5" 1080p screens becoming a reality just in time for P2?
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Grench
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Agreed. I think that 5" is a sweet spot in screen size, but the manufacturers are just slowly starting to see it.
The old Palm computing had it right. If it doesn't disappear into a man's left front pocket, then the device is too big. All of these e-readers and tablets at 7"+ are great for women or guys with man bags.
I've tried to convince a couple of phone places to sell me either a Galaxy Note or S3 on a tablet plan. They won't of course - company policies prevent it.
I had seen one article around a year back that PixelQi had created a few sample 5" screens.
I'd also seen a message from CraigIX saying that they'd gotten a PixelQi sample (not sure if it was the 5") and that it was neat but too expensive to use.
5" diagonal is about the same size as a page in a paperback book. Perfect reading size. Holding a Pandora 2 sideways so it's open like a book with the screen to the left... I could see reading a few novels that way.
Whether it's the new 1080p screens coming out, the PixelQi mystery 5" or existing tech - I hope that Michael, Craig and ED take a good long look at what is or will be available - and assess them based on actual testing and not on assumptions made here.
sswam
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I have a netbook (SunBook) with PixelQi screen. I like it, and it works well outside (in mono). I can use it for coding, reading or writing outside. But I'm not sure if I would recommend this for Pandora. I don't want to play games in monochrome! Also, the contrast is a bit worse than a typical LCD, when using it indoors with the backlight. It might be good, I don't know...
It would be awesome to have a screen that works inside or outside in colour, and without a backlight, and at full video refresh rate (at least 30Hz, preferably 60Hz). I guess Mirosol is the closest thing at this stage, but it's expensive and I think not quite good enough to replace LCD in a small computer. There's also a "Plastic Logic" screen, I think it is like Pixel Qi with a colour overlay. That has low resolution of 640x480 at A4 size.
I want to add, usability outdoors and without a backlight is MUCH more important to me than raw resolution. I would much prefer an 800x480 screen which works nicely without the backlight, compared to a 1920x1080 screen which requires the eye-scorching backlight and will be very dull outdoors in the day-time. Also if we could manage to avoid the backlight, battery life will go through the roof. So I guess although Pixel-Qi is not perfect, I would prefer PixelQi compared to a normal LCD screen.
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To be honest, it's too early yet to tell if a 1080p screen would make sense or not.
In my opinion the most important thing of any device is to find the components that suit best.
Every part has advantages and disadvantages.
Let's see the 1080p screen:
If it
In my opinion the most important thing of any device is to find the components that suit best.
Every part has advantages and disadvantages.
Let's see the 1080p screen:
If it
If it works fine with lower resolutions, doesn't need a lot more power and the CPU/GPU doesn't need more ressources as well, then why should I be against that screen?
However, if it costs 100 EUR more than a 720p one, would it be worth it?
What would a 1080p screen be useful for?
Not for the desktop mode or Android in my opinion. With 720p, you will be able to make the text so small it's barely readable anymore.
Androids button size is not fixed to a resolution but to a %age of the screen, so no advantage here as well.
Movies would look a bit better as well as pictures.
But if it needs 10% more battery (just an assumption) and costs 100 EUR more (also an assumption), would that be worth it?
For a movieplayer sure, but for a general device like the Pandora?
The advantages of a 720p screen might be more for the Pandora use-case, but this needs to be checked.
There's no use sacrificing a lot of battery time and additional money just to have a high-res screen most probably won't really need, but it wouldn't make sense as well declining a 1080p screen if the power usage as well as the price would be the same or just a little more than for a 720p screen.
It's too early to make a decision here without having compared all this, but my guess still is that the 720p screen would make more sense.
It's the same for every other component as well:
We could include 6 speakers for mobile 5.1 sound. The difference would probably between Stereo sound and 5.1 would probably be stronger than between 720p and 1080p on 5"... would it make sense though?
Not for the Pandora, but probably for a mobile movie player.
We need to find the best solutions for the typical Pandora use-cases, not just blindly take the highest specs of everything.
At least that's my opinion.
However, if it costs 100 EUR more than a 720p one, would it be worth it?
What would a 1080p screen be useful for?
Not for the desktop mode or Android in my opinion. With 720p, you will be able to make the text so small it's barely readable anymore.
Androids button size is not fixed to a resolution but to a %age of the screen, so no advantage here as well.
Movies would look a bit better as well as pictures.
But if it needs 10% more battery (just an assumption) and costs 100 EUR more (also an assumption), would that be worth it?
For a movieplayer sure, but for a general device like the Pandora?
The advantages of a 720p screen might be more for the Pandora use-case, but this needs to be checked.
There's no use sacrificing a lot of battery time and additional money just to have a high-res screen most probably won't really need, but it wouldn't make sense as well declining a 1080p screen if the power usage as well as the price would be the same or just a little more than for a 720p screen.
It's too early to make a decision here without having compared all this, but my guess still is that the 720p screen would make more sense.
It's the same for every other component as well:
We could include 6 speakers for mobile 5.1 sound. The difference would probably between Stereo sound and 5.1 would probably be stronger than between 720p and 1080p on 5"... would it make sense though?
Not for the Pandora, but probably for a mobile movie player.
We need to find the best solutions for the typical Pandora use-cases, not just blindly take the highest specs of everything.
At least that's my opinion.
I completely agree with DREDD's and ED's posts above. Something that can avoid the backlight (but still has an optional backlight in case you want to use it in the dark / low light conditions) would be absolutely great. I'm willing to pay extra for that, quite a lot actually. It could improve both daylight visibility and battery life - in idle mode (web browsing, coding, office stuff etc), the backlight is responsible for a really big chunk of the power consumption, so if you can eliminate that, the gain is huge.
I'm not willing to pay extra (unless it's just a tiny bit) for 1080p over 720p/800p. And I wouldn't even want 1080p if it was cheaper if it means a significant increase in power consumption.
It's all a trade-off between lots of variables. Resolution was important when the choice was between 320x240 or something like that and 800x480. Today resolution is not the main issue anymore - it's the other variables that matter more now. We need a good trade-off between refresh rate, daylight visibility, contrast, colors, power consumption, resolution, price, and availability (don't depend on obscure one-off suppliers).
Ideally the OPT should at some point do their research and present the community some options they're considering, so we can help to make that trade-off. We can dream all we want about the ideal screen, but in the end, there will not be that many options available (in quantities of thousands, not hundreds of thousands).
I'm not willing to pay extra (unless it's just a tiny bit) for 1080p over 720p/800p. And I wouldn't even want 1080p if it was cheaper if it means a significant increase in power consumption.
It's all a trade-off between lots of variables. Resolution was important when the choice was between 320x240 or something like that and 800x480. Today resolution is not the main issue anymore - it's the other variables that matter more now. We need a good trade-off between refresh rate, daylight visibility, contrast, colors, power consumption, resolution, price, and availability (don't depend on obscure one-off suppliers).
Ideally the OPT should at some point do their research and present the community some options they're considering, so we can help to make that trade-off. We can dream all we want about the ideal screen, but in the end, there will not be that many options available (in quantities of thousands, not hundreds of thousands).
konqithedragon
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regarding the speakers comment..
a 3.0 speaker set up might make some sense... having a Left/Centre/Right speaker would be different.... but not sure how noticeable it would be.. Also I doubt most games would utilise it.. but it would be different...
a 3.0 speaker set up might make some sense... having a Left/Centre/Right speaker would be different.... but not sure how noticeable it would be.. Also I doubt most games would utilise it.. but it would be different...
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Stereo is fine. You have only 2 ears.
fusion_power
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Because it was developed for the "100$ Laptop", the PixelQi Displays actualy should be pretty cheap. That was the reason they were used in the OLPC Project. ^^
5" Outdoor proof PixelQi would be also my Display of choise. We should not give up on it imho. The PixelQi Displays hava a very high res (in b/w mode) so it should please everyone. It really would be an very advertisable feature to have an Handheld with a PIxelQi Display.
Just imagine the endless Battery times in B/w mode. And you can play Gameboy Games in original "Colours".
Yes, 5" PixelQi would be awesome - they now even have screens that are still color with the backlight off.
This would be a real killer feature of the P2 - even if the resolution would be only 1024x600 or so. Hell, I would even be happy with 800x480. Imagine 50h battery life for outdoors use, with perfect visibility even in direct sunlight. It could be possible.
This would be a real killer feature of the P2 - even if the resolution would be only 1024x600 or so. Hell, I would even be happy with 800x480. Imagine 50h battery life for outdoors use, with perfect visibility even in direct sunlight. It could be possible.
Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
For what it's worth, like everyone else here, I'm not the least bit against a 1080p screen that's not much more expensive, doesn't use much more power, and otherwise has as good or better performance as the next best 720p screen. What I'm concerned about is this attitude where Craig says the Pandora 2 will be a "joke" if it doesn't have it, because it'll be the standard set by all phones and things like that.
Things that should influence the P2's design:
Things that should have less bearing on the P2
-
EDs posts give me newfound faith in the awesomeness of the P2
He's probably got more sanity than anyone else on these forums.
- What the community wants
- What would be useful/of practical value
Things that should have less bearing on the P2
- What smartphone manufacturers do
- Datasheet specs
-
EDs posts give me newfound faith in the awesomeness of the P2
He's probably got more sanity than anyone else on these forums.
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Grench
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Please copy and paste that, in 120pt font, into the P2 developer section that you, Craig and Michael are in? It feels a bit like the first half of that is getting lost - the part about the typical Pandora use-cases.
bismuthdrummer
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Ah, a voice of balanced reason.
sswam
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WTF mobile 5.1 sound, 6 speakers on a handheld??!! 5.1 line out I can go for that, but 6 speakers on the device that is just crazy talk.
Hell yes, colour with no backlight that is fully awesome. I would prefer 800x480 like that compared to 1080p normal LCD. Others may disagree, however.
NO! I WANT HIGHEST SPECS!!!!!!!1 GIVE ME TOMORROWS HARDWARE TODAY! WITH 6 SPEAKERS TWO FPGA CO-PROCESSOR AND AN AMD PLUS DUEL 1080p PIXEL QI COLOUR 3D SCREENZ NOW. OK, 2 months.
FRZ
Active Member
Sharp is my hero. I know this screen may be too big for the p2 but, I just felt like sharing the news anyway.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/17/sharp-aquos-pad-sht21-igzo-lcd/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews
Send from my ZTE Warp
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/17/sharp-aquos-pad-sht21-igzo-lcd/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews
Send from my ZTE Warp
Grench
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Actually the phone version that the tablet article you linked to in turn links to is a 4.9" version of the same display and within the right size, resolution and engergy parameters:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/11/sharp-aquos-phone-zeta-igzo-display/
0.1" shy of 5" and 1280x720 (720p?) with 'low' energy consumption (low is not defined well.)
