A Pandora 2 Concept


Might be a good idea to make a poll like this:


What do you want Pandora 2 to be:


a. I don't need a Pandora 2, just improve quality, software and production (to lower price)


b. Incremental changes - Like CPU, GPU, Keyboard. Same form factor


c. Different form factor
 
WizardStan said:
Who said that? They lied to you. Multitouch resistive screens with two input points have been available for a couple of years now, with recent upgrades allowing up to 10 unique points at once. I'm fairly convinced that the misinformation that capacitive equals multitouch and resistive equals single touch is the only reason multitouch resistive screens haven't been used in phones yet. It's a self propogating lie.
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While I have heard this, I have not seen a resistive touchscreen for sale that has a controller that lets you read something like this. It's all the same - two analog outputs that let you read a single X and Y position. You need to have the right screen for this to work, it's not enough that the technology exists somewhere.


There's a reason why 3DS, for instance, does not have multitouch.
 
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^ But didn't homebrewers do multi-touch on the DS at one point, as a proof-of-concept?
 
I still think this is the best concept so far

realjdpgs4.png
 
I don't count that as a handheld. This thread was being reasonably serious until now! :angry: :p
 
.....the 3ds does have multitouch, or at least 2 touch from what i just checked
 
I don't know what any of you guys are talking about. What'd you check for multitouch on 3DS DaMummy? According to Nintendo it's the same technology as in DS. I know on DS you could detect something different when two points are touched but it's not enough to accurately position both points.
 
I'm not aware of multi-touch on DS or 3DS. It does definitely require some modified hardware which I wasn't aware of either of those having.


What I am aware of is a bunch of demos from tech galleries, and releases from more major players like Fujitsu and Toshiba talking about upcoming products with resistive multi-touch... from two years ago. You can see resistive multi-touch functioning surprisingly well here. A 5 second google returns a couple of small time companies, touch-intl.com and panjittouchscreens.com, which are producing 2 point multi-touch resistive panels but no details on cost or technology behind them. I can't imagine they are prohibitively more expensive than existing single point panels, especially compared to capacitive which are traditionally more costly than resistive.


All of which makes me question "why aren't there any commercially available products with multi-touch resistive panels yet?" and the only answer I have come up with (albeit a biased one, I'm sure) is marketing: Apple has successfully convinced the general public that capacitive is better than resistive, period, and any company that uses a resistive screen is inferior regardless of whether that is true or not. It could be true for some reasons but it is definitely false for others.
 
WizardStan said:
I'm not aware of multi-touch on DS or 3DS. It does definitely require some modified hardware which I wasn't aware of either of those having.


What I am aware of is a bunch of demos from tech galleries, and releases from more major players like Fujitsu and Toshiba talking about upcoming products with resistive multi-touch... from two years ago. You can see resistive multi-touch functioning surprisingly well here. A 5 second google returns a couple of small time companies, touch-intl.com and panjittouchscreens.com, which are producing 2 point multi-touch resistive panels but no details on cost or technology behind them. I can't imagine they are prohibitively more expensive than existing single point panels, especially compared to capacitive which are traditionally more costly than resistive.


All of which makes me question "why aren't there any commercially available products with multi-touch resistive panels yet?" and the only answer I have come up with (albeit a biased one, I'm sure) is marketing: Apple has successfully convinced the general public that capacitive is better than resistive, period, and any company that uses a resistive screen is inferior regardless of whether that is true or not. It could be true for some reasons but it is definitely false for others.
Click to expand...

I don't think the average person knows enough about capacitive vs resistive touchscreen technology to really care. Especially not for cheap Chinese phones. And if they did, the manufacturer could just skew the truth a little as to what they're using - a resistive touchscreen does have capacitive elements too. I wouldn't underestimate the potential for cost.. this could require a much more expensive controller.


Look at the question from the other side: if they're just as cheap as single-touch resistive solutions why are single-touch resistive solutions still being used in any products at all?

Prometheus said:
This is the DS proof-of-concept thing I was remembering (

https://www.youtube.com/embed/D6j8yT-Bhsc?feature=oembed
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Right.. the important distinction is that this can detect if multiple presses are made but not where. DS has some additional "force" analog outputs from the screen (Z1 and Z2) which I never really fully understood, but that by itself is definitely not enough to accurately detect where multiple presses are.
 
Prometheus said:
This is the DS proof-of-concept thing I was remembering (

https://www.youtube.com/embed/D6j8yT-Bhsc?feature=oembed
Click to expand...
Not quite the same thing. By touching in two places it is effectively like touching it exactly between those two points with a particularly fat finger. All this does is detect how fat that "finger" is, and if it's more than a given threshold it assumes two touches instead of one. It doesn't provide a lot more information beyond that. With some math you can guess at some additional data, but it's just an estimate, maybe good for simple pinch/stretch gestures but I can't imagine much else.


That's why true multitouch requires different hardware, to detect not only that two things have touched it, but precisely where those points of contact are.


edit: double :ph34r:
 
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Exophase said:
Look at the question from the other side: if they're just as cheap as single-touch resistive solutions why are single-touch resistive solutions still being used in any products at all?
Click to expand...
I have little doubt it is more expensive, but I'm having difficulty getting any figures because so few companies actually produce such controllers. If it's a 50% increase, a $20 panel suddenly becomes a $30 panel and that extra $10 can rapidly eat into profits; sell 100'000 units and that's $1million of profit for what most would likely consider a gimmick. That's why I believe it hasn't replaced single touch resistive. The 50% puts it in line with capactive though, so a multi-touch controller would have to cost more than 50% more before I can see it being cost ineffective against capacitive. But maybe it is more than 50%, I can't tell because no one is advertising prices that I can find. I'd have to pretend to be a company interested in the technology and get a quote. Quite bothersome.

Exophase said:
I don't think the average person knows enough about capacitive vs resistive touchscreen technology to really care.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly what fuels my conspiracy theory: they don't know, they don't care, they just believe what they've been told by Apple, which is that capacitive = multitouch = superior to resistive. As I told vcoleiro, before he mentioned consistency not a single person had ever used anything other than multitouch as a reason to use capacitive touch screens, in the year or so that I've been arguing fully in favour of resistive.
 
I remember having to tweak the contrast on the original GB every 20 seconds because it didn't have a backlight. Well if OLED displays get cheaper they don't need a backlight.
 
zev said:
Why do screens absolutely *have* to have backlight? Makes no sense in broad daylight (think about it).


I mean, devices should be made to be viewable in moderate shade to day light, without a backlight.


Remember the days when some devices could have the backlight completely turned off, and you could still see the screen?


I miss the days when I could play Gameboy Colour in any light, and the only use/requirement for LED light was when it was dark.


Side note: Remember the GBA before the backlight? Peeved a lot of people off :p


Just in thought I guess... and perhaps thought for improving Pandora in general, if tech exists.
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I would absolutely never again buy something that isn't backlit. Just saying. Those were dark times (ugh, no p..u... ah what the hell, pun intended)


The thing with LCDs is that they either sort of work with external lighting or they allow internal lighting. Not both. So if you have a lit LCD and you turn the backlighting off completely it'll be unviewable in like, anything. Seriously, try it some time.
 
ANDROID said:
I can't wait till the new e-ink technology gets into mobile phones / game handhelds, susposed to give color and give up to 30fps and use very little power
Click to expand...

I hate to sound overly picky but I really want 60Hz on my emulator devices. Dunno if this is a popular opinion or not but I'd kind of think it is, at least among some groups.
 
i agree... i'm a pureist as well, but I think it is definately a step in the right direction, if it ever hits that 60hz/fps mark that's where my vote will be
 
Guys guys guys (and gal)... all this talk about multitouch resistive screens and my massive hardon has now died. So if we could please get back to 2 GHz multicore + 1 GB of RAM + multisensor awesomeness, yeah, that would be great.


Thanks. :D
 
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