A Linux Umpc That Plays Games? Count Me In...

[jdh2550]

Hi,

Is the Pandora for real? How much confidence do folks have about an April 2008 delivery date?

I will buy one in a heartbeat - I am a professional software engineer and I want it because it's the best designed UMPC I've seen. I have a Nokia N770 and an N800 - but I'd much rather this device. The fact that it plays games is actually a cool secondary feature for me. I'm most interested in the UMPC aspects - it looks like I can place this on a table and type (albeit slowly). Awesome. Or I can thumbtype while holding it. Also awesome. Hunting and pecking on a virtual keyboard gets old when you want to use vi to edit your server config files...

On the off chance that this is more than a pipe dream and that the developers are listening. The one thing I'd change - make the display "flippable" so you can make it into a tablet. Also put another set of two 4 way pads next to the display (underneath the speakers). That way I can use it as a good e-book reader - oh yeah, and your prime market can play games this way too.

Whatever you do - don't loose the keyboard and the USB host. Those are the two key attractions for us old farts who just want a linux based UMPC.

GOOD LUCK! I signed up for the mailing list over at: http://openpandora.org/ I'm hoping this is for real - but I'm not holding my breath...

 

[argor]

i thing it is for real as for delivery date i thing at lest that the dev run will be out at that time
as for you Design changes i thing it to late for any change but a minor 1 as CraigIX did say the plastic molds will be made at end of jan

 

[Tobriand]

I think most of us here have been convinced it is real, although the April 2008 approx date is mostly a guess; iirc on the original chipset it should actually have been out by Christmas, but Ti got involved and so the board needed redesigning, with a suggested date of "sometime in the Spring 2008". Once it hits May it's summer, though, so April is a reasonable guess. I imagine March may be possible, but like most, I consider it unlikely.

If you read MWeston's posts, there's a lot of technical information there that would make no sense if it hadn't been designed, let alone that Squidge has done some tests on a dev board with FinalBurn. I think the only thing that could kill it now is one of the chip suppliers refusing to give them chips, or a sudden lack of money (which considering Craigix is a rather good businessman, I doubt will happen).

Agreed re: flippable top, but apparently that's patented. Sigh. One way round might be to add a second screen on the outside, but there's no way that would make it into the current design. I could see it being set up like that for a Mark-2 though, once screens have become even cheaper and thinner. But not now...

 

[Chip]

Is the Pandora for real? How much confidence do folks have about an April 2008 delivery date?

Hi JDH,

The project is very real. At least one pre-pre-production dev kit has been delivered to one of the top GP2X developers (Squidge) for initial testing, and from what he has been able to tell us (some hardware specifics are still shrouded in TI NDA secrecy) it looks very good. As for an April ship date, nobody knows. Even the hardware developers do not know for sure if it will be ready by spring, but spring is the goal. Craigix has said a few times that he won't ship the Pandora until it is 100% ready, so it may end up delayed to work out bugs. Personally, I'd rather wait for a quality device than get a dud early, and you'll probably agree.

You are not the first to suggest a 360 degree flipable screen, but it sems that due to dificulties with making it sturdy and avoiding patent issues, it does not look likely. The idea behind the project was to make the whole design/production/marketing process "open" to the community, at least as much as possible. The dev team does listen to suggestions, and already several changes have been made based on forum feedback. All technically feasible suggestions and ideas get considered.

In any case, Pandora is not vaporware. The project is far enough along that it would take a significant catastrophe to prevent its eventual release.

 

[jdh2550]

If you read MWeston's posts, there's a lot of technical information there that would make no sense if it hadn't been designed, let alone that Squidge has done some tests on a dev board with FinalBurn. I think the only thing that could kill it now is one of the chip suppliers refusing to give them chips, or a sudden lack of money

This is good news - thanks. I'll search for those posts. I'm afraid all I'd managed to find on this forum is "wouldn't it be great if it played such and such a game..." (lot's of enthusiasm but not much hard news).

(which considering Craigix is a rather good businessman, I doubt will happen).

I don't doubt you - but could you point me to something that backs that up?
However, the one thing that I think detracts from the apparent "real feel" that I get from your post is the complete lack of a website. They'd do better with no website at all, or at least a "we don't want to pre-publicize because of ....". This detracts from the "good businessman" aspect (IMHO - but of course if CraigIX pulls this off then I will gladly eat my hat). I'm not looking to disparage this effort, rather, I am looking for more information for two reasons (1) I want a Pandora & (2) if it's for real then I want the folks who did Pandora to quote me on a related project (mostly re-packaging the Pandora in a different form-factor).

Agreed re: flippable top, but apparently that's patented. Sigh. One way round might be to add a second screen on the outside, but there's no way that would make it into the current design. I could see it being set up like that for a Mark-2 though, once screens have become even cheaper and thinner. But not now...

Ack, the dreaded four letter word "patent". Ho hum. However, have you seen the OLPC? That has the flippable design (as well as numerous Toshiba laptops) - I wonder if for Mark 2 they could talk to OLPC - those folks should in theory be more open to the idea of sharing...

 

[Clad]

Nice, but they shouldn't spread the idea that the Pandora will cost £100. The target price is more like £200.

 

[Karel Jansens]

I don't doubt you - but could you point me to something that backs that up?
However, the one thing that I think detracts from the apparent "real feel" that I get from your post is the complete lack of a website. They'd do better with no website at all, or at least a "we don't want to pre-publicize because of ....". This detracts from the "good businessman" aspect (IMHO - but of course if CraigIX pulls this off then I will gladly eat my hat). I'm not looking to disparage this effort, rather, I am looking for more information for two reasons (1) I want a Pandora & (2) if it's for real then I want the folks who did Pandora to quote me on a related project (mostly re-packaging the Pandora in a different form-factor).

On the subject of abundant websites prior to a product launch, let me draw your attention to

http://www.medisoncelebrity.com/product.html

to

http://medison.pbwiki.com/

and to

http://www.medisonscam.info/

(the last one is a very long read).

That should give you a healthy suspicion against flashy web sites.

 

[jdh2550]

On the subject of abundant websites prior to a product launch, let me draw your attention to
...
That should give you a healthy suspicion against flashy web sites.

Ummm, I'm afraid I didn't read your posts. But I think you missed my point. Either they shouldn't have a website at all or have at least a halfway decent one that posts useful information that can somehow be attributed to folks working directly on the project (like MWeston appears to be).

Just because you can demonstrate that there are websites with more flash than substance doesn't negate the fact that for a "real" product most folks will be more comfortable with a "real" website. Now, if the Pandora folks have a specific reason for not doing a "real" website that's fine - but they might want to post the reason.

That halfway house they have is actually a big detraction. It also reflected badly on the linuxdevices website - I read that site quite a lot and I always respected it. I respected it a little less after the Pandora post.

Now that I've read more of this board (after someone clued me in to look for MWeston's posts) I do see that this is more than a pipe dream.

However, I (and a lot of other folks in this community) could do a paper design of a great new device and link to manufacturers spec sheets for their latest and greatest processors. It seems if I did that I could also get listed on linuxdevices. Weave a little magic with a good rendering and we too could be fueling "healthy suspicions" about a whole lot of things...

 

[Tobriand]

Well, the stuff we know about:

- Ran GBAX (www.gbax.com) from shortly after the GBA's release; at least one employee beside him, which implies the business must be reasonably sucessful.
- Successfuly managed the UK distribution and promotion of the GP2x (at least insofar as possible - not too many actual ads because GPH wouldn't pay for them if I understand correctly). www.gp2x.co.uk .

It's not Richard Branson's CV, but it's a couple of decent entries by any reckoning, if only because the companies in question still exist some years later. I will admit that retail is very different from production, though.

 

[craigix]

Hello there,

We do have a more 'flashy' website to go online when we are ready to deal with a little more publicity (we are not too happy that the pandora has shown up on linuxdevices already, as it said we are still in stealth mode). For now we have other areas to work on, but the site will go live soon.

What else would you like to know about me and the rest of the team?

Thanks,

Craig

 

[atomicthumbs]

Hello there,

We do have a more 'flashy' website to go online when we are ready to deal with a little more publicity (we are not too happy that the pandora has shown up on linuxdevices already, as it said we are still in stealth mode). For now we have other areas to work on, but the site will go live soon.

What else would you like to know about me and the rest of the team?

Thanks,

Craig

• Full name
• Address
• Bank account numbers and PINs
• Passwords to all relevant sites
• What brand of lock you use on your doors
• When you shower/sleep

:lol:

 

[jdh2550]

What else would you like to know about me and the rest of the team?

Hi,

I didn't mean to be overly negative - I was just a little surprised by the lack of "company presence" for a device that is supposedly only a few months away.

How big is the team? Do you have any affiliation to GPH? How exactly does one go about building one's own hardware?

That will do for starters ;-) (I also realize that you don't owe me any answers!)

When you're a little less busy (ha ha!) it really would be interesting for me (and I suspect others) to learn about how you bought your idea to life. Your either very rich (which I somehow doubt) or you must have gotten some serious backing.

While I've got your attention - can you build me a PDA that (a) runs linux, (B) has just an on/off button, © has integrated wi-fi (d) has a single USB host port? Such a device would make a wonderful platform for a whole host of projects. Sort of an open version of the iTouch (but with a USB host port).

 

[GaidinTS]

Hello there,

We do have a more 'flashy' website to go online when we are ready to deal with a little more publicity (we are not too happy that the pandora has shown up on linuxdevices already, as it said we are still in stealth mode). For now we have other areas to work on, but the site will go live soon.

What else would you like to know about me and the rest of the team?

Thanks,

Craig

I think what I'm most curious about (and maybe this has already been covered); how / where are they getting built. Have you announced who's going to be building these for you.

 

[Magnulus]

I didn't mean to be overly negative - I was just a little surprised by the lack of "company presence" for a device that is supposedly only a few months away.

Oh, really? How much did you know about the iPhone 4 months before it came out? What was the level of company presence, as you call it, before the Wii or the PS3 came out? Are you aware that you're actually given the opportunity to come right into an open internet forum and ask the actual people behind the product questions? Directly?! Have you any idea how RARE that is? I'm not sure you do.

 

[craigix]

We have no plans to say where they are being built, it is a series of companies doing various parts, then they are all being assembled in china (most likely).

The idea was brought to life after working in and around this industry for many years (since I was about 18) the project is privately funded by the team members.

 

[icurafu]

My family get's a lot of airport equipment built in china. We used to go oz until we found out that they were outsourcing to china anyway.

There is a lot to learn about where you get your parts made and assembled as prices vary and so does quality. All I can say is ask for references. And then check the internet for complaints against shoddy products. Ensure that their products have a history of conforming to the same standards that your product needs to.

 

[jdh2550]

I didn't mean to be overly negative - I was just a little surprised by the lack of "company presence" for a device that is supposedly only a few months away.

Oh, really? How much did you know about the iPhone 4 months before it came out? What was the level of company presence, as you call it, before the Wii or the PS3 came out?

Yes really. Err, with regard to the iPhone you may have heard of the company - they're called Apple. I would call that quite a large company presence. Same with the Wii and PS3. So, what exactly is the point you are trying to make with these product launches in comparison to the Pandora? Making comparisons between three consumer electronic giants and the Pandora is obviously pointless. As I've said in pretty much all my posts - I wish them nothing but luck. However, I've been around long enough to see great product ideas fail to become great products.

Are you aware that you're actually given the opportunity to come right into an open internet forum and ask the actual people behind the product questions? Directly?! Have you any idea how RARE that is? I'm not sure you do.
Yes, I am aware of that - why do you think I wouldn't be? But, exactly because of it's rarity, that makes me ask questions. Yet, when I ask questions that you don't approve of you post this snitty little message.

Good work there Magnulus. Don't get me wrong I'm more than happy to argue with you - but c'mon, get serious and try to put together a coherent argument.

As for everyone else who posted useful, friendly and helpful stuff, Chip, Tobriand and CraigIX - it is much appreciated. I look forward to buying the product.

 

[Chip]

I didn't mean to be overly negative - I was just a little surprised by the lack of "company presence" for a device that is supposedly only a few months away.

Oh, really? How much did you know about the iPhone 4 months before it came out? What was the level of company presence, as you call it, before the Wii or the PS3 came out? Are you aware that you're actually given the opportunity to come right into an open internet forum and ask the actual people behind the product questions? Directly?! Have you any idea how RARE that is? I'm not sure you do.


Whoa, settle down chief. Take a step back and look at the project from the outside for a minute. If you were not already acquainted with the dev team, would you automatically believe something as complex and expensive as a palmtop Linux computer / gaming platform could be designed and built by (basically) three guys? If you went to their website to find out more about the device and saw this, would that improve your credulity?

Like Craig said, the website isn't really ready for prime time because the whole project is still only semi-public. But someone coming in to the official site with no prior knowledge is not likely to be filled with confidence in the reality of a system that already seems too good to be true. I'm not saying the site needs an immediate upgrade, or that it should be taken down for the time being. I'm just suggesting that you cut newcomers a little slack if they get the wrong first impression.

 

[Magnulus]

- they're called Apple. I would call that quite a large company presence.

I am sorry. By "company presence" I assumed you meant that the company was present with information on the project, etc, which is why I drew those comparisons. My entire post is redundant due to this lapse in comprehension. My apologies.

The people who annoy me, the people I directed my post at, believing you were one of them, are the people who try to give the impression that Craig and MWeston and ED are being overly tight-lipped and do their best to scrounge every last bit of minutae out of them. My annoyance at this led to what was probably an overly crass reply.

Again, I'm sorry.

 

[MWeston]

Yes really. Err, with regard to the iPhone you may have heard of the company - they're called Apple. I would call that quite a large company presence. Same with the Wii and PS3. So, what exactly is the point you are trying to make with these product launches in comparison to the Pandora? Making comparisons between three consumer electronic giants and the Pandora is obviously pointless. As I've said in pretty much all my posts - I wish them nothing but luck. However, I've been around long enough to see great product ideas fail to become great products.

I get what you are saying jdh2550. If I read your first posts to the forum right, you only heard of this project from the 'early' publicity on linuxdevices? I love that site and I check it out at least once per day. I love reading about the latest hardware to support the penguin.

They are a reputable site and generally post information for devices that are already out or shipping very quickly. I assume that information generally comes from the manufacturer which was not the case on this project. I am totally thrilled to see Pandora featured there, but without the background of this forum you are looking at the openpandora.org website and feeling discouraged that it isn't much. Truth be told, that site was never officially released to the public. We sent out flyers to existing customers and other supporters so that they could find the site and share it with this community. Nothing stays a secret and we didn't expect it to, but you have to be patient (and maybe even be happy) that you are not talking to Sony on a project like this!

I do think you have made a mistake comparing the information shared here with those "leaked" articles for the latest iPod, PS3 and such. This wasn't our intent. The community here gets a preview much earlier to help shape the system with as much usability as possible. Not being Sony/Apple/Etc.. puts us in the situation of not being able to give everyone what they want and still make money (or make it up in licensing as the big boys can). The system you see in render is quite close to what the final product will be.

I hope you won't be offended by the fact that February is shaping up to be a quiet month for information. There is a ton of "behind the scenes" stuff going on right now and I think it is a bad idea to update with every little thing that happens. The next update is likely to be a big one and should re-spark your interest, and everyone else's as well. We might have to make that logo contest official in Feb. so there is something to talk about.