Android Yes/No (Split from Some more of my ideas thread)

[pmprog]

Software on Android isn't free? What are you talking about? You could drown in free apps..

The argument above was about the OS, not apps on it.

 

[SNESFAN]

@ekianjo- google apps != android, there are plenty of alternatives to every one of the gapps if you don't want to use it. I can write a closed source application for the pandora that could be seen as essential to the experience like if I made a better PND manager or something. The argument has too much preference involved.

Ahh yes, the "my license is better than your license" argument. _wb_ actually educated me on this one a while back. It's the problem with using the Apache license right? You're correct. It's still open source and free as in money software. You can download and compile the software completely risk free. You can even redistribute your source based off the original source if you choose to, (and google does quite often) but you're not required to. that=evil

respecting people's choice to contribute or not is the point at hand I guess.

 

[FaeMinx]

Ok I misunderstood. A facepalm is warranted. 

But i'm starting to get that this is like a spiritual ideal, that it's all about principles.

Which I suppose is fine. Perhaps it's a war worth fighting. Who am I to say?

But funnily enough, having android as an option may just get you a convert or two down the road.

I could say it's counter productive to have an elitist attitude where people from other camps aren't welcome... but I would be a bit of a hypocrite because I absolutely refuse to use any Apple product and have caught myself actively trying to sway other's away from Apple purchases.

 

[SNESFAN]

^I like iOS stuff too. I own an ipad it's pretty nifty. It's quick to do casual stuff and has lots of eye candy and stuff just works without fiddling around with options and settings. I take most stuff at face value and leave a lot of misconceptions and preconceived notions at the door. I also use windows and linux. I find linux to be rather useful but clunky, unstable and harder to do things that are just easier (GUI'er) to do on windows from my experience. It may be doing exactly what I'm telling it to, but I might not have wanted it to do what I told it. I don't however like OSX not because of what it says about me as a user, but I find it both clunkier and more restrictive than both windows or linux, even if it looks nice, I find it to be lipstick on a pig.

I do have an added note though about FOSS vs OSS. The pandora has some closed off bits as well, not just not free, but closed source drivers. So the FOSS flag should only be waived at 3/4 mast. Another thing, I successfully ported and got opendingux to boot on a shield using their FOSS linux kernel. It doesn't work exactly the way I want it to but it was simple enough to edit and get it all working with some configuration changes. I have still to this day been unable to get a complete image for the pandora up and booting for the intended hardware, let alone trying to dive into getting it to run on another device like the shield. While the source may be open and free, it's far from being easily obtainable and compileable in a bootable configuration. I may not be an expert, but I'm no idiot when it comes to these things. I've built android for many devices from source for the code designed for that hardware on multiple pieces of hardware. But I can not figure out angstrom and I've been trying off and on the entire time I've owned the pandora. So having some essential code being completely closed, and other code being obscure to obtain and build I think the FOSS flag on the pandora should be lowered to maybe half mast. Hopefully the entire situation changes.

 

[notaz]

I'm fairly certain that at one point someone was paid something for the development of the OS and firmware. That may no longer be the case (maintenance) but I'm sure at one point it was true. That money had to come from somewhere.

FYI nobody was paid unless you count some devboards and pandoras as a payment. Or maybe you meant some companies sponsoring development of some Linux components? That often is pulled into Android too.

Edit: Actually there was one person paid by Craig, it was wifi driver contractor that ended with absolutely no results.

 

[Klumpen]

I thought, Android is bloatware and you nerdies detest bloatware, especially on mobile devices with limited performance and battery?

 

[_wb_]

I do have an added note though about FOSS vs OSS. The pandora has some closed off bits as well, not just not free, but closed source drivers. So the FOSS flag should only be waived at 3/4 mast. Another thing, I successfully ported and got opendingux to boot on a shield using their FOSS linux kernel. It doesn't work exactly the way I want it to but it was simple enough to edit and get it all working with some configuration changes. I have still to this day been unable to get a complete image for the pandora up and booting for the intended hardware, let alone trying to dive into getting it to run on another device like the shield. While the source may be open and free, it's far from being easily obtainable and compileable in a bootable configuration. I may not be an expert, but I'm no idiot when it comes to these things. I've built android for many devices from source for the code designed for that hardware on multiple pieces of hardware. But I can not figure out angstrom and I've been trying off and on the entire time I've owned the pandora. So having some essential code being completely closed, and other code being obscure to obtain and build I think the FOSS flag on the pandora should be lowered to maybe half mast. Hopefully the entire situation changes.

You do know what FOSS and OSS stand for, right? It's Free & Open Source Software. The difference between Free Software, Open Source Software and FOSS is negligible.

The Pandora firmware is completely FOSS, the only exception being some binary blobs in the GPU and wifi drivers. You can get the sources from http://git.openpandora.org.

What sources are you missing?

 

[SNESFAN]

I do understand the difference between free open source software and open source software. I agree, the difference is negligible, you've done a good job in the past of explaining that most of the hate towards android was only because of that negligible difference. The differences in license. Both are completely open for independent development, it is mainly just to do with the rules of what has to happen when it comes to giving it to other people.

Anyway, the exception of those drivers is still a difference that means I couldn't (if I knew how) modify it's code even if I wanted to. While mostly free and open, not all of it is either free nor open. Much like most devices out there, there's some limits on how far down it's nose it can look at other options. That's all I'm saying.

I was looking for it, but I can't find it and I guess it's not a requirement that working instructions be made available to compile the given open source code. I can't find it, so I guess it doesn't exist so I take that comment back. I still wish someone would fix the build process from the guide made in 2007. The new yars revenge build process works fairly well from what I can tell though.

@notaz- nobody got paid? I could have sworn I remember someone saying they did or were supposed to see some money from their work on the original image. It might have been the "dev fund" that ended up being donations anyway.

 

[rohezal]

Well - there are various apps that aren't games. I know many people who use android phones just for this reason and dont do any gaming at all.

True whatsapp is a major selling factor.

I still think a boot os which lets you choose to install linux or to install a dualboot (android and linux) is best. Maybe download Android from replicant and apply patches so we have not to pay license fees.

 

[vcoleiro1]

So new poll, why not, we need more polls

 

[notaz]

@notaz- nobody got paid? I could have sworn I remember someone saying they did or were supposed to see some money from their work on the original image.

Nope. Feel free to prove me wrong by digging up whatever you're (mis)remembering.

It might have been the "dev fund" that ended up being donations anyway.

..which Craig later proclaimed it was all used to fund early prototypes he did. In the end it turned out to be his way of exploiting generosity of OSS enthusiasts, nothing more.

 

[vcoleiro1]

^ I hope you will be payed for the P2.  

 

[comradekingu]

What if I had the same stance on linux? saying I don't want to pay for any linux distro to be supported. You're forcing me to pay for something I might not use. It doesn't work the other way around does it? It's one of those needed options. I feel android is one of those needed options as well.

Then your argument isnt particularly strong in favour of android, which is linux. The real difference is the GNU part. Its going to be a linux distro, and its going to be one you can use in any way you want (GNU)

Your option is to make changes, compile android, then package it up and release it. If you ask really nicely maybe you could get a device that hasnt been flashed with anything. That is the better option to getting into legal trouble and additionally possibly having to flash different images on different units.

Its not an apples to oranges because one has legal implications, unfortunately.

 

[WizardStan]

Nope. Feel free to prove me wrong by digging up whatever you're (mis)remembering

Not able to find the 3ish year old quote, but Craig (take with a grain or two of salt) did mention paying someone to work on the wifi driver and getting nothing out of it.That's the only payment I remember for anything OS related.

 

[LTStone]

^ Shadowgun, Riptide , Ashphalt 8 Airborne, Dead Trigger 2 , Grand Theft Auto, Nova 3 , AVP Evolution etc are all good.  I particularly like Nova 3

Hey vcoleiro you ever play nova 3 online? controls are a bit stiff and I suck but its pretty fun.