Benefits for donators?


If I do stretch goals, it would be a docking station (easy to do and being planned anyways), getting prototype units right away (easy, as I won't do preordering / crowdfunding before we've got working prototypes), and stuff like flying the investor to Germany and being at GC when the production run starts.


Nothing that would change the unit, for sure, as the unit would be finished by then already.
 
I could see it playing out this way - in a multi-stage approach.

Have a limited edition 'Pyra Beta' pre-order through the Pandora/Pyra storefront. Limit this to 500 units and one per -account- restricted to only people who are registered within these forums at least 1 month prior to the pre-order. Price these at a level of 2 times cost of producing those 500 units. If there is interest beyond the 500 units, use the registration date on the forum and keep the 500 who have contributed the most code/ports, been here the longest - or post count or combination to restrict it. I may not even qualify since I have not made any ports. A few very select people who are known to be heavy producers of content, Notaz and Exophase for example, should receive a free beta unit.

Those 500 units and their purchasers are the Beta test. They post up difficulties, create the first round of .PND files for the Pyra, generally run the units through the ringer, etc. Their feedback, comments, needs, suggestions and creations both in hardware and software are used to stabilize the software environment and, if needed, changes to the hardware for the final release version.

The beta test should last @90 days.

Roughly half-way through the beta testing phase, a KS or similar should be run for 'Pyra Production' units at 85% - 95% of expected retail prices. It should run/fund through the end of the beta test. The work of the beta testers and the software they've made run on the beta Pyras should help significantly in the marketing for that funding.

If the KS or similar is successful:

Ship the KS or similar production units 90 days out from the end of the beta test.

Allow each of the beta testers the option of returning their beta unit in 1:1 trade for a new production unit OR keeping their beta unit.

That end-trade for a production unit protects the beta testers 'just in case' there is a material issue in the beta.

The beta crowd gets to stabilize (somewhat) the OS image and a basic application set - which helps in promotion for the general production.

The KS or similar crowd gets a much better 'out of the box' experience AND can see a variety of stuff running on a near-production machine before they pledge/purchase/etc... which should increase the crowd funding by showing them a nearly mature -working- machine.

ED may have other and better ideas though.
 
Having worked at various hardware manufacturers over the years, I'll just say it boggles the mind how many iterations of components the better manufacturers go through before putting a product on the market. I trust ED to be able to do a lot of that, and we've all learned a lot through the Pandora's strengths and weaknesses, but one man or a few beta testers can only stress tests so many parts, and while of course that's part and parcel of the idea of a privately made system like this, expanding the size of the beta testing pool via paying beta-testers is an interesting idea.
 
Grench:

No it isnt an excellent idea, because you have to buy all the parts in bulk, and 500-1000 units isnt economically viable.

Nor is buying 5k units with the money from 1000 sales. There just isnt that kind of profit margin.

500 units alone is a very expensive 500 units. It would cost for example 200€ more per unit than doing 5k or 10k.

Yes, it would probably work, but its almost twice the work of getting components.

Also, that funding will could be used for better purposes, read below for my thoughts on that.

KS takes a considerable chunk out of the cake for their service, which is not that of being just a regular shop for finished salable items.

With the help of investors, and community, all the process leading up to when the preorder goes live has happened. That is _extremely_ beneficial for all parts.

What i mean by that is it is an almost ideal time to launch. Products ready for sale would be a little better.

However the tradeoff is grouping up funds from investors and people ready to go in with funds upfront. Luckily both are possible, which is why the next point isnt needed.

Initial monetary perks:
Also it irks me to no end how its most often the case that some early backers get a cheaper price. That triggers either impulse purchases from those who can get them, with buyers remorse. And/or reselling, which is effectively undercutting business.

For the people who cant get them, which is when they are sold out, and only the regular price (as opposed to limited) is offered, it triggers procrastination. People hold off because they feel they should rather have been one of those limited orders.

In essence its an unsocial scheme to promote that initial kick that human psychology is dependant upon.

Since we already have people who want to buy it, that isn't needed. The result is a more evenly priced and more lucrative deal for all.

Yes, even if you go in early, doing so means those who come later will be more plentiful. Thus making the profit margins higher.

And with a project like that, more profits mean good things. ED really deserves all the profits he can get, and beyond that anything is a bonus to me.

Initial affectional value perks:

For example silkscreening, or exclusive colours. This could be ok, but it could also not be. Sociologically i don't want to pick a colour because its limited. I want to pick one that I think is pretty. Those two counteract. And also later comers could prefer an earlier colour but be artificially limited. I don't want to limit anyone with my choices.

Silkscreening didnt work out with the first pandoras. And in retrospect it wasnt needed.

At the time i would have liked to have it, but now im glad I didnt. It easily gets cheesy. And id rather it was subtle. A little note on the sticker behind the battery is ok. A ghastly print to ruin the design isn't. I have a t-shirt that says "I backed gcw-zero on kickstarter" And while probably exclusive, its cheesy and I wont wear it. Because its a bad design and its making me into a tool, an advertising tool. If the Gcw itself was better, maybe, but no, just no. A little forum badge could be good. Humans are more open to being charitable if support can be shown.

Production runs:
I think a select few prototypes should be made, each probably costing 2000€ each to deal with testing, and then sent to the usual suspects. The price seems high, but its not that many, also it has to be done anyway, so its the most bang for the buck.

If many videos and impressions are posted from that, its easy to form and opinion, which can be worked out by the response of the community rather than doing an initial bigger batch. I think these initial devices can be community funded, as I would be more than happy to chip in for that.

Yes it could be done in other ways, with demographic analysis and whatnot, like the bigger companies do, but I think this is the best of what can be had.
Pandora was a success because its made by people who know what its for. The same is true for pyra. Where i think we can be better is cater to more markets. Most prominent, general laptop-use, photographers, and the audiophiles.

Goals and such, I think its very smart to of ED only offer things that are unrelated to the main package. Like the mentioned trip to globalcomponents.

In essence for example a successful kickstarter campaign is in one way just a multiplication of fees for every device sold. 7% of everything adds up linearly.

Just as dumb-limiting promotes some sales, its best to look at the bigger picture. A 7% of every sale is saved by not going kickstarter.

And we are the internet, we dont need store-publicity. The time for kickstarter and indiegogo is over, it isnt novel anymore, and its also saturated. Being crowdfunded alone isnt newsworthy. The pandora was a pioneer in terms of funding, and still is, i think rolling a successful own-funder is how to follow that up.

One lesson from before is to only use one shop. The risk is with someone everyone trusts, and thus, ED is the chain of command that all faith is in. Dragonbox shop, for funding and for sales thereafter. A sale from dragonbox for money upfront even to other shops is easy and nice.

A similar * included with every unit, is somewhat a double project. Cables being easy to procure and wont go wrong, and a whole docking-station on the other side of the scale being more complex.

And the most important goal of all, before any costly promises are made. The more successful, the more profit margin. Which means an inbuilt buffer against things going wrong.
 
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KS could be awesome for two reasons:


-Money.
-Publicity: It is awesome how the projects at KS begin to have a lot of promotion via news websites. Maybe you will not reach the money but, dammit, i think only for the spotlight you will have you have to try it.
 
The novena was very successful on the crowdfund platform. And crowdfund really hasnt any history or earlier products to give the platform itself more publicity.

If a noname platform is a success, it really doesnt matter that its run by someone who handles other things (for which there is no need. withholding funds, running a shop, webhosting a campaign etc)

What I'm saying is that paying 7% per unit is irrelevant to the publicity it creates. That money is better funnelled into making the devices. (more in tune with community funding)

Also doing something novel yourself is a story in itself, being on KS, which is the biggest nowadays, isn't.
 
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Despite how badly manufacturing issues went horrible wrong with the Pandora at first, it was a really successful crowd funding effort prior to the whole crowd funding phenomenon became a thing..

Getting too much publicity may have some downsides like getting way too many orders causing logistic, manufacturing nightmares or perhaps too much negative press seeing how the mass smartphone/tablet users don't quite get the Pandora and such..
 
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Well, you can easily limit preorders and crowdfunding units to a sane number to produce.
 
KS could be awesome for two reasons:

-Money.

-Publicity: It is awesome how the projects at KS begin to have a lot of promotion via news websites. Maybe you will not reach the money but, dammit, i think only for the spotlight you will have you have to try it.
True, but don't forget that an (good) KS campaign is ALOT of work and ED has to manage all the stuff besides his actual work. Depending on how much bakers are donate, there can be tons of stuff you have to plan, prepare and deliver for every perk, possible stretch goals and so on. I have no idea how ED would manage this besides his already tight schedule. maybe he finds some helpers or a prfessional KS campaign maintainer. I don't want that our beloved ED will get to exhausted.
 
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Nobody knows, but he organized a preorder for the alucase in _addition_ to all the other things he does. Also he will get help to do the manually intensive things that take many manhours.

ED has done it before, under worse circumstances. Finalizing everything and ordering parts to assemble and whatever else is the last thing until a preorder. Publicity is us.

Kickstarter is a lot of work because you have do deal with quite inept staff working for kickstarter, amazon, paypal and so on, equally so for technology at indiegogo. Crowdfunder is much better.

And doing it yourself is best of all. Do you honestly want to pay 7% or whatever it is of the _total_ to have the project on kickstarter?

The greater picture looks like ED is planning with great foresight

Wait till things are ready, and keep the orders simple.

A way we can help is finding good things to offer on the pre-order.

What i want is an

alucase pyra, with samsung pro MLC uSD. (i bought one to test)

possibly

/topic/16541-un-boxing-the-box-case-of-the-outer-casing/#entry341813">A hardened watertight outercase
 
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stuff like flying the investor to Germany and being at GC when the production run starts.
That is a cool idea imo.  Things like that appeal to me, but the lack of funds would hold me back in the next few years.  If it happens maybe those who can do it can post videos. 

For the people who cant get them, which is when they are sold out, and only the regular price (as opposed to limited) is offered, it triggers procrastination. People hold off because they feel they should rather have been one of those limited orders.
I did this with Pandora.

Sociologically i don't want to pick a colour because its limited. I want to pick one that I think is pretty.
This is a good choice for those who like the color and get something that will be harder to get later, plus they helped with initial funding, and that is attached to the color as a status symbol for those who care about such things.  I get what you are saying, but I have one limited edition color item that I purchased much later than the release, and second hand I had to pay a little premium for it, so I don't see this as that much of a negative.  If you don't like the limited edition color you don't buy that one.  For example, if the first batch of Pyras are a dark red those who like it will get it.  You can wait a little while to get the black (or whatever color).  I understand not wanting to wait, but if you want a particular version I see little difference, just like those who don't want a first batch unit in case a revision has to be made to fix some issues. 

ED, just make some potato salad.
 
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People who want to help with initial funding, regardless of state of completeness or testing, have no bearing on the appreciation of colour. If you see _a_ point, then ok, you to some degree understand me. Do you see any upside to doing exclusive colours upfront?  Yes, exclusivity sells, but how much, and what about later?

In essence getting a pyra is exclusive, the sooner you get it, the sooner you can take part in it.

The way I see it an initial offering should be made simple. And one case colour is easier than many different ones. Maybe its easy enough to produce, but as sleep-deprevation sets in, its easy to send the wrong colour to the wrong person.

So why not just do one wacky colour?  This is two-fold, firstly to maximize sales, lets say black should be used, its what the most people want now, and if it were to be exclusive, it would be the colour the most people would be excluded from getting later on.

With the case-files being open, anyone can get any colour their ability allows.

So either a selection of colours, or just one, makes sense. The latter would at least make it easy for me to pick.

Pentax has 256 different colours on their cameras i think, and thats beneficial for them i imagine. I think im one of very few people who have trouble picking. Some people have their special colour that they want. And while more commonly a lot of people would be happy enough, with black, they would be more happy with more choice.

Michael jackson reportedly sold much more, and a considerable portion of one of his late albums because he released it in 8 colours, and his fans bought all 8 each.

If anything I think if more colours are offered, there should be a stretch goal, or funder vote for colour-choice. And then the feasible amount of options win.

And then if you _have_ to have your colour, that could cost whatever a 3D print runs, or what the casemaker take, which i think is a bit more.

That is inclusive towards the community of funders, and it is fun.

Hehe, wouldnt you like to buy a notaz or cloudef pro-model?

Sociologically a limited colour means its limited to that one event, there is no second hand. Anything else is the kind of logic that says commercials dont work. Yes, one can not buy a product, but being speculative is not lessened by that fact.

As such, one takes advantage of deeply rooted traits, and also creates a second hand market which takes advantage of people that must have the exclusive for exclusivity, or liked that particular colour.

How about honesty and warm offerings? There is too much cold-hearted and aggressive consumerism.
 
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I neglected to state that for those who want standard color versions and want to help with initial fund raising it would be a good idea to allow them to pick get their unit in the standard color when that version is being shipped.

I very much agree about getting the Pyra earlier.  I want one yesterday.

I agree with most of what you said, but you can usually get things second hand, so I am not following you here.  What I paid for my "limited edition" device was significantly lower than what it originally sold for, and related devices in a regional color, but not exclusive in the same sense as mine (which was picked up just for preference of color), sell often for the original price or higher.  I suspect there are more of these than there are Pandoras, yet they sell for about the same price at times.

Since these are consumer devices I don't see how you can take consumerism out of it completely, but ED does a great job with honesty and not being cold hearted.

Maybe the first batch case can be a black Al case.
 
Doing a run of 100 is just expensive for all parties. Yes, the first people are willing to pay a lot, and they are already lined up.

But they don't want to fund shipping companies. Also, supporting the project early is the opposite of using later orders to subsidize the first.

Because with a number of 100, it is an artificial limit, that isn't good.  People like to be helpful, they don't want to be forced. And while that is a free present to the first, or first thereafter,

it is effectively a system that separates people. It is unsocial, and it makes people think they missed an opportunity. Some campaigns use this effect ruthlessly, but that isn't good. Best case it might be beneficial if you come out of nowhere, but we are fortunate enough to already make wheels turn and cater to ourselves.

To be the very best one needs to be honest while doing it. A fair price for all, that as many people can get in on as possible, is beneficial to all. The strongest possible commitment in human psychology is egoism, displayed at its most effective when working together, in fairness. That latter part isn't even short term logical from an egocentric standpoint. Yet it is second nature. Crucially important. A pure-bred connection that is ingrained in people at large. Herd animals are successful, the few who aren't are either specialized, parasitic, or have no or few natural enemies. Humans have huge amounts of natural enemies, we are adapted to work together.

If we all sit down around a table, why should some of us get benefits that others don't get, I don't want to be that guy. The Pyra is good enough to sell on its own merits.

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Think of this for exclusivity. While other devices will tell you they are exclusive because they have words on them that say so, mimic, or are arbitrarily limited, we want to be the opposite, a device that anyone can have, that gives freedom and fairness. Yet we are more exclusive than any of the other of the other devices. We are small. We are also fundamentally different. If you appreciate someone taking a stance and would like to be one of us, the small monetary difference, will be repaid in every way possible in the experience that is provided.

No spying, in an ecosystem you own. You own your device. Your device is made to last and adapt to your needs. You are in control, but not left to yourself. The Pyra is a community device, you joining that community makes it what it is, it makes us what we are. No different from the guy in charge, for once a likeable and honest character that you can talk to.

Imagine again the world was more like those times you thought of when you went: "why don't they" or "why isn't it this way" "that's stupid, how can they get away with.."  Thankfully any number of those describe best what the Pyra is.

And our gratitude is with each and every one of you making it possible.
 
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The strongest possible commitment in human psychology is egoism, displayed at its most effective when working together, in fairness. That latter part isn't even short term logical from an egocentric standpoint. Yet it is second nature. Crucially important. A pure-bred connection that is ingrained in people at large. Herd animals are successful, the few who aren't are either specialized, parasitic, or have no or few natural enemies. Humans have huge amounts of natural enemies, we are adapted to work together.
I don't know where to start...
 
To establish what humans are one must first escape the trolls. (Oh the northern mythology joke, save us, save us)

The greatest benefit to donators is getting a pyra methinks, and we are forgetting that. Cant see the forest for only trees.
 
So, in the hypothtetical case to start a crowfunding, the steps maybe will be something like:

-Finish the prototype and test it during a prudencial time.

-Send/Sell 50~100 beta test units and make a hard test during 1 month to see if all is ok are there's something to fix.

-If all is not OK then fix it and start crowfunding? Or maybe fix, test again and see if all work now?

-????

-Profit.
 
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