Beauty competition.

[Eight Bit]

EGA was the bomb, we only had a Hercules card in our XT with 20MB HDD

 

[Kev2442]

The "DS" part of the name emphasises the dual screens, not the "Nintendo" part. So "Game Boy DS" completely preserves that emphasis.

It played like a GBA with extra features. So games that depend on those features would not work properly on it's predecessor that lacked those features. There's nothing weird about that. The N64 was named consistent with it's predecessor yet could you imagine playing Super Mario 64 on a SNES? Besides, what sense did it make to name the DS like a home console, is the DS really more like the Wii than it is like the GBA?

The DS is more akin to the Wii for me, as they both pushed new ways to play (dual screen and stylus for one, motion sensing for the other) and were targeted to the whole family. I don't think "Game Boy" conveys this to the elderly. The whole point was starting afresh :

Current Nintendo president at the time, Satoru Iwata, said, "We have developed Nintendo DS based upon a completely different concept from existing game devices in order to provide players with a unique entertainment experience for the 21st century."

Designer Ken'ichiro Ashida noted, "We had the DS on our minds as we worked on the Wii. We thought about copying the DS's touch-panel interface and even came up with a prototype." The idea was eventually rejected because of the notion that the two gaming systems would be identical. Miyamoto also stated, "if the DS had flopped, we might have taken the Wii back to the drawing board."

Also I don't see the N64 as being much different from the SNES, only more powerful with better controls as did all consoles in its generation. It doesn't offer truly new experiences. And don't get me wrong, I love that thing and will always defend it for going with cartridge storage. Now the Wii and DS, they pushed things forward.
The Wii proved inferior graphics but new gameplay could be relevant facing its competition. Our VR games kinda descend from this observation.
The DS was a real trailblazer when it came to mobile and casual gaming. Smartphones and tablets owe much to it when it comes to games.

If you only focus on architecture to differentiate lines of products, you can call the current and next generation home consoles the AMD X-Station while arguing that the Macintosh II isn't as close to a current iMac as it is to the Eurofighter Typhoon combat aircraft

 

[TrashyMG]

Also I don't see the N64 as being much different from the SNES, only more powerful with better controls as did all consoles in its generation. It doesn't offer truly new experiences.

How so?, I mean at the time not many, especially those who only used consoles at the time ever seen 3D graphics at the N64 level of quality it really was a ground breaking console at the time. For most the N64 was the first real 3D experience people had, so not sure how you can see it as not being that much different than the SNES.

Voodoo cards were not even out yet on N64 release and even the adoption of 3D accelerators took a year or so, so even on a PC perspective the N64 was ground breaking.

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

The DS is more akin to the Wii for me, as they both pushed new ways to play (dual screen and stylus for one, motion sensing for the other) and were targeted to the whole family. I don't think "Game Boy" conveys this to the elderly. The whole point was starting afresh :

How about the GameCube? Was the DS also like the GameCube? After all, It's the "Nintendo GameCube" and the "Nintendo DS"; the Wii was just a random example that I choose. I could just as well picked the GC.

Now the Wii and DS, they pushed things forward.

Yet only the DS was considered to be a new line. The Wii was considered to be the successor of the GC. So you disagree with that, then?

If you only focus on architecture to differentiate lines of products

I focus on how similar their hardware is.

while arguing that the Macintosh II isn't as close to a current iMac

I consider old Macs to be very different from new Macs indeed. They're very different computers made by the same company.


Anyway, the DS is even backwards compatible with the GBA. So the DS is basically a GBA with extra hardware added that's also backwards compatible with the actual GBA—yet you still consider the DS to not be a successor to the GBA just because the new features of the DS happened to be very important to you? I agree that the DS is very different from the GBA from a user perspective (in fact the DS might be my favourite Nintendo device to date while I have no special preference for the GBA) however the DS is still the successor to the GBA. And from a programmer's perspective the DS is also just a GBA with extra hardware added; it even contains the GBA's CPU to handle the features that the DS has in common with the GBA and contains another DS specific CPU for the new stuff.

 

[levi]

Yes, that's certainly true and something we were obsessed with at the time. But if you're more of a generalist or a PC gamer, there are still 2d games being made today so the important difference is more the play style than the rendering method you could argue. For me the Z-targetting of Zelda:OoT maybe is significantly different to what was being done in LttP, and certiainly at the time the 3d nature of Super Mario 64 felt completely different to the more linear Super Mario Bros style of play but these days that difference is more potatoes versus potatoes. We can largely disregard the gamecube as being a significant evolution, mainly consisting of prettier versions of the same games IME. But I guess if you're younger and weren't there at the time, but were around for the launch of the wii and DS you can see that as being a bigger change.

Post automatically merged: Jun 9, 2020

I consider old Macs to be very different from new Macs indeed. They're very different computers made by the same company.

Well yes, old Macs were computers that you owned and could code on or do whatever you wanted. New macs seem to be applicances that you can't control so intimately.

 

[Kev2442]

@TrashyMG : Sure, the N64 is a remarkable console in its own right, but it mainly comes from its power. What I meant is that when it came to actual use cases, the main thing differing from previous Nintendo products was its analogue stick. Now this was advanced for its time (although it was a bit clunky and unreliable as early tech can be). 3D games were already available on the SNES thanks to SuperFX chips. Super Mario 64 is said by Miyamoto to have been first considered for the SuperFX 2, and it was not the lack of 3D capabilities but the few buttons which justified waiting for the Ultra64. Of course Super Mario FX levels would've been more akin to Bowser in the Sky than to Bob-omb Battlefield, but it could have been a thing.
Also while cartridges saved the day for its near-instant access times and high bandwidth compared to the poor 2x speed CD drives found in the Saturn and PlayStation, I'd rather have traded approximated bilinear filtering for more texture cache, because boy did the 4KB result in blurry everythings. And using RAMBUS is the epitome of "not such a good idea" when you have to wait forever everytime you transfer anything regardless of the speed.

@λ the β-Redex Reducer : No, the DS isn't much like the GameCube, neither in hardware nor in spirit. In hardware it shared with the Wii (and later so did the WiiU and 3DS) the idea of "taking the same hardware and beef it up a little, so we keep backwards compatibility", but it's the intent that it shares.
Of course I agree with you on the hardware side of things, and the DS is indeed a successor in everything but name. The latter is the point I'm trying to make : for the layperson, a Game Boy is the same as another. Even more if it can play the same games (GB>GBC>GBA>DS>3DS). Breaking the name legacy shines a light on what is new : it is not about what it does better, it's about what it can do that nothing else can.
The same goes with the Pyra after all; most of its purposes are covered, and often better, by other devices. It's the idea of combining all of them in one handheld that's the spirit. You don't have to carry a smartphone, a laptop and a gamepad and try to cram it all in your pants. If the Pyra covers all your use cases, you only need one and nothing else. And it might even bring new uses along.

@levi : indeed I was more of the DS generation, as I was born in 1995, but my brothers and I were more PS2 and PC oriented. They have had every Nintendo console up to and including the N64 though. But these I mostly discovered through emulation until I started collecting. I love hardware as much as the next guy, but when it comes to what made history it isn't only a matter of performance. The GC is awesome and it's on my list, but there's a reason the Wii sold so well. I remember my brother and I introducing our dad to Wii Sports (bowling), and it's just more accessible than even Bomberman. Plus I'm sure we all remember not caring so much about visuals when we were kids, we cared more about the games themselves.



When it comes to great Nintendo hardware from a "good design meets actual performance" standpoint, the GameCube is only topped by the NES. Everything else had major flaws, apart from the Switch maybe. But if anything sold on pure performance alone, the Pyra would be doomed from the start... and yet it isn't.

By the way, I mentioned the Typhoon because it used the same Motorola 68020 as the Macintosh II and A1200, so it's a bad joke that actually makes sense

 

[matzesu]

If the DS where just another GBA, they had put a GBA GB GBC Slot in, and not only a GBA Slot, also on GBA Mode, there was no Multiplayer on the DS via Link Cable.., so the GBA Slot was just a nice give away, not a Main Feature..
Sadly they ditnt made the GBA Slot on the 3DS Range, so i have to take a 2DS XL and a DS Light whit me when i want to play 3DS, DS, and EverDrive GBA ..^^
I sort of finished Yoshis Island on a DS Light ..

But may whe please go back to topic, i would like to know if the Mass Produktion Pyra can run GBA Games as good as the Pandora, but therefore whe need a Mass Produktion Pyra on the right Peaple..

 

[levi]

I certainly hope so. It's my only way of playing Mr.Driller 2 without going into the loft and getting out my original kit, which is important to me personally.

 

[Kev2442]

If I remember well, the DS Lite was the last one offering the GBA port. It might have been removed due to piracy concerns, but as linkers using the DS port were already commonplace by then, it was either stupid or unrelated. So here was I with my old white DS Lite, playing Guitar Hero while later DSes can't, their loss
So... Pyra delivery in Two Months™ ?

 

[daveshah]

I suspect it was removed on the DSi because it was no longer considered so necessary, just an extra cost and potential loss of new games revenue. For the original DS and DS Lite, it helped make up for the limited games library on release, whereas the DS library was in a much better place by the time of the DSi.

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

If I remember well, the DS Lite was the last one offering the GBA port. It might have been removed due to piracy concerns, but as linkers using the DS port were already commonplace by then, it was either stupid or unrelated. So here was I with my old white DS Lite, playing Guitar Hero while later DSes can't, their loss
So... Pyra delivery in Two Months™ ?

Depending on whether you consider the DSi to be a successor to or iteration of the DS, the DS Lite was the last DS to ever have been produced at all.

I think that Nintendo removed the port because they're lame. Thinking about it, I realise how we can solve our camera problem! We may not have space for a camera, but if ED makes a GBC cartridge slot on the Pyra then we can insert the Game Boy Camera! Because we're pressed on time we should skip the poll asking the community if they want this and just immediately demand that ED implements it!

 

[daveshah]

Nah, we can just use one of these for the Game Boy Camera experience!

 

[matzesu]

This is cool, but how dos this work whit the Linux ? Is it just a small Digicam who writes from the other side of the SD Card, and then the Picture Apears on the SD Card in the Pyra?

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

Nah, we can just use one of these for the Game Boy Camera experience!

I actually searched for that because I guessed that it may exist but I kept finding normal SD cards marketed for use with camera's. Does this really exist? Where can I buy it?

 

[daveshah]

They do exist, although they were only designed for HP iPaq PDAs, I don't know if there are any Linux drivers. There are a few on eBay etc: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-Photo...767921?hash=item3b46323cb1:g:sq0AAOSwGPdepgXR

 

[carlberry]

I actually searched for that because I guessed that it may exist but I kept finding normal SD cards marketed for use with camera's. Does this really exist? Where can I buy it?

It was for the iPaq and my guess as to where you can buy them is somewhere between "ebay" and "You can't".

 

[Letalis Sonus]

Is it just a small Digicam who writes from the other side of the SD Card, and then the Picture Apears on the SD Card in the Pyra?

The attached camera is accessed directly, it is an SDIO device.

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

That's pretty cool. But thinking about it, I'm probably just going to set up some form of RAID using all 3 slots with Btrfs for bitrot detection and correction. And if I want to plug in an SD card then I'll just use my trusty USB-to-SD dongles. Who really needs 2 SD slots? All I really need is a lot of space to store and protect my bits!

 

[Grench]

The attached camera is accessed directly, it is an SDIO device.

Exactly. Also - there was a very similar camera device made for the Tapwave Zodiac. I have one of those Tapwave camera modules around here somewhere - it wasn't very good.

 

[ptitSeb]

So @daveshah as made a patch to make 3D Driver compatible with @zmatt Tiler code. It's a bit manual for now, but will improve quickly and @aTc is planning to integrates all this in the firmware.

And it works

Only picture, so you don't know if it's smooth...

But yeah, my short session on Bit.Trip.Beat was smooth and nice (playing with the nubs...).
I may try some video later...