720p? 1080p? 1440p?

[EssoAir]

Ooo (plz dont let this derail the thread but its on my mind) if it were x86 I would love to see SteamOS ported to the P2 which would so cool


Ok on subject personally the P1 is quite pocketable to me so I think that is still a very valod argument.

 

[slaeshjag]

Well when does it stop being a handheld and edges into the netbook realm?

What is the problem with a small netbook with good gaming controls? I just took my Asus eee pc with 7" screen in my hands and I can see a lighter and smaller version - but the same screen size and gaming controls - work. The eeepc has a huge bezel. So make that smaller, smaller keyboard and no touchpad and voilà.

Keeping the same case or not, the Pandora is pretty much on the limits of pocketability. 5" is probably the maximum because if it were any bigger it would have to make the case bigger which, as suggested, is already at the limits of comfortable pockets. In fact, a number of wishlists have asked for something just a little bit smaller, so there's significant interest in not making it any bigger if it can be avoided.

Never understood the 'need to be able to carry it in my pocket' argument. Pandora is already much too large and heavy to do that, carrying it will ruin your trousers and makes you walk funny. Maybe this is an argument for kids playing games on the school yard but that is a period I can't even remember anymore .

I think from a gaming device point of view there is already quite some competition (e.g. Shield). The real advantage of the Pandora is its ability to be more than a gaming handheld. It is a Linux mini-pc with gaming controls.

Back when my pandora still worked, I carried it with me everywhere in my pocket. Sure, it's a bit big, but I just made sure to get jeans with large enough pockets

Personally, I'd never buy a pandora if I can't put it in my pocket, as then I might as well just bring my laptop för all my computing needs.

 

[bzar]

Never understood the 'need to be able to carry it in my pocket' argument. Pandora is already much too large and heavy to do that, carrying it will ruin your trousers and makes you walk funny. Maybe this is an argument for kids playing games on the school yard but that is a period I can't even remember anymore .

I think from a gaming device point of view there is already quite some competition (e.g. Shield). The real advantage of the Pandora is its ability to be more than a gaming handheld. It is a Linux mini-pc with gaming controls.

Currently it juuuust goes into my biking utility belt, providing me with both biking music and fun stuff to do while resting. Also my bag has a spot it just snugly fits in.

Assuming more size means more weight, even the current revision gets a bit heavy on the wrists if you play long enough.

 

[_wb_]

As I said before: the size we have is just about perfect. Slightly slimmer and stronger would improve pocketability. Slightly bigger horizontal size would be possible, but the vertical size is as big as it can get without becoming a small tablet/netbook.

Touch is not important to me. I wouldn't really mind if it gets a screen without any touch.

 

[EssoAir]

As I said before: the size we have is just about perfect. Slightly slimmer and stronger would improve pocketability. Slightly bigger horizontal size would be possible, but the vertical size is as big as it can get without becoming a small tablet/netbook.


Touch is not important to me. I wouldn't really mind if it gets a screen without any touch.

I.e. thats why it could be capacitive with the optional digitizer pen fornthose that want it. The pen not being in the case night make things a bit more roomy

 

[Exophase]

Touch is not important to me. I wouldn't really mind if it gets a screen without any touch.

Let's not do that, thanks.

I appreciate that you qualified this as only being applicable to your tastes and I apologize if this sounds harsh because I really am just curious.. why do you state something like this when you know it goes broadly against common interest? It's like if I said that the gaming controls don't matter to me, Pandora could just as well drop them. It's not hurting anything to mention this but it's totally superfluous.

 

[WizardStan]

I.e. thats why it could be capacitive with the optional digitizer pen fornthose that want it. The pen not being in the case night make things a bit more roomy

How small can these digitizer pens be made, I wonder. We could have a slot for a generic capacitive pen with a standard tip which you could then remove and replace with the more expensive digitizer style.Keep in mind this probably all pointless discussion: it's highly unlikely that the necessary guts for a digitizer screen will be cheap enough to just add and be ignored. I'm also still not condoning capacitive screens either, just making suggestions.

 

[_wb_]

Touch is not important to me. I wouldn't really mind if it gets a screen without any touch.

Let's not do that, thanks.


I appreciate that you qualified this as only being applicable to your tastes and I apologize if this sounds harsh because I really am just curious.. why do you state something like this when you know it goes broadly against common interest? It's like if I said that the gaming controls don't matter to me, Pandora could just as well drop them. It's not hurting anything to mention this but it's totally superfluous.

I'm just saying that because it is how I currently use my Pandora. I'm not saying the successor should not have touch -- in fact, I think it should have touch if only because the P1 has it and because people expect it in modern devices. But I am saying that if you let me choose between a crappy screen (e.g. huge ghosting) with excellent accurate multitouch and an excellent screen without any touch, I would pick the latter any day.

Also if the fancy touch makes the device significantly more expensive or heavier/bulkier or more power hungry, that would a pity in my opinion.

This is just my opinion. I want to communicate my opinion because it might a (minority) opinion that might get overlooked in the heat of a resistive vs capacitive or big or small stylus debate.

I'm not saying that my personal taste should dictate how the P2 should be designed. But maybe my "I don't care about touch" position can somewhat counterbalance some other positions of the type "it needs a $500 ultra-accurate multi-touch with five trillion pressure sensitivity levels!!!111eleven", so we can arrive at some reasonable compromise.

 

[b_o_b]

Every decision that ED needs to make will have some negative impact for someone. I can only analyse my use of P1 and based on that I really would like to have a larger screen. If ED disagrees.. well, tough luck for me...


My P1 use:  

1. Media player - video
2. Gaming old computers/ handhelds / consoles - C64 - MZ800 - NES - GB - GBA - Atari etc
3. Gaming PSX
4. Homebrew
5. emacs - orgmode
6. FBreader

For the current software that P1 is capable of running I would say 90% of above is covered, works well and I have no real problem with the current screensize. PSX and Video play will definitely benefit from a larger screen. Orgmode and FBreader too, because you can have more information on screen, but that is not a biggie.  

What I currently don't use P1 for (or use a lot less) due to the screensize and will certainly be better on a 7" P2:

- XFCE and any software using a gui - and that is a lot! - is a problem due to the current screensize. Lots of great desktop software is just not comfortable.   
- some games - e.g warzone 2100
- Xjournal  

- Web browser

P2 will become faster so capable of running more desktop software / games with higher resolution. So IMO the smaller screen will become even more of a problem for P2 than P1.

side notes:
If P2 is larger, you can also have a larger and more comfortable keyboard.
Not sure, but I assume 7" screens are a lot more common and more alternatives available for purchase? Maybe even lower in price?

Of course there are some concerns:

- battery consumption - more screen => more battery use.
- weight should still be comfortable and easy to reach all gaming buttons. This is my main concern, but based on the not validated test with an eeepc I think it should be possible.   
- a bit less portable / not a concern for me personally though - I use my P1 mainly at home.

And no, I don't want to buy a laptop or a netbook. Having one device doing it all is what appeals to me and with a larger screen - even if it is only 5.5 or 6 " - it will be capable of doing a lot more. 

 

[FaeMinx]

I.e. thats why it could be capacitive with the optional digitizer pen fornthose that want it. The pen not being in the case night make things a bit more roomy

How small can these digitizer pens be made, I wonder. We could have a slot for a generic capacitive pen with a standard tip which you could then remove and replace with the more expensive digitizer style.
Keep in mind this probably all pointless discussion: it's highly unlikely that the necessary guts for a digitizer screen will be cheap enough to just add and be ignored. I'm also still not condoning capacitive screens either, just making suggestions.

My Note 8.0 Spen is 11.5cm long and not much thicker than the Pandora stylus (about 6mm)... the Note 2 Spen is a bit shorter and thinner.

I don't think it's really the cost of the digitizer pen we need to be worrying about - it's the digitizer layer beneath the screen... 

The pen also has to be calibrated to the screen you are using - you can't just use any old digitizer pen. My Wacom Cintiq pens don't work on my Note and and vise versa.

Honestly, if you are going to include a pen as standard - use the pen that's made for the screen. It's pointless including a capacitive pen if you have a digitizer installed.

 

[EssoAir]

I.e. thats why it could be capacitive with the optional digitizer pen fornthose that want it. The pen not being in the case night make things a bit more roomy

How small can these digitizer pens be made, I wonder. We could have a slot for a generic capacitive pen with a standard tip which you could then remove and replace with the more expensive digitizer style.Keep in mind this probably all pointless discussion: it's highly unlikely that the necessary guts for a digitizer screen will be cheap enough to just add and be ignored. I'm also still not condoning capacitive screens either, just making suggestions.

Well looking at the S-Pens found in the Galaxy Note, Id say about the same size as the stylus thats currently in the P1

 

[EssoAir]

I.e. thats why it could be capacitive with the optional digitizer pen fornthose that want it. The pen not being in the case night make things a bit more roomy

How small can these digitizer pens be made, I wonder. We could have a slot for a generic capacitive pen with a standard tip which you could then remove and replace with the more expensive digitizer style.
Keep in mind this probably all pointless discussion: it's highly unlikely that the necessary guts for a digitizer screen will be cheap enough to just add and be ignored. I'm also still not condoning capacitive screens either, just making suggestions.

 
My Note 8.0 Spen is 11.5cm long and not much thicker than the Pandora stylus (about 6mm)... the Note 2 Spen is a bit shorter and thinner.


I don't think it's really the cost of the digitizer pen we need to be worrying about - it's the digitizer layer beneath the screen... 


The pen also has to be calibrated to the screen you are using - you can't just use any old digitizer pen. My Wacom Cintiq pens don't work on my Note and and vise versa.


Honestly, if you are going to include a pen as standard - use the pen that's made for the screen. It's pointless including a capacitive pen if you have a digitizer installed.

I would love to help ED out by looking into this. Maybe Samsung sells their displays from the Note line that include the digitizer and pen? Where should I start looking?

 

[FaeMinx]

I would love to help ED out by looking into this. Maybe Samsung sells their displays from the Note line that include the digitizer and pen? Where should I start looking?

I googled and found these:

http://shengyilcd.en.alibaba.com/product/1144397642-218090970/galaxy_note_2_lcd_with_digitizer_with_wholesale_price.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-for-samsung-galaxy-note-2-lcd-with-digitizer.html

http://www.dhgate.com/wholesale/galaxy+note+2+lcd.html

 

[EssoAir]

I would love to help ED out by looking into this. Maybe Samsung sells their displays from the Note line that include the digitizer and pen? Where should I start looking?

 
I googled and found these:

http://shengyilcd.en.alibaba.com/product/1144397642-218090970/galaxy_note_2_lcd_with_digitizer_with_wholesale_price.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-for-samsung-galaxy-note-2-lcd-with-digitizer.html

http://www.dhgate.com/wholesale/galaxy+note+2+lcd.html

OMG! Thats a 720p screen with integrated capacative touch and S-Pen digitizer that is readily available in large supply. We may have just found a good contender

Is ED still checking this thread?

 

[b_o_b]

I agree, very interesting... Note 2 screen would be a very nice solution and with the s-pen should please folks that like to have the accuracy of a resistive and the comfort of a capacitive screen.

 

[Esn]

(but a refresh rate of 35ms, so not usable for us).

Out of curiosity, what were the refresh rates of the Pandora and the GP32? I ask because I notice ghosting on my Pandora, but not on my GP32.
Regarding that screen above, does it say anywhere what its refresh rate is?

 

[edgex004]

Regarding that screen above, does it say anywhere what its refresh rate is?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1988612

58Hz (17ms) according to that thread. I am not sure if that is the number we are looking for, but is at least what the Note 2's are reporting.

 

[EssoAir]

but the question is, open source drivers?

 

[EvilDragon]

Errm, guys, it needs to be a screen I can buy from the manufacturer (or an official distributor), not just any stock from any small company.

And it should be a pretty new one as well, as especially smartphone-screens will be EOL shortly after the smartphone is not being built anymore.

 

[EssoAir]

Errm, guys, it needs to be a screen I can buy from the manufacturer (or an official distributor), not just any stock from any small company.And it should be a pretty new one as well, as especially smartphone-screens will be EOL shortly after the smartphone is not being built anymore.

So smartphone screens are out of the option?