Anyone here from Sweden?

[ZXDunny]

Seems to me that the current political climate in America has emboldened the racists and bigots to come out and start shouting, and in order to justify their paranoia they're looking at european countries and trying desperately to convince everyone that their perceived injuries are prevalent there too.

As the main bigot would indeed say, "SAD!"

 

[levi]

I think the stories about rape being caused mostly by migrates is probably accurate. The legalization of child marriage, the police station getting blown up, migrants assaulting tv journalists as they try to talk to migrants.. I assume that all of these stories are all true.

IIRC they say that most rapes are from people you already know. Not sure how that squares with recently arrived migrants, unless they're raping each other. There's stories of religious schools being kiddy fiddler nests, and while that's recently been focused on muslim communities, it's long been the case with roman catholic and other christian sects I suspect.

And you know what they say about when you assume?

 

[benoitb]

Europe have not the responsibility to financially support Africa nd middle east, we have not the resposibility to build houses for them in our contries, it should be clear to all by now this is not a question about refugess, its not a question of allowing migration, so the real question is: What is "multiculture" suppose to lead to? If you look to history the awnser is clearly WAR...

Multiculture leads to war only if you want it. I wonder why I'm doing just fine in Finland as a French married to a Korean. It may be that my mariage will break and I'll start attacking Finns in the streets but I don't know it yet.

France is a multicultural country and issues exist. Are they caused by culture or social and racism matters ? Not sure but what I can tell for sure is that while one can debate about immigration and its challenges or limitations but you shouldn't turn a blind eye to the vast majority of successful migrations.

I work in the telecom field and when I was working in Paris, a good amount of my colleagues where from Tunisia and Morocco. The young French students don't seem to be so interested in becoming engineers today. These guys were nice and smart, they are happy to be in France and paying taxes for the old French people, I just hope these retired people could understand it and be grateful.

 

[Klumpen]

Multiculture leads to war only if you want it. I wonder why I'm doing just fine in Finland as a French married to a Korean. It may be that my mariage will break and I'll start attacking Finns in the streets but I don't know it yet.

That's where religion comes in.
The problem are not "foreign" cultures but religion based to some (sometimes higher) degree on fascist and anti-humanist mindsets.
There's a reason why Asians for example seldom cause much trouble although being practically everywhere in somewhat foreign cultures.

 

[Caine]

I think that is because culture is not as irrational as religion.

When you tell a foreigner that something is illegal, or against the values of a society then with cultural habits most will just change those habits.
Saying the same of religion based behaviour is typically considered an offense as supposedly the law of god supersedes the law of man.

Extreme belief in doctrines that state how to deal with unbelievers or followers of "false gods" only exacerbate the tension.

 

[___]

I think the stories about rape being caused mostly by migrates is probably accurate. The legalization of child marriage, the police station getting blown up, migrants assaulting tv journalists as they try to talk to migrants.. I assume that all of these stories are all true.

https://www.snopes.com/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

a little fact checker for you.

 

[ZXDunny]

Because of course the first thing you need to do when fleeing for your life to a safer place or just looking for a better future for you and yours is to go blowing things up and/or raping the locals.

 

[mjohansson]

I dont know if Sweden has a record in rape or something, but we didnt have gangs of foreigners gangraping our kids back in the days, the courts dont sentence foreigners in general though for statistical purposes and we dont keep record of peoples etnicities in crimes anymore because apparently criminal actions are a result of poverty and all foreigners are poor because racist swedes dont give them jobs... Foreigners just say they are kids and police dont even arrest them anymore, no one checks, no one asks how they can travel into and through all of europe without a passport and how come no one ever loose their phone or cash but passport is lost by some 100% of refugees? When I said multiculture I didnt mean a handfull of lawabiding high skilled engineers, no one had anything against that, what I mean is the "open border" religion and its consequence of my country being downright invaded by arabs and africans specifically. These are not engineers and will never contribute anything of any value whatsoever, most dont even learn our language, instead they drive out swedes from neighborhoods specifically and have their relatives move in, then they run their own shops and now even large companies have started to make commercial on arabic languages and such... Considering that the people never stop coming and the religous cult that operates all political parties are in agreeance that the borders must never be shut, considering that they are encouraged to take several wifes and have as many babies as possible, I guess its only a matter of time before the ofiicial language of sweden will be arabic.
There is simply no excuse for what is going on here, and it will inevidibly lead to war, as it always does when muslims invade a country. If people seek a better life they can fight to make their own countries better, if people have war in their countries who will fight for their freedom if all men just pack their bags and run to welfare paradises? Even if they were all lawabiding wondefull angels that wanted nothing more then become swedes it wouldnt be right to allow such an invasion, what if you went to japan and all you saw was europeans with anime shirts and talking some few japansese words poorly and mostly english, I would be sad as hell if that happened, tourism in controlled fashion is allright, guest workers or family unions such things are allright, millions of muslims with no skill and a refusal to adapt to another country and downright hatred and despise for its native population is NOT ALLRIGHT!

 

[ZXDunny]

I know what you mean - we had an awful influx of nordic assholes come over here and burn, pillage and generally be complete dickheads, the locals didn't stand a chance, now we even have towns named using their language! It's a bloody scandal - they've polluted our language with theirs too.

And to add insult to injury we then had a whole shitload of italians come over, they nearly dominated the whole damn country, building roads and more towns, never speaking the local language but sticking to their own dead language...

And don't get me started on when the bloody french came over... Christ, what a bloodbath that turned out to be!

Sodding foreigners, they're just not bloody British.

 

[mjohansson]

I know your sarcastic but I agree with what you said ZXDunny
But there is no viking problem today, now the problem is invading muslim. With islam comes jihad, sure not all muslims are jihadists but you cant have islam without jihad there will always be hardcore people that takes the religion literally and you can never tell who its gonna be , let islam stay in islam countries... We dont need roadbuilders its not rocket science anyone can do it, if people dont want to become roadbuilders then thats an internal problem that needs a solution, what would we do otherwise? Keep importing roadbuilders? When they become westernized and dream of fancier work we import more lowskilled labour? When all of lowskilled people of all world have been imported and westernized were do we find more lowskilled labour to import then? The answer is not import people the answer is communication so a solution can be agreed upon.
Leave other countries alone and stop the invasions, if your a decent human being you dont force yourself upon others, you can ask if your allowed to visit or even make permanent living, but you cannot demand to be let into someone else home and live there indefinitly and demand they pay for your stay, you cant demand such a thing even if your are in all rights a refugee in need.
Ok theres a real fucking problem here, a lot of people want sovereign nations, and a lot of people want an "no borders" world, there needs to be some compromise all can accept or there will be endless war that no side can win, communication and negotiation instead of bullets please.

 

[Caine]

Ok theres a real fucking problem here, a lot of people want sovereign nations, and a lot of people want an "no borders" world

A few idealists aside, the dividing line would be with whoever pays the bills.

If western countries would adopt a "no-social security for non-citizens" rule then a lot of the economic immigration would stop instantly. There might still be fear and anger among the lower educated classes at the fear for losing job opportunities, but those are under threat of being automated anyways.

 

[ZXDunny]

But how are these people different to you? They have the required number of arms, legs, heads, yes? Why do you have a particular right to be in any particular place that they do not? What is it that gives you ownership of a piece of land with arbitrary borders (that were created by other people) and causes you to insist that other people are not allowed on your patch of land? Do you think you own a piece of land? You do not - the only thing that says you own it or belong to it is the person or people who decided that you do - it's a mental construct, entirely in your own head.

Given that, why should people not be free to roam where they will?

I do agree with you about the conflict aspect though - but that's just human nature to kill other humans. Some might say it's a mental illness, but we are sadly in the minority.

 

[mjohansson]

We have the right that we take, I take the right to build walls and roof and lock the door to my house and I take the right to keep people out with violence if needed. My house is the most private, my immidiate nearby surrounding is still very private, I will know the people that move about there usually, and I take an interest in who moves in to neighborhood, nobody likes a disturber of the peace but everyone loves people they get along with. If you move somewere you will adjust to the way things are there, its like a rule of decency.
For all of the country I still have a interest in who is let in and why, but ther further away from me the less I care. If the countries system and finance and the possibility to move around inside our borders is under threat then we people who are alike in a fundemental way take the right to drive out the invasion and preserve our way of lives.
You dont move to a new place and tell the people there that they must now change their way of life, your braking the rule of decency.
If your out walking in the woods and find a cave, and there is a bear inside, do you have the right to go in there and live there? This is territory and the bear will see you as tresspassing and slaughter you and eat you, if you have the weapons to kill the bear you have the right that you take, but its an act of aggression to destroy what was there and a crime in my opinion atleast.
So if you dont make a negative impact on the surrounding do you have the right to live in another country? Thats for the occupiers of the territory to decide and not for you to decide, if you go inside their borders without their permission its an act of agression.
You can ask but you cannot demand.

 

[ZXDunny]

But who makes the borders? And who grants those people their permission to do so?

 

[mjohansson]

I make the border, I grant the "permission", I enforce the rules, I have the right I take.

 

[ZXDunny]

Hope that nobody comes along that has greater power than you then? I mean, by your logic you only "have" something if you can defend against someone else taking it.

 

[mjohansson]

Yes, thats the reality we live in, were there is people that cannot be reasoned with, not bargained with, were some people just want to watch the world burn...
Let me ask you something, are you for open borders? What does that mean then?
Theres 10 million people in sweden, what if 25 million russians decided one day to move here, we cant turn them away because we dont have the right to protect our borders, and once they are here we have the responsibility to support them financially, even though there isnt money for that, and since they are here they have the right to not just vote but also join political parties and for government, so they decide to form a pro-russia party and they vote them through with majority of government, all perfectly legal and democratic, and the pro-russia party decides sweden shall now be part of russia and be ruled by putin and russian law, and all must speak the official language russian.
Or what about 1 billion poor chinese slaves, and 1 billion poor indian slaves, they have the legal right to live in sweden and be financially supported by us, and not only that, but as some extremists in EU parlament propose we should open embassies in all countries for people seeking asylum so they dont have to travel, they can get swedish citenship and right to our taxmoney, no requirements and no limits, then we would also hae to obligation to pay to ship them in and ofcourse to build houses for them.
Why wouldnt they want to become swedes and get free money for doing nothing for the rest of their lives instead of working themself to death in their countries for peanuts if even that?
Do I have the responsibility to have my life ruined and become a slave as them? After the blood, sweat and tears my parents and their parents before them fought to make a life worth living in a country worth protecting? Other countries political disaster and religious problems are other countries problems, theres absolutly no reason whatsoever as to why my country should be ruined and destroyd, we have no responsibility and nothing to do with it.

 

[___]

sorry but that is not the reality "we" live in. that is the reality you live in, or rather what you consider to be reality. what the fuck happened to people and to these boards? has everyone turned into blatant racist assholes nowadays?

Why is this topic still open? When I try to discuss the refugees situation in a humanitarian light, it is considered politically edgy and the topic is closed. when some right wing racist bigot fuck comes along asking troll questions and everybody happily chimes in to the hate parade, it's totally legit? I am glad that there is at least some people with a little decency left on these boards hwo will take position against this bullshit.

@the ones who think the media is lying and governments are all agreeing with each other: take a look at your fucking selves! I am glad that our governments agree that people in a humanitarian crisis have to be helped. so please take a huge bite of your christian moral an shove it.

 

[_jr_]

sorry but that is not the reality "we" live in. that is the reality you live in, or rather what you consider to be reality.

Exactly. Especially note that there is actually no rational argument inside the walls of - AFAICT - fear.

It is ok to fear something, often it is even healthy. But when the risk assessment goes haywire it becomes problematic. There once was a fire in the house I was living in. Nothing serious happened, but after that the sound of sirens gave me strong urges to go home and check. These were irrational. Just because it happened once it didn't suddenly become more probable and dwelling on it was just a waste of time and energy. It took a lot of deliberate effort to fight these urges and get back to normal.

I think it is important to accept responsibility for oneself and among others thoroughly check whether one's fears are healthy and take action if the are not (i.e. thinking of starting civil wars could be a sign). One is hurting not only oneself but everybody else around when acting irrationally.

 

[Klumpen]

Exactly. Especially note that there is actually no rational argument inside the walls of - AFAICT - fear.

It is ok to fear something, often it is even healthy. But when the risk assessment goes haywire it becomes problematic. There once was a fire in the house I was living in. Nothing serious happened, but after that the sound of sirens gave me strong urges to go home and check. These were irrational. Just because it happened once it didn't suddenly become more probable and dwelling on it was just a waste of time and energy. It took a lot of deliberate effort to fight these urges and get back to normal.

I think it is important to accept responsibility for oneself and among others thoroughly check whether one's fears are healthy and take action if the are not (i.e. thinking of starting civil wars could be a sign). One is hurting not only oneself but everybody else around when acting irrationally.

But that's exactly what it's all about: The dose makes the poison.
That goes for everything including the amount of people you take in, care for and try to integrate into your society.