Anyone here from Sweden?

[asdf334]

Could someone from Sweden tell me what in the heck is going on out there?

 

[AnimatedFreak]

I'm from Sweden. What do you want to know about?

 

[slaeshjag]

Did our king eat something off the floor again? More käbbel? Be more specific.

 

[asdf334]

Hey thanks!
I'm just wondering what going on with the mass migrations from the point of view of someone that's over there, Swedish people I meet here seem to ignore the idea that anything could be wrong they just tell me about the need to have compassion. Meanwhile or news is telling that the Swedish culture is in dire straights. Any thoughts?

 

[AnimatedFreak]

It is a very charge issue in Sweden and you will find a lot of of opinions of it if you ask random Swedes.
So I don't want to seem like I am speaking on it with any more authority on the issue. Really you should do your own research and there are a lot of different sources so you should check all of them if you want to come as close to the source as possible. However it may be hard considering a lot of the best articals are in Swedish.
I will say this. In Sweden there is a culture of silence on some issues, especially regarded issues that have a "politically incorrect" side to them.
This is a problem in my opinion because in a democracy having conversations about issues is important for the democratic system to work. However people are afraid to speak up and speaking up may in the wrong way may cause trouble for you.
A recent example was a dentist in Sweden that reported that one of his refugee clients might be lying about his age to qualify as a child-refugee and therefore receive certainty privileges only reserved to child-refugees.
(source: http://www.dagensjuridik.se/2017/10...tionsverket-ratt-att-ge-tandhygienist-sparken the artical is in Swedish) This caused the dentist to be fired from his job. For reporting a crime.
I can go on about this issue for quite a bit but I really don't want to get into political discussions on this forum of all places as it is one of those places I go to when I want to get away from it all.
It's important to note that all of Europe is dealing with these issues currently and Sweden is just one of those nations. Just look at Germany and the UK.

 

[Binky]

It's important to note that all of Europe is dealing with these issues currently and Sweden is just one of those nations. Just look at Germany and the UK.

Here in the UK, people do talk about about immigration - but rarely with enough restraint or perspective. There's a real humanitarian case for accepting refugees - and real reasons not to overdo it. The media tends to whip this up into a frenzy of bigotry, and almost nobody (including myself) knows what the position really is.

If democracy depends on an informed electorate, I do wish it were easy to come by solid information...

 

[PCXT]

Well, in my country people talk about immigrants... in other countries . Many Ukrainians come to Poland, and as in every community some are working hard (maths professor in my workplace is from Ukraine) some not. There definitely are conflicts, but they rarely go to the media because they are too small clickbait.
But I was definitely surprised by one thing when I was in France in September. Polish media show France as almost a civil war country. Well, the first thing I saw when I left airport in Nice and walked through Promenade were a few people sitting on benches with laptops. In my city, such thing would quickly end for the laptop in the nearest pawn shop and for the user - in a hospital.
So it is important not to take everything media say because media will misinform only to get more revenue from ads. And all these "anti-fake-news" campaigns work only if inconvenient facts have to be covered, they are suddenly "fake news". I usually like to take average of ultra-right and ultra-left groups news, because they both tend to research hard when it comes to uncomfortable facts about opponents.

 

[Caine]

If democracy depends on an informed electorate, I do wish it were easy to come by solid information...

While I totally agree, I fear that the majority of the electorate does not.

Each referendum we have had in the Netherlands, I have read the associated treaties and law-texts, like e.g. the proposed European constitution.
I do not know of anyone else that did. Many voted not on the texts itself but rather to make a political statement about something else entirely.

It takes two parts to be informed. Information and willingness to take in that information. Most of the time both are missing, and yet... everyone has an opinion.

 

[mjohansson]

There is no debate in Sweden, there is a saying "the truth is usually somewere inbetween" meaning both/all sides of a case will say what benefits their own agenda. For something resembling the truth to be discovered I think all sides must be heard and a real debate take place. In Sweden there is no debate allowed in media, and all political parties are in agree with eachother about what stance to take, except one party wich is shamed in all media to no extent and there is basically a war against anyone that would vote for them, and its always referenced how the nazis killed jews in second world war as if the "Swedendemocrats" would suddenly start to build concentration camps and execute jews, when a lot of their party members are in fact jews... But its scare tactics to crush the little "opposition" there is. The problem with Sweden is the deabte that should be taking place not just about immigration but of everything, it has been witheld and incredibly effectivly silenced. But from my experience the average people are not scared anymore, they have lost it completly, one after another is speaking out and not caring about the consequences anymore wich can be the loss of your job but also tearing apart of familys thats how much this issue matters to some people. Everyone wants to be good people, and the media have made it clear what you must do to be good, now the media is doing financially worse every day that goes by, people are giving up and admitting what has happened has not been good for anyone.
Europe have not the responsibility to financially support Africa nd middle east, we have not the resposibility to build houses for them in our contries, it should be clear to all by now this is not a question about refugess, its not a question of allowing migration, so the real question is: What is "multiculture" suppose to lead to? If you look to history the awnser is clearly WAR...
Also, in Sweden I would be branded as a NAZI for saying all this and risc loosing my job, be beaten up and have family brake up with me. The migration is one of many things your not allowed to debate in Sweden, simply wanting to have a debate is considered nazi and unspeakably evil.

 

[rygD]

Meanwhile, in the United States...

 

[AnimatedFreak]

The problem with Sweden is the deabte that should be taking place not just about immigration but of everything, it has been witheld and incredibly effectivly silenced.

You hit the nail with that one.

 

[levi]

Europe have not the responsibility to financially support Africa nd middle east, we have not the resposibility to build houses for them in our contries, it should be clear to all by now this is not a question about refugess, its not a question of allowing migration, so the real question is: What is "multiculture" suppose to lead to? If you look to history the awnser is clearly WAR...

It's long been the position of the wealthy countries that it is their responsibility to help less well off places, because it's not the fault of people there that they were born there, and because a pound (or a euro, whatever) increases the quality of life of a rural farmer in ethiopia more than it does to pretty much anyone here. Of course, that's an ideal view, and in the real world the lack of security in some of these countries means that poor farmers having money suddenly just meant that some farmers decided to beat up other farmers so they could have their money too, and quickly things got out of hand. I can't say that we wouldn't have had warlords if we didn't have foreign aid, but it's certainly been a contributory factor as far as I've heard.

It's the position of the UK government that they don't want to even build enough houses for the people already here (both those that have been here since they were born, and more recent immigrants), so building houses in advance to house new immigrants seems unlikely to happen here.

It's odd that London has been able to take on significant numbers of different cultures and work together, and my drinking circle encompassed the Greek, the Indians, the Colombians, the Ecuadoreans, the Finnish and the Swedish on different occasions. Other parts of the country are more likely to focus on ghetto towns and areas, and overblown stories about those places spread out much further than the reality of living with different cultures does, such that some of the places that voted more for brexit in last year's referendum (for which the reasoning for voting leave was mostly focussed around immigration, it seems) the places with the fewest immigrants actually voted more for brexit. Even more than all the immigrants voting for the status quo would skew things - more light skinned native voters voted to leave than to remain in some of those places.

It's very odd. I guess the thing that's skewed London to a degree is money, so the trains and tubes and buses are frequent and easy to use to the degree that I didn't consider buying a car when I lived there - it was simply uneconomical to own one. Elsewhere that's not the case, and it helps ensure different cultures stay more apart and don't mix so much.

 

[asdf334]

Here is what I'm seeing in the states.. Previously safe places are now foreign and dangerous. A public library is no longer a good place to leave the kids. These weirdos just take over various areas , locals avoid them and the place is just ruined. Ruined in two senses 1) physically they trash the place leaving behind garbage and ruined remains and 2) the once beautuful playground, park, shopping center is now a dangerous ghetto.

Before where children could run around in children's play area now must to wait for prayer time to be completed. Security guards are hired to keep the peace. Children are violent and criminal. It would appear that there goal is to take over an area and remain isolated in that area.

They do not interact with the locals except to accept any and every every free service that is provided (free classes, child care, free food events, even Christian church events). They are quick to play the victim card, but I've never seen it work.

Americans seldom have hang-ups about talking about them openly, they might mention having compassion, but will not shy away from the facts once presented to them. Someone might say that we need compassion for somali refugees, until you point out that they are not from Somalia; or help disinfranchised women until you point out that it is women doctors performing gential mutations.

One question I have is who/what is the voice of the counter resistance?
[doublepost=1509427901,1509425578][/doublepost]The reason I wanted to ask Swedish people specifically is this: The Swedes I have met have been very nationalist, very proud of their history, and very open to telling Americans just exactly how and why Sweden is such a great country. And coincidentally the Swedish people I have met seem to be quite intelligent. Meanwhile what I'm seeing on the alternate news is a different world, Swedes throwing away their culture, insulting their own heritage, infrastructure abandoned to unknown strangers, streets and houses ruined, police and firemen unable to function, all while they celebrating their downfall. Complete reversal of everything I understood Swedes to be. So weird...

 

[levi]

I miss the days when all 'alt' was was a key on your keyboard and a usenet prefix for all things weird and wonderful.

 

[asdf334]

I miss the days when all 'alt' was was a key on your keyboard and a usenet prefix for all things weird and wonderful.

The only Alt-thing I see here is how hard Swedes are pushing their heads in the sand. Alt-Ignore or Alt-Trust-Our-Government the rest of the discussion is the natural reaction to getting raped and robbed by foreigners.

 

[slaeshjag]

Ah, that must be what I read about in the news the other day, about the american misinformation about what the situation is like here. That Alt-facts fad you have over there is quite a thing, eh?

 

[Klumpen]

There is no debate in Sweden, there is a saying "the truth is usually somewere inbetween" meaning both/all sides of a case will say what benefits their own agenda. For something resembling the truth to be discovered I think all sides must be heard and a real debate take place. In Sweden there is no debate allowed in media, and all political parties are in agree with eachother about what stance to take, except one party wich is shamed in all media to no extent and there is basically a war against anyone that would vote for them, and its always referenced how the nazis killed jews in second world war as if the "Swedendemocrats" would suddenly start to build concentration camps and execute jews, when a lot of their party members are in fact jews... But its scare tactics to crush the little "opposition" there is. The problem with Sweden is the deabte that should be taking place not just about immigration but of everything, it has been witheld and incredibly effectivly silenced. But from my experience the average people are not scared anymore, they have lost it completly, one after another is speaking out and not caring about the consequences anymore wich can be the loss of your job but also tearing apart of familys thats how much this issue matters to some people. Everyone wants to be good people, and the media have made it clear what you must do to be good, now the media is doing financially worse every day that goes by, people are giving up and admitting what has happened has not been good for anyone.
Europe have not the responsibility to financially support Africa nd middle east, we have not the resposibility to build houses for them in our contries, it should be clear to all by now this is not a question about refugess, its not a question of allowing migration, so the real question is: What is "multiculture" suppose to lead to? If you look to history the awnser is clearly WAR...
Also, in Sweden I would be branded as a NAZI for saying all this and risc loosing my job, be beaten up and have family brake up with me. The migration is one of many things your not allowed to debate in Sweden, simply wanting to have a debate is considered nazi and unspeakably evil.

Same in Germany.

 

[Caine]

It used to be like that in the Netherlands as well. Not anymore though.

 

[asdf334]

Ah, that must be what I read about in the news the other day, about the american misinformation about what the situation is like here. That Alt-facts fad you have over there is quite a thing, eh?

I think the stories about rape being caused mostly by migrates is probably accurate. The legalization of child marriage, the police station getting blown up, migrants assaulting tv journalists as they try to talk to migrants.. I assume that all of these stories are all true.

 

[slaeshjag]

It is illegal to marry under the age of 18 (as of 2015, possible with special permits before,) although in some cases (from the sources I can find, single digit numbers per year) acklowledged when done abroad, but only if neither had any connection with Sweden at the time.
There is currently as of last few weeks a wave of attacks against police stations. I have not heard of anything suggesting it's not just a case of criminals being criminals.
Migrants assulting journalists might be true. Can't think of any partucular case.

And while we're at it; there's apparently a lot of reports of "no-go zones". While there certianly zones that are especially troublesome, and with the occasional riots dangerous, pretty much all of which having a large proportion of immigrants in them, I would not fear for my life walking through them. Women might want to think twice doing it at night alone, but that also goes for any area with a lot of drunks around. Any such voilence is rarely against outsiders, and the exceptions are generally limited to whoever tries to stop them. It can't be worse than Detroit?