Action buttons: how will we do the next round of voting?

[Grench]

Are we working on six buttons?

Option/Back

Up/Down

Yes/No

Considering that the only top-side view of the board I've seen only has 4 buttons, mapping them to 6 could be a trick. Has anyone seen anything officially from ED that the board has changed from 4 to 6? Or is this all just wishful thinking on the part of the, 'It must have 6 or I won't buy it!' crowd?

 

[bzar]

^ http://pyra-handheld.org/specs.html

 

[Klumpen]

By now, I so do hope, that ED ignores those discussions and polls for the action buttons.

 

[_jr_]

He probably will. Though right now I hope he will choose greek characters just to spite those 'I don't know them and can't be bothered to learn something new' opponents.

 

[bzar]

Klumpen: your sig applies

 

[Tenka]

This thread is pointless right?  I can ask here.  Is the Pyra not going to have USB3?  I don't see it in the specs.  I'm worried because I would like to use a fast USB monitor.

 

[_wb_]

This thread is pointless right?  I can ask here.  Is the Pyra not going to have USB3?  I don't see it in the specs.  I'm worried because I would like to use a fast USB monitor.

It will most likely have micro-USB 3.0 OTG. The full-size USB port(s) will be USB 2.0.

Why would you use a USB monitor if there's also HDMI out?

 

[Tenka]

It will most likely have micro-USB 3.0 OTG. The full-size USB port(s) will be USB 2.0.

Why would you use a USB monitor if there's also HDMI out?

Oh, thank you.  I would be disappointed in tha, a micro plug will make it clunkier to use USB3 things on the go, and I really don't like micro-USB3 ports.  I would use a tiny USB monitor because it would be powered by USB, and if it were powered and connected to the Pyra by a single cable just beneath the first monitor, I could connect it above the top screen so as to have two screen for more larger DS emulation, or whatever else if I want to be crazy and leave it there.  Perhaps this tiny light monitor would have an HDMi port too though, don't know yet.

 

[God Ginrai]

He probably will. Though right now I hope he will choose greek characters just to spite those 'I don't know them and can't be bothered to learn something new' opponents.

And then he can make the default Gentoo to spite all those users who "don't know how and can't be bothered to learn" to compile their own code.

-God Ginrai

 

[_wb_]

OK, this thread is now really irrelevant, see the "first round" thread...

 

[WizardStan]

I would be disappointed in tha, a micro plug will make it clunkier to use USB3 things on the go, and I really don't like micro-USB3 ports

Don't have a choice. The OMAP5's OTG port is the USB3 port. Either ED goes with a USB3.0 micro (OTG) port, or there's no way to connect the Pandora as a slave.

 

[Granitehead]

My point is those subtleties are not comparable because of individual differences. IMO global comparability is more importantant than fine individual granularity.

Of course results need to be comparable or they are useless. But I think one can value more subtleties than just a list of precedence.
If you ask different people what they prefer, A or B. And you get those replies:

Y--Y--N--N--N
e--e--e--o--o
s--s--u--.--!
!--.--t------
-------------
6543210123456
-------------
A--B---------
A-----------B
B--A---------
---B--A------
---A----B----
----BA-------
average( A )=(+6) + (+6) + (+3) + (+0) + (+3) + (+1)=+19average( B )=(+3) + (-6) + (+6) + (+3) + (-2) + (+2)=+6

disliked( A )=0

disliked( B )=2

liked( A )=5

liked( B )=4

best( A )=3

best( B )=3

You think based on that data A and B are equivalent?

Even when you know that before voting, people read the following?

Yes! - when you are strongly in favour <including or> want your opinion to carry a lot of weight

Yes. - when you are in favour, xor when you are strongly in favour personally but don't think it must essentially be the right choice for everyone and would also be okay with another choice winning if that is more popular

Neutral - when you aren't sure whether a solution is good or bad, you think it's irrelevant to you, you don't care

No. - when you are against the proposition, xor when you are strongly against it personally but don't think it must essentially be the wrong choice for everyone and would also be okay with this choice winning if it is more popular

No! - when you are strongly against the proposition <including or> want your opinion to carry a lot of weight

Sure, the size of the difference between say 8, 9 and 12 is debatable. But I think there clearly is a difference. Which can be analysed and taken into consideration in the interpretation of the results.

 

[bzar]

Let's account for voting behaviour. Voters vote for five options with a 1-5 scale (1 worst, 5 best). Their actual preferences match exactly and by coincidence match the option numbers. I've picked some possible voting behaviors below. See how little their original opinion matters after it goes through voting behaviour? When averaged options 3, 4 and 5 mush together because of the near-neutral voters. Same with median. Mode reflects very much what the two extreme voters voted.

Now consider there being a random number of each voter type (and many other types). You couldn't  possibly get any kind of sense of the subtleties of the voters' actual preferences from that mess.

Now consider they used simple ranking. Because they're forced to put the options to SOME unambiguous order, they all pick the same order because of those subtle differences in their actual opinion. Both median and average represent the actual opinions nicely.

                         options
Voting behaviour |  1   2   3   4   5
-----------------+---------------------
Neutral          |  1   2   3   4   5
Aggressive       |  1   1   1   1   5
Nice             |  3   4   4   4   5
Reserved         |  2   3   3   3   4
Negative         |  1   1   1   1   3
-----------------+---------------------
Average          | 1.6 2.2 2.4 2.6 4.4
Median           |  1   2   3   3   5
Mode             |  1   1   1   1   5

The error in your model comes from the mistake that people know exactly how they feel and in what magnitude. They don't.

 

[_jr_]

He probably will. Though right now I hope he will choose greek characters just to spite those 'I don't know them and can't be bothered to learn something new' opponents.

And then he can make the default Gentoo to spite all those users who "don't know how and can't be bothered to learn" to compile their own code.

That would be great for me.


But I understand why that isn't a good business decision from ED's point of view, while the choice of action button labels will most probably have zero impact on sales and support.

 

[_wb_]

I think you are both right. People don't necessarily have a preference that corresponds to a total order, and it certainly does not necessarily correspond to a value assignment corresponding to a permutation to {1, 2, ..., n}. So T4b is right when he takes that into account and doesn't force people to map their preference to that. And B-ZaR is also right that if you want to aggregate multiple preferences, some kind of normalization is necessary.

 

[God Ginrai]

He probably will. Though right now I hope he will choose greek characters just to spite those 'I don't know them and can't be bothered to learn something new' opponents.

And then he can make the default Gentoo to spite all those users who "don't know how and can't be bothered to learn" to compile their own code.

That would be great for me.

But I understand why that isn't a good business decision from ED's point of view, while the choice of action button labels will most probably have zero impact on sales and support.

It's all about barrier of entry. If someone who has no experience with the device is just tossed more baggage to deal with, they are going to either not get the device, or return it if they had already purchased it. There were already people who gave up on the Pandora just because they had a hard time with the learning curve that it already presented. The Pyra will have the exact same learning curve. It may even have some new things that make it more complicated. Yet somehow increasing the burden by making them have to learn how to even discuss the buttons on the device will not have an impact on sales?

-God Ginrai

 

[Granitehead]

The Pyra will be easier because of the work already done and because it won't be using as crappy an os and there will probably be a pnd manager from the start, etc.

Edit: Other topic will be replied to later.

 

[God Ginrai]

The Pyra will be easier because of the work already done and because it won't be using as crappy an os and there will probably be a pnd manager from the start, etc.

That's not actually true. Having half the software in the repo and the other half in things like PNDs is actually likely to be even more complicated for a user. Especially for any Windows users who are not used to using repositories.

-God Ginrai