if you are not in army and want to fight for a politcal goal (see the upper definitions), you are generally a "terrorist" in the media. See PKK, FARC, IRA, Syrian Rebells, the Rebells in Afghanistan. It differs what you want to archieve. And if you are commiting war crimes (killing civilians). And if you attack military target, targets of military use or civilian targets to destabilize the enemies influence sphere.
This is a strong bias, not all "terrorists" are Muslims and from Saudi Arabia. And realy few "terrorists" are from Iran.
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Null
Snug
WizardStan
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True facts, most terrorists are latino (I forget if it's a majority or just the substantial minority, I read it in a text book back in my university psych class years ago and am now trying to find the statistics), and the vast majority of terrorist attacks don't even occur in the US; you think 3 people in a blast this one time is bad, there are places where it's a regular occurrence, sometimes daily. It's very wrong, not just politically but also literally, to suggest that terrorists are "poor Muslims with nothing to lose" targeting the US. Even within the US it would surprise people to learn that a substantially large (I still can't find specific numbers but looking at the list of terrorist incidents a pattern emerges) number of attacks in the US over the last 100 years have been carried out by well off white people with political agendas. It's only been the last 15-20 years that "Terrorist" has become synonymous with "brown person", and I blame the media for that entirely. Personally I would call the local media the largest terrorist group(s) in the 1st world: poor reporting, both accidental and intentional, has lead to people being afraid of things that they shouldn't be, a key definition of terrorism.A terrorist is not a muslim, doesn't have a political agenda or seeking approval from their deity. A terrorist is just someone who wants you to be afraid of something or someone, not just kind of scared but completely terrified, and they will act with disregard to achieve that effect. Who they are and their motives for wanting you to be so afraid have no bearing on the definition of "terrorist". When news outlets wrongly reported in the late 90's that there was a link between autism and certain vaccines, people became terrified of the vaccines and as a direct result thousands of children have died from entirely preventable diseases for absolutely no reason: there is no link between autism and vaccines and even if there were an autistic child is better than a dead one; they saw a story that would make them profits, they ran with it without considering the effects it would have, and people have been suffering the consequences in fear ever since.
Terrorism man, it runs so much deeper than you can possibly imagine.
Kumaki
Well-Known Member
You cannot argue that those who carry out terrorist acts are mostly desperate people from the lower strata of the socioeconomic ladder.
And I believe that improving their conditions would make them less likely to be willing to carry out such acts.
And TV has nothing to do with it.
Explain Guy Fawkes and explain the Reichstag...we were not drowned in a constant media culture back then, and these acts still happened.
For that matter, for most of history, Sinn Féin did not get the constant media coverage. Didn't stop the terror, did it?
Terror often is caused when an outside force attempts to force it's will - on a group of unwilkling people...usually to the benefit of the "invading force" and at the expense of the native population.
And those people have no other way to strike back. I don't condone the acts, but I think I understand what causes them.
And maybe that is the first step to preventing them.
No, you can't eradicate all malcontent...but you don't have to go around CREATING it.
And I believe that improving their conditions would make them less likely to be willing to carry out such acts.
And TV has nothing to do with it.
Explain Guy Fawkes and explain the Reichstag...we were not drowned in a constant media culture back then, and these acts still happened.
For that matter, for most of history, Sinn Féin did not get the constant media coverage. Didn't stop the terror, did it?
Terror often is caused when an outside force attempts to force it's will - on a group of unwilkling people...usually to the benefit of the "invading force" and at the expense of the native population.
And those people have no other way to strike back. I don't condone the acts, but I think I understand what causes them.
And maybe that is the first step to preventing them.
No, you can't eradicate all malcontent...but you don't have to go around CREATING it.
pmprog
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Guy Fawkes wasn't a terrorist, he didn't attempt to blow up Parliament to terrorise people. You can read all about the plot on Wikipedia.
ExquisiteCorpse
Member
The Glasgow attacks were carried out by doctors with PHD's so no...that's not the case Kumaki. On top of that he was British born (but of iraqi descent).
What would make them stop attacking people would be zero western intereference (100 thousand people dead in iraq since the US invaded) in their home countries as well as not giving billions of American tax payer money to Israel who treat the Palestinians as sub human.
What would make them stop attacking people would be zero western intereference (100 thousand people dead in iraq since the US invaded) in their home countries as well as not giving billions of American tax payer money to Israel who treat the Palestinians as sub human.
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Kumaki
Well-Known Member
Well, E.C. I think we have some of the same ideas.
Certainly we do agree it is not a good thing to have an "invading force" benefitting at the expense of the natove peoples. Which is, I'm sad to say, the way my country is viewed by much of the world.
I'd like to think that most people in the world know that we Americans do not much like some of the things our government does in our names.
But apparently not, because it is us innocent civilians...who probably share more sympathies than not...with the oppessed people...that are the ones who get hurt.
Take 9/11 for example.
Of the 3,000 that died that day...very few if any of them were responsible for the policies and actions that angered those who carried out those attacks. And a goodly portion of them probably did not support those policies and actions either.
I say very few if any being responsible for those policies...because, in that case, the Pentagon WAS targeted.
In the case of what just happened in Boston...we do not yet know WHY it was done. One of the jerkos who did it is now taking the eternal celestial dirt nap and good riddance to him, too. Just too damn bad he had to take innocents with him. But whatever upset the people who carried this attack out...I'm pretty sure none of the injured/killed...had ANYTHING to do with whatever it was that set these jerks off.
I say weneed to get a large piece of land somewhere...and just ship all the people who do not want to live in peace and harmony...there...and let them have at one another...and leave us peaceful people alone. But again, this is just me wanting to idiot-proof the world - which I guess can't really be done.
But we would do well to learn what motivates people to do these things...and maybe stop doing the things that motivate THEM to do what they do.
Certainly we do agree it is not a good thing to have an "invading force" benefitting at the expense of the natove peoples. Which is, I'm sad to say, the way my country is viewed by much of the world.
I'd like to think that most people in the world know that we Americans do not much like some of the things our government does in our names.
But apparently not, because it is us innocent civilians...who probably share more sympathies than not...with the oppessed people...that are the ones who get hurt.
Take 9/11 for example.
Of the 3,000 that died that day...very few if any of them were responsible for the policies and actions that angered those who carried out those attacks. And a goodly portion of them probably did not support those policies and actions either.
I say very few if any being responsible for those policies...because, in that case, the Pentagon WAS targeted.
In the case of what just happened in Boston...we do not yet know WHY it was done. One of the jerkos who did it is now taking the eternal celestial dirt nap and good riddance to him, too. Just too damn bad he had to take innocents with him. But whatever upset the people who carried this attack out...I'm pretty sure none of the injured/killed...had ANYTHING to do with whatever it was that set these jerks off.
I say weneed to get a large piece of land somewhere...and just ship all the people who do not want to live in peace and harmony...there...and let them have at one another...and leave us peaceful people alone. But again, this is just me wanting to idiot-proof the world - which I guess can't really be done.
But we would do well to learn what motivates people to do these things...and maybe stop doing the things that motivate THEM to do what they do.
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