An other CPU discussion. Rockchip RK3399 sounds good


ptitSeb

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Btw, I have an ODroid N1, that use the RK-3399, and yeah, it's fast, and doesn't seems to heat too much (less than the ODroid XU4 for example). The integrated fan barrely start to spin for a few sec when launch some heavy compile or launch an (heavy) OpenGL game.
 

KidPaddle

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Where get you a "ODROID-N1"?

I have looked for it, but no release date and no shop i found. With two sata ports and 4GB memory it's nice for small nas systems or, with more, i will do some tests with a distributed web application, which I'm developing for a customer.

Thomas
 

Askarus

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Woah, you got a pre-production unit?
Cool.
Are you involved in some Odroid developement?
[doublepost=1529511343,1529511292][/doublepost]
Can we get a Helio X30?
I would love it.

But the Rockchip might have a lot better community support
 

Grench

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But the Rockchip might have a lot better community support
But the Rockchip RK3399 as noted above is made on the same generation 28nm process as the Pyra's OMAP 5432. There may be performance differences between the two, but moving from one to the other isn't going to be a shift of magnitude.

The Pyra needs to make the most out of the OMAP, sell many units -then- consider an SoC upgrade. The RK3399 is already 'old tech'.
Code:
https://www.cnx-software.com/2016/10/15/samsung-chromebook-pro-powered-by-rockchip-rk3399-soc-to-sell-for-499/
If we're going to have an honest discussion now about what would be good to have then, we should be looking at stuff made on a ~14nm process so that the performance gains and battery savings can be substantial enough to separate the new SoC from the old SoC such that enough of us will buy it to justify the ~year or so that it will take to develop it.

Instead of looking at A72 SoCs, look at A73 SoCs built on <=16nm processes.
Kirin 970 (10nm) released Q4 2017
Helio X30 (10nm)
Helio P60 (12nm)
...????... what else is out?
 

Askarus

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Don't get me wrong, I'd love a Cortex A73 or A75 processor.
I only consider that it's hard to get a SoC and the Rockchip might be easily available.

But you are right with one thing: We need to get the most out of the OMAP first.
[doublepost=1529522042,1529521271][/doublepost]Helio P60
Looks nice.
But does it have all the peripherals we need? That's even more important than performance.
 

Grench

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Dev board for Kirin 970 was announced a while back:
Code:
https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-linaro-hikey-970-development-board-kirin-970-soc/
$299 each:
Code:
http://www.lenovator.com/product/135.html
 

hns

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Here is something new for all those of you who want to start developing "An other CPU board" for the Pyra:

Hey, what is this?

Basically it is a Pyra Mainboard that you can operate more stand-alone on your workbench than a real Pyra.
The keyboard and battery interface has been removed, an optional Ethernet added (instead of Modem) and everything is on a single-sided (still multi-layer) PCB.
Display connector has been replaced by solder points for the MIPI interface.
Power is supplied through a µUSB or USB-C socket.
Otherwise (USB, Audio, HDMI, µSD + 2SD slots, WLAN/BT) it is almost compatible to the Pyra mainboard.

What can it be used for?

Some ideas (you certainly have more):
* test board for Pyra-OMAP5 boards
* development board for designing and testing new Pyra-CPUs without needing to disassemble a Pyra
* make use of your old Pyra-CPU board when a new one becomes available
* tablet computer (glue to backside of a bigger MIPI or HDMI display)
* gang programmer for 2-3 (µ)SD cards
* headless ARM computer
* ARM-PC (put in case and connect HDMI display, keyboard, mouse, SATA drive, Ethernet, WLAN/BT)
* NAS (Ethernet, WLAN)
* SATA to USB3 converter
* experimental driver for MIPI panels

What about availability and cost?

Currently, I have build 3 prototypes (which need a little polishing but work).
If you want some, it is just a matter of ca. 4 weeks to build them (in prototype quality and quantity).
Prototype quantities means the price is quite high (because we have quite some fixed cost overhead), but IMHO still ok.

I have not done a final calculation but here is my current estimate:

180€ Basic (power, SD slots, USB, HDMI, buttons, LEDs, audio, header for FTDI cable)
+12€ FT232
+30€ WLAN/BT 2.4GHz only
+60€ WLAN/BT 2.4+5.8GHz
+24€ Ethernet
(it would be possible to reduce cost by removing USB or audio or HDMI but then you lack important interfaces)

Note that the Pyra-OMAP5 CPU board ("Letux Cortex 15") is NOT included but we plan to sell them separately.
Maybe we can make use of those PCBs that have not been optimized for 4GB RAM here.

Software support?

LetuxOS provides an U-Boot and Kernel that supports this board and then you can install e.g. Debian
(or Ubuntu or PyraOS) in what flavour you like.

Where can I find more information?

http://download.goldelico.com/DragonFly/files/LC15EVM Presentation.pdf

And of course: please ask...
 
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levi

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Nice, I proposed a pyra derivative device that looks like a retro 8- or 16-bit computer (a keyboard with a bit at the back). You could pop this in the corner of a case like that, and maybe have a flap on the underside so you could still access the SD cards occasionally.

Actually, what's the front/back dimension of this thing? Maybe with modern compact switched mode PSUs we could cram that and the board under the keyboard itself, and have basically a smart keyboard but with a proper selection of ports at the back and side, and a little cut out for the SD cards.

It's interesting that you've split out power and debug console on this thing. What sort of power connector does it take? The socket on the board doesn't look like any microUSB socket I've seen, perhaps it's USB-C?

What's the EEPROM on this thing do by the way? I thought just providing basic power to a CPU board would be enough to get a system up and running and looking for an OS. Does the Pyra mainboard also have an EEPROM like this?

Also, I'm interested in all those exposed traces running next to the ground plane under that CPU board in one of the shots in the pdf. Most if not all of them are signal or ground lines from the CPU board connectors either side I guess, which I suppose means placement of metal topped CPUs like the RK3399 on the CPU board would need careful consideration to not short them out.
 

hns

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Actually, what's the front/back dimension of this thing?
100x135mm wide and ca. 10mm thick (unless Ethernet port is installed, then 17mm).
What sort of power connector does it take? The socket on the board doesn't look like any microUSB socket I've seen, perhaps it's USB-C?
It is USB-C for power and µUSB for the console. It is planned to make that swappable by resoldering 0R.
Having a single socket for both is also possible, but difficult to use (the board boots as soon as power is plugged in so your PC must be quick in detecting that the FT232 has appeared on USB).
What's the EEPROM on this thing do by the way? I thought just providing basic power to a CPU board would be enough to get a system up and running and looking for an OS. Does the Pyra mainboard also have an EEPROM like this?
It currently has no function. You could store U-Boot environment in it, e.g. default Ethernet address so that it is the same if you boot from eMMC or any SD card. Pyra mainboard could have one but we have not installed it.
Also, I'm interested in all those exposed traces running next to the ground plane under that CPU board in one of the shots in the pdf.
That was a layout / production data bug for prototyping... In the final version they will all be covered by stop mask.
 

EvilDragon

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Interesting. Samsung EOLed that memory chip January already (it's the one we use, that's why I know that), it's weird that they cancel it 6 months later.
And there's a replacement available: IM8G16D3FCBG-15E
Hmm...
 

KidPaddle

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Fully stocked between 250 and 280 €, less than I expected.

I am always interested, maybe we get an aggregated order.
 
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Askarus

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Interesting. Samsung EOLed that memory chip January already (it's the one we use, that's why I know that), it's weird that they cancel it 6 months later.
And there's a replacement available: IM8G16D3FCBG-15E
Hmm...
Maybe it's also an other reason and they wanted to use that speculative Amlogic S922 SoC which might have a Cortex A75 processor.

I have never heard of Amlogic. Did we evaluate their SoCs? Is it possible to buy them?

Regarding any Processor, maybe we could make a deal with one of those SBC manufacturers and get whatever Processor they use.
 

rSl

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Nice, I proposed a pyra derivative device that looks like a retro 8- or 16-bit computer (a keyboard with a bit at the back). You could pop this in the corner of a case like that, and maybe have a flap on the underside so you could still access the SD cards occasionally.
i take one, please!

how feasable is it to apply a heatsink on the cpu-module?
maybe with a thermal-pad bringing the heat from the lower to the upper side and then attach a sink on top?

and... big thanks to hns for this new beauty! :)
 

Bernd

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The board looks fine.

I think I have to order one of this boards in near future.
Is it possible to switch the power-connection with a "real" connection like a barrel plug?

I know its good to be able to test new board in realistic thermal conditions.
But wouldn't it be good to have a cut out in the board to be able to mount a heat sink directly on the main processor?
The resulting mini board could be used for add on boards like 12V to ...V DC/DC converter, RS232-converter, I2C converter, I2C/TWI converter, GPIO input protection, GPIO Level shifter,...
 

klapse

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levi

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The board looks fine.

I think I have to order one of this boards in near future.
Is it possible to switch the power-connection with a "real" connection like a barrel plug?
Code:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XP88DPB
I wasn't able to find a no-name adaptor so this is rather expensive for what it is, but it is at least available at time of writing.

I know its good to be able to test new board in realistic thermal conditions.
But wouldn't it be good to have a cut out in the board to be able to mount a heat sink directly on the main processor?
I don't know how many layers this board has, but I suspect there's some interconnects running underneath that copper pad, and losing board real-estate and having to reroute them and put the same number of traces into a smaller space isn't always easy.
The resulting mini board could be used for add on boards like 12V to ...V DC/DC converter, RS232-converter, I2C converter, I2C/TWI converter, GPIO input protection, GPIO Level shifter,...
You've lost me here. Why not have GPIO based devices attached to the GPIO pins, and so on? Sure a DC/DC convertor will need some cooling, so they could share a radiator, but it may be simpler from a mechanical and an operational point of view to just have two.
 
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