720p? 1080p? 1440p?

[EvilDragon]

ED what are your thoughts in a digitizer?

First let's find an LCD.

Such extras can be tested later.

I don't want an 800 EUR device in the end.

 

[matzesu]

So, i think for a Retro Emulation and Homebrewhandheld, the 780 p Screen should be enought..

But  about 100 PokeDollar more for 1280 p , isnt a Problem for me, as the Pandora2 is a "Hobby" ..

And a Hobby, also can be expensive (Driving a Unimog, or Play Piano is much more expensive)..

I think, i can go until 800 Poke Dollar for the Pandora 2, but maybe it isnt that expensive.. (i hope so)

EDIT: And when whe now search for an LCD, dos this means, there will be a Pandora 2 ??

 

[pmprog]

I've got a quotation for a 5" 720p LCD (sadly, it never went to production) for 38USD

If it never went to production, then surely it's not really an option? or would they produce them solely for you?

 

[EssoAir]

ED what are your thoughts in a digitizer?

First let's find an LCD.Such extras can be tested later.I don't want an 800 EUR device in the end.

Would a SuoerLCD or SuperOLED be an option? It would be brighter and also potentially save money since the touch and the display parts are combined.

 

[EvilDragon]

I've got a quotation for a 5" 720p LCD (sadly, it never went to production) for 38USD

If it never went to production, then surely it's not really an option? or would they produce them solely for you?

 Nope, but other 720p displays had a similar price (but a refresh rate of 35ms, so not usable for us).

And all 1080p displays I found also had a similar high price.

Would a SuoerLCD or SuperOLED be an option? It would be brighter and also potentially save money since the touch and the display parts are combined.

Anything that fits our needs is helpful (so 4,9 - 5,1" probably, preferably with 720p, if not applicable then higher) with a typical refresh rate of 25ms or less.

Any ideas won't help me here, I'd need manufacturers and product codes to check them out.

I'm looking for a display for 8 months now, and so far we only found about 2 - 3 that fit our purpose.

 

[WizardStan]

You read the rest of my post right? You can do multitouch with multiple resistive elements, but it's still limited and it's not too hard to see why it isn't attractive and might not even be feasible in smaller form factors.

Yes, but that's using zoning, as you pointed out. The demos I saw had no such restrictions: two pens on the screen, they were brought close together, dragged apart, rotated around each other, all with the a circle on the screen with a radius relative to the pressure on the point of contact. The 10 touch screens were demo'd by someone running their fingers across it, leaving a highlight. All 10 fingers dragged down and across and in circles without problem. How, I have no idea.

 

[_wb_]

It makes sense to put a good but expensive screen in a P2 imo; ~100 EUR for just the screen is OK for me, the screen is after all a very important component in the total experience. But the resolution is not the problem: any recent screen will be at least 720p and that is more than enough. A higher resolution does not in itself make it better after that point.

Response time is probably the main thing we have to watch for. The Pandora 1 screen is very nice (power friendly etc), but it does have noticable ghosting - not as bad as in other devices, but noticable nonetheless. It would be silly to make a Pandora 2 with more ghosting than the Pandora 1. A full HD screen may be nice to watch still images with (using a microscope), or even 24 fps movies, but for 60 fps games it might very well suck.

The other main thing to watch for is power consumption. It will be hard to beat the power footprint of our current screen, especially if we want a larger screen.

Other important things are contrast, daylight visibility, and pixel arrangement (RGB or PenTile).

tl;dr : Don't worry about resolution. Worry about other things!

 

[mcobit]

It is completely crazy what you cqn do with oleds these days.


Have a look what pixel densities you can achieve on a very small area:


http://www.emagin.com/oled-microdisplays/


Ok. Too small for a Pandora, but wouldn't it be cool if you could puzzle some of those together for a bigger screen?

 

[Exophase]

Yes, but that's using zoning, as you pointed out. The demos I saw had no such restrictions: two pens on the screen, they were brought close together, dragged apart, rotated around each other, all with the a circle on the screen with a radius relative to the pressure on the point of contact. The 10 touch screens were demo'd by someone running their fingers across it, leaving a highlight. All 10 fingers dragged down and across and in circles without problem. How, I have no idea.

Okay, I looked around and found more demos from Stantum. If you have another manufacturer with demos please post it.

Here is a paper that describes their methodology:

http://www.stantum.com/medias/whitepapers/Developing_the_First_Commercial_Product_that_Uses_Multi-Touch_Technology.pdf

The difference between it and the one I posted before is it scans each zone in sequence so it can truly isolate it, and it uses a ton of electrodes. Seven per centimeter. I'm expecting this technology to be very expensive.

 

[WizardStan]

I can't remember the manufacturer. It's been quite some time, unfortunately. It seemed like pretty amazing tech, multi-touch (even dual touch) without sacrificing accuracy or sensitivity. I always assumed it was more expensive but didn't consider it would be so much more expensive that it simply wouldn't garner any large scale attention at all. So sad.

 

[EssoAir]

I can't remember the manufacturer. It's been quite some time, unfortunately. It seemed like pretty amazing tech, multi-touch (even dual touch) without sacrificing accuracy or sensitivity. I always assumed it was more expensive but didn't consider it would be so much more expensive that it simply wouldn't garner any large scale attention at all. So sad.

But is that not what Wacom does? highly accurate, pressure sensative multitouch?

 

[WizardStan]

I thought Wacom touch panels required a pen. All the ones I used, the pressure sensitivity was actually in the pen itself, not the screen.

 

[EssoAir]

Correct, but combined with a capacitive touch panel, you can choose to use finger or pen. So when yiu want pressure sensitivity, use use the single touch pen. when you want multitouch, you use your fingers but loose pressure sensativity.

 

[WizardStan]

I'm not sure that's really an equivalent substitute. For starters, those pens are expensive and I can already imagine a lot of people complaining how easy they are to lose.

Second, and this is obviously personal preference and I can't speak of how wide spread it goes, but I like being able to do a quick diagram with my fingernail. To be fair, this is a really poor usecase I'm giving: either I'm doodling a couple of quick flow chart boxes and fingertip would be accurate enough, or I'm filling in details for which a stylus would be much better suited anyway, but it still has a feeling of wrongness, you know?

Am I just being "old" and refusing to embrace change in this instance?

 

[Klumpen]

I'm using the fingernail too sometimes, because it's not worth the hassle taking out the pen just for 1 or 2 actions.

 

[Ian J]

I'd love P2 to use an OLED, playing fast moving games on my Galaxy 3 with no blurring compared to Pandora is worlds apart.

 

[MrConfusion]

A touchscreen that is not accurate is useless to me, since a lot of software is going to run 1:1 and a 1920x1080 resolution will make it hard enough to do things like doubleclicking as it is. There will be software that is going to be a direct port from the desktop because no-one will bother to work on it. Doubling pixels... well, depends on how easy such tricks are to turn on and off... I fear the worst until I see it in action.

The current Pandora screen already has too small text for me unless I configure a lot.

I also would like a fast screen with less pixels. Current density is OK for me... barely... because it could not be smaller either, then there would be more of the other problems like windows in direct ports not fitting to screen.

Wacom would be great in accuracy, but almost surely not worth the extra complexity and price.

It will be interesting to see how this develops, if availability of "small screens" is an issue.

Would it be terribly difficult to have the screen built-to-order for each Pandora? I.e. support two screen types? I would, with all current info, probably order a P2 with something more like the current screen, than what is talked about here :wacko: .

(Addition: I realized later that the modular thinking thing is also flawed, because it is unlikely a lower resolution screen than 720p would be available very long anymore, if 720p screen availability is dwindling ... this is going to be interesting indeed... )

 

[FaeMinx]

Well, seems we can't make *everyone* happy.

If you decide on resistive, then the Andriod part of the P2 will be sub-par... Limiting potential user base. If Android isn't a priority, then resistive is perfect.

If Android *is* important, then I see no other option than having to include a digitizer of some sort with the capacitive screen.

The pen could be sold as an optional extra - you could just use a 3rd party pen. I certainly do not suggest designing one just for the P2, so the pen would have to live in the carry case. (too big)

Now issues of convenience come up. Plus... added costs and complications.

Honestly, I foresee the most logical option being resistive with a software work-around for multitouch.

EDIT: But my personal preference is for a capactive screen with digitizer - Always would be for any artist (far superior pressure sensitivity and palm rejection than resistive), and I don't mind the added inconvenience... I always bring extra kit with me anyway.

 

[EssoAir]

Good idea! If we include the digitizer in the device but not the pen.That way the pen is like an upgrade.

 

[ShleeDragon]

Only 5"?