A Pandora 2 Concept

[pmprog]

Many Useres would have to buy Micro SDs first, I only have normal SDs for example.

I'm sure if the operating system had to come on SD, you'd get the SD card with the Pandora (or maybe optional, who knows). Might be able to buy "P2 + Ang" or "P2 + Android" as purchasing options, and a "P2 NoOS" for those wanting to D/L

so I think most people would want to stick with external standard SD slots but wouldnt mind an internal micro SD.

Concensus.

 

[Argtrak]

Another point for full size SD is that the card slot itself is more robust. Actually, if I recall correctly, this is the main reason the Raspberry Pi went with full size instead of micro. It's much easier to break a micro sd slot than a full size one. Oh, and don't forget how easy it is to loose a microSD card. Those things are TINY!!! (ok, micro actually)


I do agree with the internal micro SD card slot to replace the NAND though. The NAND will eventually die and while it apparently doesn't brick your pandora, with class 10, and higher eventually, the internal micro SD would not slow us down much, and be easily replaceable enough. You could even put the slot under the battery compartment for easy replacement without dis-assembly. B)

 

[milkshake]

You could even put the slot under the battery compartment for easy replacement without dis-assembly. B)

I like this idea

 

[hmc]

I do like the idea of an internal sd card (non micro) as long as there is no speed difference between using that and using nand.

FWIW:


I haven't measured, but I always boot from SD card and do all work with the SD card OS. Also swap is placed on SD. And I am fully satisfied with the performance.


Even if SD is slightly slower than NAND, the advantage of swappanbility in case of damage or only if I want to have several systems for several purposes to swap, makes the speed difference irrelevant to me...


Daniel

 

[Caine]

The only reason to have an internal SD slot that I can think of is such that you don't accidentally pop-out your OS. I would prefer the internal SD slot to be accessible fairly easy.


Behind the battery compartment is quite acceptable to me as you need to turn off your unit between OS switches anyway but a side-slot with a small cover is a good option as well. Due to space constraints it would probably have to be a micro-SD slot as I doubt that three full-sized SD slots would fit inside the unit.


However, I would hate to see the regular full-sized SD slots disappear because fast and large (in terms of storage) cards have better availability in full-size and micro-SD is just too damn small (in the physical sense).

 

[DaMummy]

remember that the card replacing the nand(which can imo be a micro) can easily be a sdxc format with higher r/w speeds than sdhc. Definitely dont change the pandora's hard drives to mirco though.


and another thing that needs to be changed on the case, is that the corners by , and Fn keyboard buttons need to be rounded out the way the corners are on the screen half of the pandora as me, and im sure others, always get pandora corner imprints on my palms when playing for 20min+

 

[MrChops]

^ puts my hand to sleep sometimes

 

[Grench]

On SD slots:


Skip micro-sd. It is annoying to keep track of those cards and they are VERY slow. Please don't forget that speed counts on the card slots. This isn't just a game machine.


Stick with SDXC compatibility and make sure the interface can handle something at least twice as fast as the fastest SDXC card on the market today.


The speed limitation on current SDHC cards is not the cards but the on board interface topping out at around 17MB/sec.


If you want to really blow minds with device capabilities - put in TWO internal SDXC slots (with a bus that can handle 50+MB/sec per slot) and allow the OS installer to stripe them. Then you can skip the NAND completely. Yes, this means that the Pandora would have a total of four SDHC/SDXC slots in it. Two behind the battery and two out where we can get to them?


Really, if you put two internal (for OS & swap & storage) so they could be striped - then we'd only need ONE external/accessible SDXC slot. That internal array is going to be so fast that the externally accessible one becomes simply a way to move data on & off of the device rather than primary storage.


Picture two of the Lexar 128GB SDXC cards mounted internally in a striped array... A 256GB SDA that can read/write at 40MB/sec. THAT would make your PNDs pop.


The drawback: Removing the NAND would require users to supply their own (SD,SDHC,SDXC) card(s) to use as the primary OS drive - or that the device ship with a low capacity cheap card with the OS and OS installers on it to get them started.


On OS:


Android without access to the Android market is a worthless exercise. Only pursue this IF you can get the device certified to access the marketplace. It seems they are no longer requiring the device to have a phone and 'always on' internet connection - but what are the other current requirements and would there have to be compromises to the device to meet those requirements? Even then, the ability to dual boot to a desktop type OS would be critical.


Angstrom is adequate, but somewhat annoying in it's obscurity. No name recognition - not considered to be a 'top tier' distribution. There is no compatible repository to pull from. It alienates casual Linux users. It's only advantage is the customizations that have been done to tune it to the physical characteristics of the Pandora (tiny NAND, tiny RAM, screen resolution, nubs, etc...) I use it, it's functional, but if there were a real mainstream distribution alternative I'd bolt to it.


Ubuntu. Linux purists don't like it because it's popular. The unity interface is simply annoying from a PC standpoint - but it would work well on a small form factor device. Supposedly they have ARM releases out - but I can't name a single ARM device using it. The existing Pandora simply doesn't have enough systems resources to do it right. If we're talking about a Pandora II though, this MIGHT be the right replacement for Angstrom. Having the entire Debian repository available and an OS that -people- recognize that's name is spelled with letters that exist on everyone's keyboard? That would work nicely.


On Screen Type:


A Pandora II needs technology that sets it a cut and a half above and sideways to everything else on the market - with insane battery life. To me this keeps coming back to the idea of putting in a high resolution daylight readable 5" Pixel Qi screen.


On Other System Components:


Make sure that there is driver support or at minimum sharable documentation for the components being sourced. It has always irked me that we have a DSP we can't use.


Put two audio jacks (one on the side) on the thing so I can listen to my MP3 collection with the Pandora in my pocket please?

 

[milkshake]

the DSP is accessible already, the driver has been released but no apps use it yet and it isnt in the main OS you would have to add it seperatley

 

[Grench]

the DSP is accessible already, the driver has been released but no apps use it yet and it isnt in the main OS you would have to add it seperatley

So from an end user perspective - it simply isn't there.


I -am- glad though that it's moved forward to having a driver. Is it the RAM & NAND space issue that's holding it back from inclusion in the OS? It kind of needs to live there before applications start using it, doesn't it?

 

[Exophase]

So from an end user perspective - it simply isn't there.

I'd argue from an end user perspective it shouldn't even really be a question of whether DSP support is there or not. It all boils down to the quality of the software. Writing for the DSP is an optimization. It could be useful for a lot of software, with a lot of work, but so could a lot of other optimizations.. for most stuff on Pandora there are probably easier things you can do first.


The real killer app that people notice missing is video playback. That's about way more than just coding the DSP, that also involves a bunch of fixed function video blocks on the SoC

 

[milkshake]

Is it the RAM & NAND space issue that's holding it back from inclusion in the OS? It kind of needs to live there before applications start using it, doesn't it?

I belive this could be it, it requires so much RAM to be enabled, I cant remember the exact figure but the rest of the OS would not be able to access this RAM it would be for the DSP only.

 

[Binky]

Storage:

Please don't move to microSD

you can get microSD to SD converters but not vise-versa!


what about internal SDXC 4.0 for OS, home directory, and frequently used applications, and an external one for other stuff.


Twin SDXC is awesome (!).

Screen

A 5" pixelQI would be very good


Fill out that screen space!

Other

use hardware with complete Linux drivers


An android port would be nice, but custom stuff would be better

expandora? (there does seem to be support for some kind of expansion system)

seriously, could the P2 have an expansion system?

 

[gadgetoid]

If it were up to me, I'd bung a redundant 512mb+ of memory into the Pandora 2 with no other use than to run a Ramdisk of the core OS, which is copied to memory on boot. I'd bump the NAND to match and, hopefully, eliminate the need for a boot SD card. Writes to NAND should be rare, if non-existent, and a trigger could ensure that they're mirrored from the Ramdisk back to the source.


I really don't know what I'm talking about, to be honest, but it sounds cool!

 

[milkshake]

your talking amiga style well the ramdisk part

 

[-Tj-]

I'm still waiting for mine, but there are some things the current Pandora has that I bought it for:


- Full-sized SD card slots


- Linux desktop


Some things I've read in this thread and liked:


- Larger screen to fill the lid


- Internal MicroSD slot, accesible from the battery compartment


- More RAM


Things I suggested that I didn't like:


- Soft grip coating (every product I've had with this kind of surface went sticky or gummy)


- Switch to MicroSD card slots (till this is "standard" in almost every device, I'd prefer the option to use full sized cards)


Things I'd love to see done:


- Keep speakers in the cover, but maybe put them behind a larger screen, with holes aside the screen to channel sound, and holes in the lid to allow them to sound to escape when the lid is shut


- Remove the tabs from the screen cover and use screws only


- Plastic that doesn't feel and sound so cheap

 

[Binky]

Here's what I see in a Pandora2 (combined with a 5" screen and better construction, better CPU etc)


[rant]


(yes, sorry, I'm going on about expandora again, this is because no-one seems to comment on it at all. I can't see any problems with it but I havn't heard much enthusiasm either. What do you think?!) [/rant]


If someone from the team could comment, that would be especially appreciated. If its a useless idea, just say so.

 

[Caine]

yes I'm going on about expandora again, this is because no-one seems to comment on it at all. I can't see any problems with it but I havn't heard much enthusiasm either. What do you think?!

I think that since it is all USB based anyway, that Pandora specific extensions would be more expensive than their regular desktop equivalent while being the same hassle in terms of ease of transport.

 

[Binky]

yes I'm going on about expandora again, this is because no-one seems to comment on it at all. I can't see any problems with it but I havn't heard much enthusiasm either. What do you think?!

I think that since it is all USB based anyway, that Pandora specific extensions would be more expensive than their regular desktop equivalent while being the same hassle in terms of ease of transport.

While expandora modules would be more expensive than mass-produced equivalents, Those really don't cut it as expansion modules. Drivers are problematic and they don't fit in your pocket


Some (e.g. original controller adapters, Broadcast radio receivers) would add useful functionality to a Pandora unavailable comercially. retrodes are big (especially if you have already ripped games), Linux compatible radio receivers are non-existent.

 

[Caine]

While expandora modules would be more expensive than mass-produced equivalents, Those really don't cut it as expansion modules. Drivers are problematic and they don't fit in your pocket


Some (e.g. original controller adapters, Broadcast radio receivers) would add useful functionality to a Pandora unavailable comercially. retrodes are big (especially if you have already ripped games), Linux compatible radio receivers are non-existent.

Sure, I understand, but if I look at the features you propose:

• media player buttons + extra headset jack
  One headset is enough for me, it would make more sense to support those remote controls integrated into headsets.
  
• HSDPA module, GPS
  Easier to connect these over bluetooth instead
  
• adapters for game controllers
  this is not a mobile scenario, I see no real benefit over a regular USB hub + adapter
  
• Broadcast radio receiver
  Personally, I have zero use for this
  

The one extension which does make sense to me would be a single compact T-piece which plugs into the back and provides:


L2+R2, Accelerometers (No need for a gyro, you're not going to swing around a device which you need to look at), optionally a 1 or 2 ports USB-hub.


If somebody would make such a thing, it would already work with the current design without needing any further hardware modifications. Furthermore, the current design can not fit both a USB1.0/1.1 and USB 2.0 controller for the full-sized USB port, I doubt you can suddenly fit three USB controllers.


Another argument against the sideways USB-ports is that they widen the unit.


They would make it quite a bit harder (i.e. uncomfortable) to reach the middle buttons.


Carrying around multiple of these extension pieces would prevent me from putting all the extras into the pockets of my jackets,


which means that on many occasions I would not take them with me anyway.


So to conclude, I don't really care enough about most of those extensions to become enthusiastic about your proposal, not does the current design prevent creation of such additions. Whatever is preventing them from being made now will not disappear by adding two extra ports on the side.