Action buttons: how will we do the next round of voting?

[Kiga]

My point is those subtleties are not comparable because of individual differences.

That's what I was writing.

Also it isn't a survey but a vote, so people vote for their interest, so it's even more imprecise.

 

[God Ginrai]

T4b, you waited two days to declare a result from the first poll? Is 72 votes really enough to determine the voice of the community? I'm quite sure there are many people that don't read the forum every day.

 Yes, I think we should give the first poll some more time. The name poll has 187 voters, the SoC poll has 314 voters, the case color poll has 127 voters, I think we should at least wait until there are more than 100 voters.

Also I'm not sure if this way of voting is very good -- it's interesting to see how polarized the opinions are, but it also means that the preference of people with a polarized opinion will have more weight: compare someone who thinks one proposal is perfect and all others are abysmal, versus someone who think all of the proposals have their merits and disadvantages (not perfect, not crap) but still prefers one of them over the others, so e.g. he votes "pretty good" for that one and "average" for the rest). If we're going to vote like this, the polarized vote will have a bigger overall impact than the "moderate" vote. That in turn leads to people voting more polarized than their true opinion.

I agree. The second poll shouldn't come around until next week, like you suggested in the original poll. I will wait for your poll.

Can we get a mod to lock this? Honestly, T4b shouldn't be trying to take over the poll for this, since _wb_ made it his responsibility. This topic being open would only serve to confuse the users who are voting.

-God Ginrai

 

[Granitehead]

We can lock it, but only after the discussion between me and B-Zar is finished (or moved somewhere else). I think I still want to disagree, but need to think about it more.

 

[Saber]

Well thought out poll T4b.

I vote(again in this thread) it runs synchronously to the older one for awhile, while there's interest.

Turnout for this seems very good for the most popular choices.

 

[God Ginrai]

We can lock it, but only after the discussion between me and B-Zar is finished (or moved somewhere else). I think I still want to disagree, but need to think about it more.

Then it needs to be moved. A "round 2" that isn't official will just make people stop voting in the original poll.

-God Ginrai

 

[Neelix]

If you want to keep the thread open for discussion couldn't the poll be deleted or the discussion moved to another thread?

- Neelix

 

[Saber]

We can lock it, but only after the discussion between me and B-Zar is finished (or moved somewhere else). I think I still want to disagree, but need to think about it more.

Then it needs to be moved. A "round 2" that isn't official will just make people stop voting in the original poll.

-God Ginrai

Respectfully to all GG, both polls are unofficial. They are done by regular non-team community members, aka not ED, who went on a whim and wanted to and had the itch to do them. I doubt people will stop voting and, even if they did, the other one could go for another week or more and the results will be that the most popular ones here would mirror the results showing the most popular ones in the other thread. No self-repecting gaming handheld PC should have dice, chess pieces, or card suit symbols on it anyways. Klingon, maybe, but that's for another poll.

What I like about this particular poll though is the abysmal votes which offer a gauge for how much a potential customer despises another layout. This is a valuable insight, plus having both polls linked on the first post might keep the other one from fading and to be fair to the originator.  Having both of them play out, while people care about the imagined topic enough to even want to vote about it, only helps reach a final decision on what the community or part of it wants. What's important is the answer of which button labels to use not which poll becomes untrendy. 

 

[God Ginrai]

Respectfully to all GG, both polls are unofficial. They are done by regular non-team community members, aka not ED, who went on a whim and wanted to and had the itch to do them.

_wb_ is staff. That's official enough. The point is to show EvilDragon what everyone wants. If we all make our own polls about the same thing, we split the votes and confuse others, thus making all the data we're gathering absolutely useless for EvilDragon. As long as this poll exists, any data EvilDragon could have gleaned from polls is no better than just reading the Button topics and making his own assumptions based on the comments.

I doubt people will stop voting and

If someone believes that the voting has progressed to the next point and that their vote wouldn't matter in the original poll, they would not vote in the original poll. I don't see how you don't understand this concept.

even if they did, the other one could go for another week or more and the results will be that the most popular ones here would mirror the results showing the most popular ones in the other thread.

That is not true. The longer the vote is up, the more kinds of people get to see the poll. The poll right mainly has the opinions of those of us who have been participating in discussion from the beginning. By giving it more time to be seen, you allow time for people with different opinions, who may not visit the forum daily like us, to weigh in.

No self-repecting gaming handheld PC should have dice, chess pieces, or card suit symbols on it anyways. Klingon, maybe, but that's for another poll.

 That's your own opinion. I could say the same thing about Greek characters. The point is, we shouldn't cut either of them out of the poll just because we feel that way. A loaded poll is not fair.

What I like about this particular poll though is the abysmal votes which offer a gauge for how much a potential customer despises another layout. This is a valuable insight, plus having both polls linked on the first post might keep the other one from fading and to be fair to the originator.  Having both of them play out, while people care about the imagined topic enough to even want to vote about it, only helps reach a final decision on what the community or part of it wants. What's important is the answer of which button labels to use not which poll becomes untrendy.

I'm not complaining about the style of this poll. However, this poll will ruin the results from the first poll, and if T4b wanted something like this, he should have discussed with _wb_ about making the next poll do something similar.

-God Ginrai

 

[_wb_]

Respectfully to all GG, both polls are unofficial. They are done by regular non-team community members, aka not ED, who went on a whim and wanted to and had the itch to do them.

_wb_ is staff. That's official enough.

Sorry, but me being "staff" just means that I'm a mod on this forum. It does not make my polls or statements any more "official" than those of any other community member. I am not part of the "official Pyra team", I'm just a community member like all of us.

Anyway, I don't think the difference between an "official" poll and an "unofficial" poll should be overestimated. Polls initiated by ED himself tend to attract more voters because it's more obvious that ED will somehow use the results of the poll in his design decisions. But other than that, all polls have the same status: they are a non-binding advice to the Pyra team that to some extent reflects the wishes and opinions of the community insofar the poll voters are representative for the community as a whole.

 

[God Ginrai]

Anyway, I don't think the difference between an "official" poll and an "unofficial" poll should be overestimated. Polls initiated by ED himself tend to attract more voters because it's more obvious that ED will somehow use the results of the poll in his design decisions. But other than that, all polls have the same status: they are a non-binding advice to the Pyra team that to some extent reflects the wishes and opinions of the community insofar the poll voters are representative for the community as a whole.

Yes, but the problem is that this conflicts with your poll. It falsely leads others on to believe that this is the next step and therefore people aren't voting in your poll. No one has voted in the original poll at all today, and I'm willing to bet it is due to the existance of this poll that claims it is "round two".

Honestly, if this poll is allowed to stay open, then I will not support any decision made based on these polls, because this is trashing the data.

-God Ginrai

 

[Ziz]

Honestly, if this poll is allowed to stay open, then I will not support any decision made based on these polls, because this is trashing the data.

What exact happens, if you don't support the decision?

 

[_wb_]

OK then. I changed the topic title and the poll title. T4b: I hope this is OK for you?

 

[Saber]

God Ginrai, with all due respect you need to relax a bit. Multiquoting to death every post in response to yours litters the forum and ups the stress levels of everyone who is brave to read it. I'm just saying I, and others I'm sure, won't hear you any louder if you do it seemingly every time you have a reflexive reaction to something said you have your own opinion on and disagree with. You seem like a good guy and quite intelligent otherwise.

Remember, what each of us says here is not always how it is, but how we see it ourselves. Let's work together.

 

[God Ginrai]

What exact happens, if you don't support the decision?

 Nothing, most likely. However, that doesn't change the fact that the decision was influenced by unfair practices. Which is something that I abhor.

God Ginrai, with all due respect you need to relax a bit. Multiquoting to death every post in response to yours litters the forum and ups the stress levels of everyone who is brave to read it. I'm just saying I, and others I'm sure, won't hear you any louder if you do it seemingly every time you have a reflexive reaction to something said you have your own opinion on and disagree with. You seem like a good guy and quite intelligent otherwise.

Remember, what each of us says here is not always how it is, but how we see it ourselves. Let's work together.

It is common to split posts to address points on their own. It is not littering the forum by any means. It improves readability so that people can understand the arguments that someone is making and how they relate to the chain of discussion.

-God Ginrai

 

[N3Cr0]

Hate it or love it, but the Greek letters would be a killer feature in both matters.

Maybe this is just an example, but it is what this thread proves. So I think this over-polarized voting system has its advantages.

 

[Saber]

What exact happens, if you don't support the decision?

 
Nothing, most likely. However, that doesn't change the fact that the decision was influenced by unfair practices. Which is something that I abhor.

God Ginrai, with all due respect you need to relax a bit. Multiquoting to death every post in response to yours litters the forum and ups the stress levels of everyone who is brave to read it. I'm just saying I, and others I'm sure, won't hear you any louder if you do it seemingly every time you have a reflexive reaction to something said you have your own opinion on and disagree with. You seem like a good guy and quite intelligent otherwise.


Remember, what each of us says here is not always how it is, but how we see it ourselves. Let's work together.

It is common to split posts to address points on their own. It is not littering the forum by any means. It improves readability so that people can understand the arguments that someone is making and how they relate to the chain of discussion.

-God Ginrai

That is true, usually, when done in a healthy, nonconfrontational way but not when it can be construed as bickering which can quickly turn to an online quarrel of fencing with words. Keep in mind too, the person who's post you are multiquoting might not want hers/his post to be dissected to such a level, and they might not care in the slightest if you feel so passionate enough to want to convince them, in such a manner, you are correct and they are not(and vice-versa).

 

[szr]

Would it make sense to suggest placing the corresponding keyboard mapping labels besides the action buttons (providing that that they aren't chosen as the primary label that is), to make it more clear which action button maps to what keyboard function? That is, if there is spacing on the case around the buttons fit said labels (even if it's very small text and probably in abbreviated forms, like Ins, Del, PgUp PgDn, Home, End or so? I believe this might be a good solution for those wanting a meaningful symbol like on many game controllers as well making it clear what they are for normal keyboard use. Would there be any reason that this wouldn't be a good idea?

 

[Saber]

Would it make sense to suggest placing the corresponding keyboard mapping labels besides the action buttons (providing that that they aren't chosen as the primary label that is), to make it more clear which action button maps to what keyboard function? That is, if there is spacing on the case around the buttons fit said labels (even if it's very small text and probably in abbreviated forms, like Ins, Del, PgUp PgDn, Home, End or so? I believe this might be a good solution for those wanting a meaningful symbol like on many game controllers as well making it clear what they are for normal keyboard use. Would there be any reason that this wouldn't be a good idea?

It depends on how easy it is to etch this cheat sheet onto the case and how large the print/symbols would have to be.

It is a good idea though.

 

[Kiga]

Yes, but the problem is that this conflicts with your poll. It falsely leads others on to believe that this is the next step and therefore people aren't voting in your poll. No one has voted in the original poll at all today, and I'm willing to bet it is due to the existance of this poll that claims it is "round two".

I agree. Also the new title suggests that the other poll is finished.

 

[ShleeDragon]

Are we working on six buttons?

Option/Back

Up/Down

Yes/No