720p? 1080p? 1440p?

[thatgui]

If P2 is larger, you can also have a larger and more comfortable keyboard.

But the device gets a lot heavier and less comfortable to hold (or do you hold a netbook in your hands for a longer period ?) as the center of mass moves out of our palm area. Making the Pandora bigger sure would have some benefits, but also means we loose a unique selling point (and at least one customer => me).

I think the size it currently has is quite nice (could be a bit thinner though), horizontally it could grow half a centimer or even a little more to accomodate, but thats it.

Errm, guys, it needs to be a screen I can buy from the manufacturer (or an official distributor), not just any stock from any small company.


And it should be a pretty new one as well, as especially smartphone-screens will be EOL shortly after the smartphone is not being built anymore.

Forgive me as I have no clue about what it means to buy parts for an electronic device and keep supply up for it, but could you not just buy a huge chunk of them ?

 

[_wb_]

Errm, guys, it needs to be a screen I can buy from the manufacturer (or an official distributor), not just any stock from any small company.


And it should be a pretty new one as well, as especially smartphone-screens will be EOL shortly after the smartphone is not being built anymore.

Forgive me as I have no clue about what it means to buy parts for an electronic device and keep supply up for it, but could you not just buy a huge chunk of them ?

You can do that with inexpensive parts, but with expensive components like screens and SoCs, you don't want to buy more than what you can sell. How many of them would you buy?

Of course it could be an interesting strategy for ED to pick some fixed number of units and call it a limited edition device. That might help for sales (people will be less inclined to postpone their purchase), and it certainly helps for planning. So for example he could say:  there will be only 5000 units of this device, and no more. The number would have to be small enough to make sure that they can all be sold (relatively quickly) and to make sure that there is money to buy all components in advance. It would have to be large enough to make it worth the effort and to make sure that everyone who really wants one can get one.

Then when all are sold, a new "limited edition" device can be created, and so on.

If you want to sustain a long-term community and some kind of continuity, the above strategy only works if the chain of limited edition devices are all backwards compatible (hardware and software). Otherwise the community would become hopelessly  fragmented and support becomes a nightmare.

 

[thatgui]

You can do that with inexpensive parts, but with expensive components like screens and SoCs, you don't want to buy more than what you can sell. How many of them would you buy?

Of course it could be an interesting strategy for ED to pick some fixed number of units and call it a limited edition device. That might help for sales (people will be less inclined to postpone their purchase), and it certainly helps for planning. So for example he could say:  there will be only 5000 units of this device, and no more. The number would have to be small enough to make sure that they can all be sold (relatively quickly) and to make sure that there is money to buy all components in advance. It would have to be large enough to make it worth the effort and to make sure that everyone who really wants one can get one.

Then when all are sold, a new "limited edition" device can be created, and so on.

If you want to sustain a long-term community and some kind of continuity, the above strategy only works if the chain of limited edition devices are all backwards compatible (hardware and software). Otherwise the community would become hopelessly  fragmented and support becomes a nightmare.

But didn't that happen already ? It was planned to produce a fixed number of Pandoras with the last 500 going in production soon with the successor already in planning stage.

If it is really is the SGN2s screen I would be willing to take the risk to buy a bulk of it (but I don't have to pay for it, so I'am obviously not in the right position to have any valuable arguments to add in that regard).

 

[ekianjo]

could you not just buy a huge chunk of them ?

Then who will pay for the huge chunk of money needed? Obviously this is heavy investment  and you want to minimize the number of parts you store for too long since inventory is taxable.  

 

[FaeMinx]

could you not just buy a huge chunk of them ?

Then who will pay for the huge chunk of money needed? Obviously this is heavy investment and you want to minimize the number of parts you store for too long since inventory is taxable.

Ok so I know ED said he didn't want to do this, but...

What if we source all the parts we need, work out the cost per unit and then get everyone to put a down payment to cover parts costs and to secure your limited edition unit.

Then, when the unit is assembled and ready to ship, you have to pay the remainder of the costs (assembly, shipping, profits etc.) to get your unit.

Almost like a kickstarter except you pay once to fund the project, and then again to buy your unit.

The initial investment should be buffered a bit to allow ED to buy more parts than he needs so he can sell some additional units at FULL price to new customers... this would be a way to make even more profit and to cover the possibility of some people wanting refunds if they find the final price is too much for them.

ED could give a ball park estimate of the final total cost but would stipulate that he could be off by a 100 - 200 euro or so and that backers need to prepare for that.

He could even go so far as saying that if a refund is requested after making the commitment to buy the final product, then only a partial refund would be possible.

I'm only suggesting this strategy because it's ED. I wouldn't enter into such a project with anyone else...

 

[fusion_power]

Errm, guys, it needs to be a screen I can buy from the manufacturer (or an official distributor), not just any stock from any small company.


And it should be a pretty new one as well, as especially smartphone-screens will be EOL shortly after the smartphone is not being built anymore.

DOes every Smartphone uses custom made screens just for this phone? Would be inefficient imho. I hope there are common standard parts and sizes so that mayn phones use the same type of screen, at least this would save costs compared to develop a completely new screen for every Smartphone.  I guess Apple does that but there are so many different brands and models besides Apple, I doubt they all use custom screens that are abandoned when the phone is out of production.

So let's search for "the one" screen that is built the most and may be produced for many more years.

 

[FaeMinx]

Errm, guys, it needs to be a screen I can buy from the manufacturer (or an official distributor), not just any stock from any small company.

And it should be a pretty new one as well, as especially smartphone-screens will be EOL shortly after the smartphone is not being built anymore.

DOes every Smartphone uses custom made screens just for this phone? Would be inefficient imho. I hope there are common standard parts and sizes so that mayn phones use the same type of screen, at least this would save costs compared to develop a completely new screen for every Smartphone. I guess Apple does that but there are so many different brands and models besides Apple, I doubt they all use custom screens that are abandoned when the phone is out of production.
So let's search for "the one" screen that is built the most and may be produced for many more years.

So... know any other phone screens that include a digitizer apart from the Note series?

IMO the Note 2 screen is the ideal size, ppi, and has a digitizer. Alternatives? I didn't think there were any.

Note 3 is now getting too big and the ppi is excessive.
It would be interesting to see if the original Note 1 screens are still available - to estimate long term availability of Note 2 screens.

I would guess that the quantities Samsung produce for their phones, means that even when they stop producing, there will still be large quantities of excess parts... I imagine the way to go would be to know the right people to secure a portion of the excess... Perhaps even at fire sale prices.

 

[EssoAir]

The Note 1 uses a different,ess accurate technology. The Note2 has a far better display

 

[Letalis Sonus]

BTW: Those Wacom "touchscreens" are neither resistive nor capacitive. They are inductive, it's basically just a tablet integrated into the screen. Inductive tablets are actually constructed rather simple, I kinda get the impression that their high price is largely based on the fact that Wacom is a monopolist.

 

[EssoAir]

Makes sense. Corner the market an raise the price. Thanks Walter White

 

[3_bit]

Having a GPU drive that at full res with games would be... well, futile. Unless we have a discrete GPU.

 

[EssoAir]

Note 2 is only 720p tho. not 1080p like the 3

 

[fusion_power]

So... know any other phone screens that include a digitizer apart from the Note series?

IMO the Note 2 screen is the ideal size, ppi, and has a digitizer. Alternatives? I didn't think there were any.

Note 3 is now getting too big and the ppi is excessive.

It would be interesting to see if the original Note 1 screens are still available - to estimate long term availability of Note 2 screens.

I would guess that the quantities Samsung produce for their phones, means that even when they stop producing, there will still be large quantities of excess parts... I imagine the way to go would be to know the right people to secure a portion of the excess... Perhaps even at fire sale prices.

Digitizer? I doubt the screen has to be that fancy, nobody needs an multitouch screen that only works with Digitizers if you don't want to use your fingers. I only had "normal" touch screens in mind for the "P2", like the one from the Pandora, just better. I'm sure you can glue alot of different touch-technologies onto an LCD so instead of these Smartphone stuff just use the oldfashioned Touchscreen like we already have.

 

[Ian J]

I think a lot of these "extras" for the screen are taking away from what the Pandora  is, a pocket PC.

Is the ability to use a stylus on the screen going to be that useful on a 5" screen?

I keep forgetting the P1 even has touch screen as I use the nubs in mouse mode for finer movements.

 

[EssoAir]

I think a lot of these "extras" for the screen are taking away from what the Pandora is, a pocket PC.


Is the ability to use a stylus on the screen going to be that useful on a 5" screen?


I keep forgetting the P1 even has touch screen as I use the nubs in mouse mode for finer movements.

Personally I dont use the P1's touch screen but if it is to have Android pre-installed I think that a touchscreen is necessary. We as a group arrived at a capacitive multitouch + digitizer to satisfy everyone. The only complaints eith the screen would be compatability and cost. But the display resolution is the one most people want (720p -- although I want 1080p if we went with the Note 2's screen I would be perfectly happy), it has multitouch that works well with your fingers for Android, and it has the accuracy of a stylus with the digitizer. Its like the one-size-fits-all of displays.

 

[FaeMinx]

BTW: Those Wacom "touchscreens" are neither resistive nor capacitive. They are inductive, it's basically just a tablet integrated into the screen. Inductive tablets are actually constructed rather simple, I kinda get the impression that their high price is largely based on the fact that Wacom is a monopolist.

I know! It's a pain. They charge the earth for their tech... I think they have it patented. I hope it's not too much longer before their patent runs out or a competitor comes up with superior or comparable tech because I also hate monopolies. They can set whatever price they like and aren't motivated to innovate much.

I must just point out my Wacom Cintiq 12wx screen is *only* inductive, while the Note 2 is capacitive & inductive (I.e. superior, well relatively).

So... know any other phone screens that include a digitizer apart from the Note series?


IMO the Note 2 screen is the ideal size, ppi, and has a digitizer. Alternatives? I didn't think there were any.


Note 3 is now getting too big and the ppi is excessive.


It would be interesting to see if the original Note 1 screens are still available - to estimate long term availability of Note 2 screens.


I would guess that the quantities Samsung produce for their phones, means that even when they stop producing, there will still be large quantities of excess parts... I imagine the way to go would be to know the right people to secure a portion of the excess... Perhaps even at fire sale prices.

Digitizer? I doubt the screen has to be that fancy, nobody needs an multitouch screen that only works with Digitizers if you don't want to use your fingers. I only had "normal" touch screens in mind for the "P2", like the one from the Pandora, just better. I'm sure you can glue alot of different touch-technologies onto an LCD so instead of these Smartphone stuff just use the oldfashioned Touchscreen like we already have.

I'm a bit confused? Are you saying that the Note 2 screen doesn't do multitouch without the digitizer??? The digitizer is for pressure sensitive *accurate* pen input only.

Multitouch is handled by the capacitive screen. You can effectively use multitouch while using the pen at the same time, or you could disable the pen, or you could disable the capacitive and have pen only mode. It's very versatile.

I think a lot of these "extras" for the screen are taking away from what the Pandora  is, a pocket PC.

Is the ability to use a stylus on the screen going to be that useful on a 5" screen?

I keep forgetting the P1 even has touch screen as I use the nubs in mouse mode for finer movements.

Well, I for one never use the nubs for mouse... it's so awkward. The stylus is far more natural and intuitive for me. IMHO you can't have a 'pocket pc' that doesn't *at least* have a resistive screen. Also, IMHO a 'pocket pc' isn't a true pocket pc if it has only a capacitive screen - you need the accuracy that only comes with a digitizer.

 

[_wb_]

The Note 2 screen is perfect indeed. Maybe it is just a bit too large (5.55"), but perhaps a reversed hinge arrangement can make enough room (of course that implies a smaller base and less PCB area).

It is perfect for various reasons:

• The touch is supposedly very good.
• The resolution is perfect: 1280x720 is a nice upgrade from 800x480, without the insane overkill of higher resolutions
• The pixels are real RGB pixels, not the 2-subpixels-per-pixel PenTile crap
• It's an AMOLED screen, meaning excellent response time (no ghosting), great contrast, and efficient power consumption (in particular if you're like me and prefer white text on a black background)

So yes, if we can get that one, that would be perfect.

 

[b_o_b]

But the device gets a lot heavier and less comfortable to hold (or do you hold a netbook in your hands for a longer period ?) as the center of mass moves out of our palm area. Making the Pandora bigger sure would have some benefits, but also means we loose a unique selling point (and at least one customer => me).
I think the size it currently has is quite nice (could be a bit thinner though), horizontally it could grow half a centimer or even a little more to accomodate, but thats it.

I have seen kids play for hours on a 10" iPad and that is quite heavy. You don't have to hold it in your hands the whole time. I usually support my pandora sitting down on my knee or lying down on my stomach. 

Personally I think the majority of users will like a larger Pandora (and of course there are certain limits), but it would be a big change and people usually don't like changes

6" would be a very nice size IMO and still have the benefits of being portable and might be acceptable to the rest of the community. 7" is my favourite size, but I don't see that happening...

I can live with a 5.5" screen - e.g Note 2 - with good clarity and resolution though. 

 

[b_o_b]

Is the ability to use a stylus on the screen going to be that useful on a 5" screen?

Stylus is a lot faster in use then nubs and I don't see anyone scribbling with the nubs (xjournal)

I agree that a stylus will perform better on larger screens though, for note taking I think the Note 8 has the perfect size.   

 

[TrashyMG]

I think a lot of these "extras" for the screen are taking away from what the Pandora  is, a pocket PC.

Is the ability to use a stylus on the screen going to be that useful on a 5" screen?

I keep forgetting the P1 even has touch screen as I use the nubs in mouse mode for finer movements.

My first smart phone has a 3.2" screen and was resistive touch so it needed a stylist and found it really useful as it didn't have a keyboard.


I also don't use my touchscreen much, only when I need to run the nubs in mouse mode. However with Drastic it's been getting a little bit of use as of late.