All Refunds Not Sent Yet

[Nightwind0]

PEOPLE come ON!! I'm pretty much as skeptical as you can get, but please.... people have started getting refunds, they got EXACTLY what they put in, when converted to/from British Pounds.

 

[j.pickens]

Either way Im annoyed and further more am leaning toward real action.

"Real Action", about what, precisely?
If you preordered and don't like what's going on, you can get a refund.
You may then lose the amount of money which represents the change in currency exchange rates.
There is nothing anyone can do about this.
Believe me, there are millions of folks in Iceland and the UK who wish the currency devaluation would just be absorbed by their banks and governments, but they realize that wishes aren't reality.
There has been a world-wide financial meltdown, in case you haven't noticed.
The Pandora people lose money when you cancel an order, they don't make a dime on the currency issues.

 

[gaterooze]

We'll see how charitable you'll feel if you end up shelling out $350 and end up with nothing to show for it. I think that possibility is a very real concern given how things have been handled up until now.

Frankly, that's utter nonsense. I would gladly order a second, perhaps even a third Pandora TODAY.

zeropro, what exactly would you want to achieve? The cost of litigation would be ten times the amount you could ever hope to recover, even in a class action.

j.pickens: yikes, your bank really gouges for international transfers! I'm sure mine is only $10-15.

 

[j.pickens]

We'll see how charitable you'll feel if you end up shelling out $350 and end up with nothing to show for it.


If that's what you think will happen, you can request a refund.
Where is the problem, exactly?

j.pickens: yikes, your bank really gouges for international transfers! I'm sure mine is only $10-15.

Yeah, small local bank, they do charge alot.
Looks like I could have used the online bill payment feature for free, but I didn't want to chance it.
Anybody else try paying by online check?

 

[ShyGuy]

Interesting to note, it's also PayPal's policy to refund at current exchange rates 24 hours after purchases (instead of the original exchange rate), for the same reason everyone's been touting: if they refunded at the original exchange rate, they'd frequently lose money.

IANAL, but this appears to me as poor man's verification it's not illegal, and fully logical. If anyone can prove otherwise, please come forward with your evidence.

You guys are asking for an impossible gift.

 

[zeropro]

GunPei2X : What you said is true but unfortunately if i go that route it wont just be for a simple refund. Look, Im not wanting this to appear as an idle threat. What I'm looking for is some truth to come to light and as of yet nobody has said a word and that is insulting and disturbing. ShyGuy that's if you send money not buy from a reliable merchant. I know because I have this type of acct.

 

[Chairman_Now]

We'll see how charitable you'll feel if you end up shelling out $350 and end up with nothing to show for it. I think that possibility is a very real concern given how things have been handled up until now.

Frankly, that's utter nonsense. I would gladly order a second, perhaps even a third Pandora TODAY.

Please explain to me why that is utter nonsense. Because CraigX is a really nice guy?

I've given more than a few reasons, previously in this thread, why it is a real concern. To recap:

• Slipped deadlines
• Dodgy financial dealings
• Promises of refunds with no subsequent refund
• Email sent from a generic provider requesting sensitive financial information
• Involuntary monetary loss inflicted on early buyers
• Oh, and a request to sent money via wire xfer - the most risky way to pay anyone anything.

Add it all up, and you have the appearance of impropriety.

And should such appearance of impropriety continue, it'd make sense to do a chargeback, get back 100% of the monies paid, despite any currency issues, and walk away.

If enough buyers choose to do that, well, it probably wouldn't be a good thing. I suggest that the folks behind Pandora start to act more like a professional outfit before such a thing happens.

 

[gaterooze]

And should such appearance of impropriety continue, it'd make sense to do a chargeback, get back 100% of the monies paid, despite any currency issues, and walk away.

If enough buyers choose to do that, well, it probably wouldn't be a good thing. I suggest that the folks behind Pandora start to act more like a professional outfit before such a thing happens.

A chargeback for something you've already been refunded for? Good luck trying to convince your credit provider.

As for the rest of your silliness, for a start 1/3 of the preorders were not through GBAX so they have not been refunded. Add that to the capital invested by OP (including mortgages against their own homes, cars and personal property), it's been suggested that they have enough to fund production even if every single refunded person didn't reorder.

I definitely believe ED when he says there is nothing that can stop the Pandora being released now and that the banking issues won't effect that. For many years he has been an absolutely honest and generous benefactor, I would trust him over a Microsoft or Sony any day of the week.

zeropro: I agree, I'd love to know the bank's identity and juicy gossip, however I assume there are legal implications for them discussing it. Hopefully it will all come to light in the future.

 

[ShyGuy]

Regarding Chairman's latest post:

If this was a scam, they would have taken the money and run with it already. Craig's been running GBAX a long time, we've seen dev boards, we've heard from devs who've received said boards (and now we have benchmarks that are in line or more impressive than our expectations). If you did all that work in developing a product, would you not continue producing it instead of running off with what relatively small amount you could get from the first few preorders?

Look, I'm not saying it's not a possibility, it just seems extremely far-fetched. What we've been told is a hell of a lot more believable, if unfortunate.

zeropro: I'm asking this out of nothing but dubious fascination, but what questions are you specifically seeking answers to? You only signed up yesterday after all, so it's quite possible you may have missed something.

EDIT'd for a little less pissiness.

 

[Nightwind0]

Regarding Chairman's latest post:

If this was a scam, they would have taken the money and run with it already. Craig's been running GBAX a long time, we've seen dev boards, we've heard from devs who've received said boards (and now we have benchmarks that are in line or more impressive than our expectations). If you did all that work in developing a product, would you not continue producing it instead of running off with what relatively small amount you could get from the first few preorders?

Look, I'm not saying it's not a possibility, it just seems extremely far-fetched. What we've been told is a hell of a lot more believable, if unfortunate.

zeropro: I'm asking this out of nothing but dubious fascination, but what questions are you specifically seeking answers to? You only signed up yesterday after all, so it's quite possible you may have missed something.

EDIT'd for a little less pissiness.

I feel the same way. If it were a scam, it would be an overly elaborate scam. They have the money, why bother with refunds and crap like that? And why host forums for the people being scammed to talk on?? And why put up blogs, and send out units.... it's nonsense.

Maybe its not a very professionally run thing. I can see that. But they are kind of just starting out and they clearly have not worked out the kinks. We're early adopters. Early adoption means taking some risks.

 

[zeropro]

Shy: I only signed up yesterday to post, I've been following this every step of the way, as this forum is open to the public

 

[ShyGuy]

Reasonable enough. I am interested in what's got you so riled up though. Worst case scenario you don't reorder and you lose ~$30-50 due to exchange rate fluctuations. Sucks hard, but that money goes to nobody.

 

[Chairman_Now]

And should such appearance of impropriety continue, it'd make sense to do a chargeback, get back 100% of the monies paid, despite any currency issues, and walk away.

A chargeback for something you've already been refunded for? Good luck trying to convince your credit provider.

Let me try again: There are a sizable number of people that have gotten the REFUND EMAIL, but NOT the REFUND. I am one of those people. Everyone that I know that also ordered is one of those people. We all ordered the first day.

This is very disturbing to me. It does not instill me with confidence.

I can do a chargeback. If I do, I'll get back the full dollar amount I spent. The dollar is stronger now, and that means that it'll cost someone some extra pounds on the other end.

Even if I had gotten a refund, I could chargeback the difference. The net effect would be the same.

The Pandora folks could see hundreds of people charging back such that they are dinged 20 or 30 pounds per chargeback. I assume that this would not be a good outcome.

Regarding Chairman's latest post:
If this was a scam, they would have taken the money and run with it already.

I feel the same way. If it were a scam, it would be an overly elaborate scam. They have the money, why bother with refunds and crap like that? And why host forums for the people being scammed to talk on?? And why put up blogs, and send out units.... it's nonsense.

Maybe its not a very professionally run thing. I can see that.

You folks are really missing the point. To make it clear: yes, I believe that there is a major competence issue here, and that no one set out to scam anyone. Nonetheless, the level of competence is getting so low as to give the appearance of impropriety. It is becoming willful incompetence.

The problem with dealing with incompetence of this level is that it often turns into real mischief. Again, the folks behind this project had better put some effort into addressing these concerns or things will go south.

 

[ShyGuy]

Exactly how many updates do you want? We already know the bank is handling the refunds while Craig & co are attempting to email accordingly. It's out of their hands. We got a giant update from Craig four days ago. We got an "all clear" on refunds (which was unfortunately short, for whatever reason) just a couple days ago.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I certainly don't expect a higher level of "competence" from a team of this size whose hands are already full working on the device you preordered.

Shit. If I ever develop something like this I'm doing it in private. Craig was fucking insane.

 

[gaterooze]

Let me try again: There are a sizable number of people that have gotten the REFUND EMAIL, but NOT the REFUND. I am one of those people. Everyone that I know that also ordered is one of those people. We all ordered the first day.

I'm in the same boat, but I'm not worried. The refund has been passed on to the bank to process, and they're sloooow. A lot of people HAVE received their refunds. Big deal. Just wait. Or do a chargeback if you're that bloody impatient. You'll be waiting just as long.

 

[Chairman_Now]

Or do a chargeback if you're that bloody impatient.

I'm going to follow your advice. You've convinced me.

My bank informs me that my full dollar amount will be refunded, and that the equivalent in GBP will be deducted from the seller's accounts.

Given the exchange rate today, and I had no idea how low the GBP had gotten, that means that my canceled order will deduct about 244 GBP from the seller. The seller now has to eat 47 GBP loss.

All done. I suggest that all US orders do exactly the same thing. Perhaps the Pandora folks will wake up to how badly they've botched this.

 

[taltoris]

I thought I was safe. And then I got my refund email today. So it looks like a few are still trickling out.

 

[Nightwind0]

Or do a chargeback if you're that bloody impatient.

I'm going to follow your advice. You've convinced me.

My bank informs me that my full dollar amount will be refunded, and that the equivalent in GBP will be deducted from the seller's accounts.

Given the exchange rate today, and I had no idea how low the GBP had gotten, that means that my canceled order will deduct about 244 GBP from the seller. The seller now has to eat 47 GBP loss.

All done. I suggest that all US orders do exactly the same thing. Perhaps the Pandora folks will wake up to how badly they've botched this.

Nobody is perfect, this is all new to them. I'm staying in. I'm not worried, nor am I impatient.

 

[lobski]

Um, is the re-re-re-order page up yet?

 

[DAP]

So far I have not received the e-mail, or the refund. These reports of late e-mails do not make me feel safe from it though.

An "in the clear" e-mail would be very much appreciated.

Well my reorder e-mail arrived (I no longer need to check my e-mail with dread).

This screw up is about what I would expect when a bunch of hardware engineers attempt to deal with the business world.

On the other hand, if a bunch of business men attempted to design the pandora, the screwups would have been much worse! (just look at the competition )

Now, where is that credit card reorder page?