Anyone here from Sweden?

[klapse]

Btw, a militia is not a standing army.

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be
used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the
latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be
corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper
[doublepost=1510141253,1510139751][/doublepost]

@rygD
I and many Germans believe the abolishment of mandatory military service to be a great achievement and we have fought pretty hard and long to achieve it. My parents protested against this when they were young.

Good job. Next step is the abolishment of mandatory taxation to pay for the professional military.

 

[ible]

but we also say there is a limit to the arms that you can bear. no one is allowed to keep nuclear warheads for self defense...

Good job. Next step is the abolishment of mandatory taxation to pay for the professional military.

i wonder how many conservatives in the states also believe this. perhaps the libertarians, but not the current republican leader (he wants more money to go towards the military).

 

[___]

It's not as if it was blatantly sexist or anything since it only affected young men.
Well, I guess the reason why you didn't mention that is because next to nobody cared about that fact, which is very sad.

No, actually I did not mention it, because I forgot. The whole issue has been circumvented by abolishing mandatory military service and allowing women as professional soldiers in the Bundeswehr. Shall we talk a bit more about sexism in general then and how women are still getting the shit end of the stick on basically all social levels?

Good job. Next step is the abolishment of mandatory taxation to pay for the professional military.

Yeah, because that is comparable how? So now being a pacifist and having a choice if you are willing to kill or not is a bad thing? People who would like to be soldiers still can...


Because apparently having an opinion of your own is not enough, here is a couple of quotes for you quote lovers:
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children." --Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." --John F. Kennedy

"You can no more win a war that you can win an earthquake." --Jeanette Rankin

"My conscience won't let me go shoot my brother, or some darker people, or some poor hungry people in the mud for big powerful America. And shoot them for what? They never called me nigger, they never lynched me, they didn't put no dogs on me, they didn't rob me of my nationality, rape and kill my mother and father. ... Shoot them for what? How can I shoot them poor people? Just take me to jail." --Muhammad Ali (But I guess he doesn't count, because he converted to islam and as we all now know, muslims are apparently the new subhumans)

See, for every stupid "weapons don't kill people blablabla" quote, I bet I'll find a quote from an intelligent person to counter it. So can we stop quoting people (who in part don't even live anymore and are completely quoted out of historic context)?

 

[Klumpen]

Shall we talk a bit more about sexism in general then and how women are still getting the shit end of the stick on basically all social levels?

Are you talking about Africa, Asia, the middle east, America or Europe here?
If the latter, then I call bullshit, if about most of the others, then I agree.

 

[___]

Actually I do not want to discuss it at all. This whole discussion has diverged completely from the OP. Rightwing troll is successful...

I was trying to make a point, but before you start dissecting everything again, here are some statistics for Germany:
http://www.oecd.org/berlin/publikationen/the-pursuit-of-gender-equality.htm

And an article (German sadly) that states once again, that almost nothing has improved in the business world:
http://www.spiegel.de/karriere/oecd...i-der-arbeit-kaum-fortschritte-a-1171146.html

For the rest of Europe: Do you really think we need to talk about the situation of women in France, Italy, Spain, Poland etc.? There are many countries in the EU where things are way worse for women, due to religion or whatever cultural differences (machismo).
Read a few reports of women about italian macho culture https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/posts/progress-and-problems-sexism-within-the-italian-culture
Remember Berlusconi?

Or Spain:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5051597/

Or try admitting to be gay/lesbian/feminist in Poland and see where that gets you...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/poland-abortion-police-raids-a7987181.html

Oh here is the polish MEP publicly being an idiot (and an incredibly modern male rolemodel)

yeah Europe is the pinnacle of righteousness, isn't it.

 

[Klumpen]

snip

Then again 7 of 10 homeless people are male, there is no male equivalent of women's shelters (Frauenhäuser), the suicide rate in males is still 3 times as high, the expected workload per hour much higher (and the hourly pay not better if you look closely at those statistics and how they are made), getting an entry-level job to enter the market at all is way easier for women, there are quotas everywhere that put sex (female) over qualification etc...
The problem with your examples is, that they are religiously one-sided as everything on that topic.

Of course it changes drastically if you only look into circles of the upper 10%, then you are mostly right.

 

[___]

@Klumpen yes that is true. it is always a matter of context and what exactly we are discussing here isn't clear to me at all anymore.

shelters for men? why? do women attack men in shelters? are men targets of sexual abuse and need a safe place to escape from their spouses persecution? I don't think they do... just because something like this does not exist for men, it cannot be extrapolated that men are thusly treated unfairly. after all, there are also no gynacologists for men. and I'd like to see a statistic of how many men are raped by women.

 

[ZXDunny]

there is no male equivalent of women's shelters (Frauenhäuser)

I don't think you can blame that one on women - shelters are usually run by women for the benefit of women. If men need shelters (and I'm not saying they don't - spousal abuse runs both ways, it's just way more prevalent in the male-abuses-female scenario than the other way around) then men need to build shelters, just like the women did.

Of course, people like Klumpy want all their grievances against women to be the fault of women rather than their own social inadequacies so they conveniently overlook small facts like these.

 

[Klumpen]

@Klumpen yes that is true. it is always a matter of context and what exactly we are discussing here isn't clear to me at all anymore.

shelters for men? why? do women attack men in shelters? are men targets of sexual abuse and need a safe place to escape from their spouses persecution? I don't think they do... just because something like this does not exist for men, it cannot be extrapolated that men are thusly treated unfairly. after all, there are also no gynacologists for men. and I'd like to see a statistic of how many men are raped by women.

I don't think you can blame that one on women - shelters are usually run by women for the benefit of women. If men need shelters (and I'm not saying they don't - spousal abuse runs both ways, it's just way more prevalent in the male-abuses-female scenario than the other way around) then men need to build shelters, just like the women did.

Of course, people like Klumpy want all their grievances against women to be the fault of women rather than their own social inadequacies so they conveniently overlook small facts like these.

If you think Frauenhäuser are only there to protect women who made very questionable marriage choices, you are wrong.
They are also used by girls 18-25 around here, who are victims of family violence, don't get a job and don't get any help to get away from the circumstances.
I was in this situation once and had a female buddy that was in the same situation at the same time, guess who had more luck with her sex?

Side info: Around here you only get help to leave your parents home at the age of 25 in most cases apart from the women's shelters who also help younger ones.

 

[ZXDunny]

If you think Frauenhäuser are only there to protect women who made very questionable marriage choices, you are wrong.
They are also used by girls 18-25 around here, who are victims of family violence, don't get a job and don't get any help to get away from the circumstances.
I was in this situation once and had a female buddy that was in the same situation at the same time, guess who had more luck with her sex?

Side info: You only get help to leave your parents home at the age of 25 in most cases apart from the women's shelters who also help younger ones.

Which completely misses the point, well done! I'll reiterate it since you appear to be hard of thinking:

The reason that there are women's shelters (refuges in the UK) is because WOMEN SET THEM UP AND RUN THEM. It has nothing to do with spousal abuse, but is for any female that needs a refuge away from danger. Now, nobody is suggesting that men don't need these places, but if they want them as part of some sort of imaginary equality package then they need to set them up. There is a very, very good reason that the women running the women's refuges don't allow men inside them, and if you can't see what that is then you have much bigger problems than some imaginary slights against you based on your gender.

 

[Klumpen]

Which completely misses the point, well done! I'll reiterate it since you appear to be hard of thinking:

You completely missed my point of regional differences.
Thanks for the insult though.

 

[ZXDunny]

You completely missed my point of local differences.
Thanks for the insult though.

And again, you're missing the real question here - if this is such a problem for young males, then why don't men make the effort to help them the same way that the women did for the females? You're trying to make this about gender when it's not.

You're welcome for the insult - there's plenty more where that came from if you persist in being an idiot.

 

[Caine]

Always nice to see when our least opinionated board members are having a friendly exchange of ideas.

 

[Wally]

Same as the greece thread, this thread has had it's time. Closing as us mods all agree.