All Refunds Not Sent Yet

[Ryzure]

When will the credit card reorder page be up? I'm starting to lose my patients.

 

[gaterooze]

When will the credit card reorder page be up? I'm starting to lose my patience

It doesn't really matter when it's up, our places for preorder units are being kept. My guess though, is that it will be up around 30 days prior to when they expect to ship the first units.

 

[zeropro]

Have absorbed everything here and while some interesting points have been made, ie. exchange rates etc. There are still pertinent facts that remain. First.. No reliable online merchant should be pegging the value of there goods to the floating exchange rate..In fact 99% dont. I dont care who you are or where you are in the world, if you order from say an amazon.com and request a refund you get back exactly what you paid. For those that keep mentioning "having an intelligent conversation" prove me wrong, but i know 100% you cant. Secondly the "bitching and moaning" wouldnt be so strong if the team was upfront about things WHEN THEY HAPPENED instead of leaving people to doubt. Thirdly, and the one I think most people are forgetting because I fall in this category. Several of the buyers were NOT part of the GP32 community before hand. You see there is this thing called publicity and when it spreads regular old consumers like myself are affected. I learned of this device from engadget, read the sales page and jumped in to the water. Unfortunately it appears that this device was not ready for this type of exposure, while water under the bridge now, the device should have at least been at the boxed stage before pushing for traffic and pr from such high profile places. With the crumbling situation this could indeed mean very bad things for the project, if the articles are "updated" so to speak. I dont wish that, but I do want every penny of my money back and will push at no end for that resolution

 

[gruso]

^ Just to clarify one point, at no point did OpenPandora themselves push for any PR. The digg/slashdot effect that brought down servers and ultimately caused the payment problems was 100% community driven. That means you, me, and the thousands of others who tried to secure their order in the first hours.

It took them by surprise, yes, and things kinda fell apart. :lol: At least they know what to expect next time.

 

[paolo]

You paid, e.g. 199 pounds. This was calculated at current exchange rates as, e.g. US$330 and removed from your account.

You were refunded *199 pounds*. This was calculated at current exchange rates as, e.g. US$300 and added to your account.

When you reorder, you will pay 199 pounds. This will be calculated at current exchange rates as, e.g. US$300.17 and removed from your account.





Possibly true, I didn't take serious calculations since I don't care as I know I would have reordered no matter what... but on my Visa credit card issuer site, the voice "pandora refund XXX €" popped up a week ago, but the details were also telling that the operation took place a month and a half earlier......... so technically you're right (and I stated it as well in some previous mail of mine as well) but as soon as I realized that I've not been refunded day K and going to reorder at day K+1... but got refunded at day K-40 and reordering at K+1.. it's enough timespan to sense the monetary drop. Eventually.

 

[ShyGuy]

zeropro: I'm sorry if I offended you; I realize now my tone was a little too harsh and I apologize. However, I also got into the project days before the preorder began. I knew what I was getting into when I ordered my Pandora: I was funding the final development and production of a Sony/Nintendo-quality handheld developed by a very small team. As someone who's dealt with a number of startups myself (and lost over $15k at one point), I understand these growing pains and I'm willing to allow a wide berth to the team.

I want to see this project succeed, and I can't wait to receive my Pandora. For that reason, I admit, I get a little scared at the prospect of a few people ruining it for the rest of us (which is quite possible if too many charge backs are requested).

 

[gorman]

I truly cannot believe how foolish some people are being about this. Why the hell did you preorder such an ambitious project in the first place if this is how you react to the slightest hiccup? I mean, really, what is the big deal? As an individual, you simply have to resend your order (2 minutes work) and you might be out $10, however in exchange you will be getting *double the RAM and NAND*.

If 2 minutes of effort to enter your details again and $10 is enough to make you jump ship, when you're now getting even more for your money... oy.
Sorry, but just no. We are not getting more for the money. If Pandora came out in three years while we waited and waited, they'll probably be able to upgrade all parts inside. Would that mean that we would be getting more for the money? No.
Compare the prices of CPUs, graphic cards, whatever, compare performance over time. Are you getting more for the money? No, it's just that with passing time performance costs less. It costs less for Pandora, it costs less for Nokia, BlackBerry, whatever company, really.
In technology you pay for what you get *today*. Tomorrow what you bought will be already outdated. As the wait continues we either get upgraded hardware or we get shafted for paying in advance something that has suffered serious delays.

And people bickering... on November 21st I received an e-mail stating that Pandora planned to ship the first units in December. And I still have to receive information on where to re-order by credit card.
We don't have information on how many people were affected, we don't have information on the kind of money they're out now (they refunded people and all people wanting to pay once more by credit card, I suspect the majority, still have not had the chance to give the money), we don't have firm dates for the first shipping, we don't know anything. The homepage of the product never gets updated.

Wanting to cut some slack is one thing, throwing all basic common sense out of the window is something else. I'm waiting and want to re-order but the lack of proper communication is unnerving, to say the least.

Edit: also, I double checked my credit card statements. For a Pandora and a 32GB SD card I got initially charged for Euro 381. The refund has come in at Euro 352. Meaning that if I don't reorder I'll have lost 30 Euros, just for the fun of it. And you have the face to define people foolish for getting upset? I don't know what world you are living in. In mine stuff like this ends up with class actions. Although, I stress it, I intend to reorder and I want to support this project.

 

[ShyGuy]

Class actions? Seriously, who would you sue? They refunded you the same amount they received; you ordered from a company located in the UK. They did nothing wrong (in refunding you 30 euros short - offering a precautionary statement would have been smarter). If they refunded you the full 381 euros they would be out 33 GBP. It's simply impossible for a small company like this to cover.

I don't blame you for being somewhat unnerved, but when you step back and look at the situation there hasn't been any shady dealing. GBAX is losing money off this by covering the credit card fees twice.

One other thing to mention, the orders were originally planned to start shipping sometime in November. Now they're planned to start shipping sometime in December; the only delay so far is one month. RAM doesn't become half as expensive in one month.

 

[Rathum]

Ouch. Just got the email. All is not clear yet!
Gonna check the CC later and look for refund.

Relevant details:
Chicago, IL
Friday, December 5, 2008 11:18 am CST

 

[gp32rich]

This would be funny if it weren't typically GP32x <_<

The people who should be being sued is the BANK that panicked when 3000+ orders for £200 got dropped into an account.

THEY are the problem. THEY are they reason that all this shitty mess was brought about.

GBAX have tried to be open and honest, but banks have lawyers that kept Craig&co silent.
This wasn't their choice.



I think Craig&co HAVE shot the bolt in the past week saying that all refunds are dealt with when clearly they are not.
People have emails but no refund
People have refunds but no email
And both ARE still going through the system
I hope an email is sent out stating exactly where each customer stands. Just two emails:
1. You don't need to order
2. You do need to order

And send them from a stable mailserver so they can be sure they're sent

 

[Tom`]

Okay, I now have the e-mail, but no refund.

I'm waiting for the credit card page anyway, since a direct transfer would probably be prohibitively expensive, what with me being in the US...

 

[Chairman_Now]

I knew what I was getting into when I ordered my Pandora: I was funding the final development and production of a Sony/Nintendo-quality handheld developed by a very small team. As someone who's dealt with a number of startups myself (and lost over $15k at one point), I understand these growing pains and I'm willing to allow a wide berth to the team.

I want to see this project succeed, and I can't wait to receive my Pandora.

I feel much the same way, but it looks like this project is starting to get too "amateur hour" for me.

I got the email, but no refund, as did my friend. My friend actually got an email from a google address that asked him to send them his credit card number (through email) to get things sorted.

C'mon, WTF? Show some professionalism. Send emails from a real domain, OK? Get the new ordering page up, OK? Get the refunds done, OK? I mean, they're practically inviting chargebacks at this point, and I'm on the cusp of doing it. At least that way, I don't get dinged 25% on my refund (US buyer here).

Some extra understanding is a given with a project of this nature, but things are getting (or having the appearance of being) too dodgy. I don't care how great the hardware is, or will be. The Pandora team is not a non-profit. If you're going to operate a business, operate it like a business that will instill some confidence in your customers.

 

[Olexxy]

Class actions? Seriously, who would you sue? They refunded you the same amount they received; you ordered from a company located in the UK. They did nothing wrong (in refunding you 30 euros short - offering a precautionary statement would have been smarter). If they refunded you the full 381 euros they would be out 33 GBP. It's simply impossible for a small company like this to cover.

Not that I want to enter the bitch fest about reorders (and already reordered mine btw), but still I think zeropro had a valid point when he says
QUOTE
No reliable online merchant should be pegging the value of there goods to the floating exchange rate..In fact 99% dont. I dont care who you are or where you are in the world, if you order from say an amazon.com and request a refund you get back exactly what you paid

I personnaly find it strange as well that this refund situation is not handled by the bank themselves, based on the exchanges rates at the time of the transaction. This was I thought the standard and normal way of proceeding in such a situation. Having GBAX receiving money at one point in time and ask them to send the money back at a later date does not seem like a cancelled transaction but a refund from the shop itself after acceptance of the initial transaction. That would make sense for me, the banks deciding to be very awkward about pre-orders, freezing assets with no proper justification and then not taking their responsabilities in their logic by properly doing a cancellation, but instead asking Craig to take the hit of exchange rates fluctuations... Surely a bank I will avoid in the future, and I hope Craig will give us some details one day and tell us which bank it was.

 

[Chairman_Now]

Class actions? Seriously, who would you sue? They refunded you the same amount they received; you ordered from a company located in the UK. They did nothing wrong (in refunding you 30 euros short - offering a precautionary statement would have been smarter). If they refunded you the full 381 euros they would be out 33 GBP. It's simply impossible for a small company like this to cover.

Sorry, but I think that your point is kind of silly.

The Pandora team (poorly) chose the bank that is allegedly causing these problems. I say allegedly, because there's been no accounting of what actually is behind the mess.

I suspect that the problem is simply poor planning on the part of the Pandora team. Much easier to blame an anonymous financial institution doing mysterious bad things that no one can reveal.

All the buyers did was put their trust in the Pandora team, and send their money. The buyers certainly didn't do anything wrong. Yet, they're expected to eat the result of this screw-up. This is especially true of US buyers.

Not cool. It'd be better for someone to issue an honest mea culpa, take the hit on canceled orders, and just move on. People make mistakes, and such mistakes can be forgiven.

 

[sterling976]

Received my refund email today.

I don't know if it's relevant to progress or completion of the refund process, but figured I might as well provide some detail to fuel the rampant speculation that seems to drive these boards:

Austin, TX USA.
Ordered late in the evening on Fri Oct 3, after the preorder was extended to Sunday.

 

[Olexxy]

I suspect that the problem is simply poor planning on the part of the Pandora team. Much easier to blame an anonymous financial institution doing mysterious bad things that no one can reveal.

There's no mess on the german shop side, so your speculations about OP pb as a whole seem unfounded. And nice try in baking-up financial institutions, it's indeed a known fact (especially nowadays) they are all trusworthy, reliable and open about their business...

 

[noisome]

I suspect that the problem is simply poor planning on the part of the Pandora team. Much easier to blame an anonymous financial institution doing mysterious bad things that no one can reveal.

I wish people, at this moment in time would forget about money. When it becomes known, to the truthful point that this is a scam or not, pretend the money never existed. Just too many people care about the little bits of money that they gave away, knowing that they would never see it again anyway. Stop crying about crap and just wait. So what if it is poor planning, at least they planned for the best and got the worst.

Which business hasn't gotten the shaft like this before? Name one real business that has had everything go completely successful..without hiccups at all. Even Microsoft just got screw by the conditions, as well as GM, Ford, AIG, and the rest of the ever loving gosh darn world. PandoraCrew.org planned well enough not to be totally screwed unless everyone pulls out, but apparently GM and Ford didn't plan that well eh?

So much for your suspicions. I suspect you work for some large (GPH, Sony, Nintendo, Asus, name yours) company attempting to compete with Pandora and trying to start a coup so the better handheld gets lost to the wayside and a shitty product another company makes will have to suffice. That's what I think and you can't prove I'm wrong because you're just making up "facts" as you go along.

Meh, go cry elsewhere, whiny-pants.

Noisome

 

[j.pickens]

Okay, I now have the e-mail, but no refund.

I'm waiting for the credit card page anyway, since a direct transfer would probably be prohibitively expensive, what with me being in the US...

The cost for my wire transfer was $30 from a Philadelphia, PA area bank.
Got the email two days ago, the credit posted this afternoon, stopped by the bank on the way home and made the wire transfer arrangements.
I am only out the $30 wire transfer fee.

Really easy, no whining was involved, paid the same $290.92 they credited me back.

 

[zeropro]

Noisome, you are pretty funny. I dont know of 1 business , legitimate business that went through an ordeal of this nature with this many people involved. it would have already been roasted in the press as this one is about to be. I was born at night but not last night, and what we have been fed is pure BS. I have the resources to go after "mysterious bank" on my own but I doubt we will ever get a straight answer on who the "mysterious bank" is. I have an inkling that they went with some shady offshore merchant account rather than going through the proper procedures for a legitimate account, I may be wrong here but that seems to be the most plausible explanation IF the bank fiasco is to be believed. Either way Im annoyed and further more am leaning toward real action. I knwo craig is reading all of this along with whoever else is "in charge" and yet still no statements?

 

[Chairman_Now]

I wish people, at this moment in time would forget about money.
<SNIP>
Meh, go cry elsewhere, whiny-pants.

We'll see how charitable you'll feel if you end up shelling out $350 and end up with nothing to show for it. I think that possibility is a very real concern given how things have been handled up until now.

You may want to consider changing your nickname here. Noisome means "offensive, disgusting, foul-smelling". FYI