Your Holy gaming Grail for Pandora 2..?

[SNESFAN]

ANDROID,


The Polish and such you are talking about, I call Boring and Restrictive.


It's my opinion, but most likely shared with a bit of the community here.

being able to modify everything about this polish makes it restrictive and boring?

 

[TrashyMG]

ANDROID,


The Polish and such you are talking about, I call Boring and Restrictive.


It's my opinion, but most likely shared with a bit of the community here.

being able to modify everything about this polish makes it restrictive and boring?

Yep


EDIT: Honestly, I just said that to disagree.. I don't even know what you mean by that statement.. Android is a locked down OS, with limited built-on tools.. I don't see how you can see it as not restrictive.

 

[WizardStan]

But I don't understand your opinion on this. You want Android, that's great, I get it. What benefit do you see exclusivity or even singularly primary support adding?

It will add polish and standardization to a chaotic and rough around the edges platform. If you clean up the interface, make everything streamline, flow and transition from program to program the way other mobile os's do it, standardize button mappings in apps/games os etc.... Make it more touch friendly then you'll have my vote as it being good choice for primary OS. If you could throw webOS card interface, android launcher, iphone springboard, or meego's whatever it's called... throw an interface optimized for a handheld on it... that's what it's missing... and no minimenu while nice... is not enough. Power optimization is a big one for me... I know it sounds petty, but instant on... such a minor feature to a lot... having the ability to flick on your device in an instant and know it can last all day... that's another main issue.

Right, I got all that, but why to the point that OPT should support it primarily and exclusively and leave Linux as the second class that must be community installed? That's the part I'm not understanding. Why can't we have our cake and eat it too?

 

[vcoleiro1]

It would be great to have both (as you can do now but with a rough Android port). I think it would be needed to support P1 apps. ie a dual boot with P1 linux and also Android would be ideal.

 

[vcoleiro1]

@Craigix


It seems to me that you guys have some clear ideas on the P2. How about sharing them all with the community. It seems we are getting bits and pieces but I suspect from your comments and Mwestons comments that you at least have a very rough idea on what the P2 wll be. Spill the beans , lets hear what the ideas are at this stage.

 

[Prometheus]

@craig's comments - I see what you're saying... others may not... but you are definitely doing the right thing...I'd like android cause it's not closed off... but whatever it actually ends up being... you do need something professional and complete to show off and market your device... something that just works. Nothing that feels hacked together or incomplete. Something people can recognize.

Everyone sees and understands what Craig is saying. Everyone agrees that it is a good idea to have Android as an option or a dual-boot. It's been that way for years.


However, I must admit that I do find it funny to see Android described as "professional" and as something that doesn't "feel hacked together or incomplete" - I mean, Android seems pretty unstable, and has the most inconsistent interfaces I've ever come across! The only thing consistent about them is the levels of "wow-ee it's a shiny graphical button" and cryptic obfuscation*.


*Honest question to everyone here: What would you put on a button for accessing spam e-mail?


I'll no doubt be shouted down as a heathen for stating my factual experience of it, but I would have appreciated someone pointing these things out to me before I wasted money on giving Android a shot. Seems the only info out there is lovey-dovey gushing, with no acknowledgement whatsoever of its issues. Decreasing though some of them may be, some of the biggest ones are only increasing, what with Google bringing their inconsistent, cryptic big-shiny-buttons-that-make-no-sense-with-some-that-are-completely-different-for-no-reason interfaces to their web-apps now, too.

 

[SNESFAN]

Yep

EDIT: Honestly, I just said that to disagree.. I don't even know what you mean by that statement.. Android is a locked down OS, with limited built-on tools.. I don't see how you can see it as not restrictive.

android (aosp) is all open source, nothing is closed... you can modify every single bit of the OS if you wanted to... there is no restrictions... the source is the guideline most follow, and if you want to ensure compatibility I'd suggest using that guideline... but you could theoretically change it completely and make your own branch of android if you wanted to. If you had the skill to merge it back with the monolithic linux kernel you could if you really had the desire. It's as open as linux is... but apps from one distro might not work with another.

Right, I got all that, but why to the point that OPT should support it primarily and exclusively and leave Linux as the second class that must be community installed? That's the part I'm not understanding. Why can't we have our cake and eat it too?

as I said originally, those who have the want for android seem to not have the skill to do so... those who want linux have already proven they have the skill to handle it on their own.


official primary OS as a means for the "common user" to get the mainstream support they would need cause "the community" isn't doing that.


Support both fine... doesn't matter... but I've heard the arguement before that "there isn't enough good developers to maintain both" So putting the stamp of offically supported OS means they will get the support the community isn't giving to the more mainstream croud

However, I must admit that I do find it funny to see Android described as "professional" and as something that doesn't "feel hacked together or incomplete" - I mean, Android seems pretty unstable, and has the most inconsistent interfaces I've ever come across! The only thing consistent about them is the levels of "wow-ee it's a shiny graphical button" and cryptic obfuscation (honest question to everyone here: What would you put on a button for accessing spam e-mail?).

stability and consistency compared to the what's on the pandora now... that's very funny


EDIT: also you used a hacked together version of android for your comparison (honeycomb not FOSS) I just remembered... not a fair comparison of the os as a whole. Try something on a phone or something and let me know what you think.

 

[TrashyMG]

It would be great to have both. I think it would be needed to support P1 apps. ie a dual boot with P1 linux and also Android would be ideal.

Personally I don't like Android, it has too much overhead and limiting in many ways, but hey it's OPEN Pandora for a reason.. AND there is nothing that says you need to run Angstrom.. there is a Android SD card install image floating around if you want to dabble with it on the current Pandora.. Try Debian sure we have that.. Slackware we have that too.


This is the thing, unless a team of Android enthusiasts decides to get together and put a TON of effort toward it, It's not going to be as good of an experience as Angstrom.

 

[DaMummy]

is it just me, or was anybody else kind of hoping that when Craigix handed OpenPandora to EvilDragon, it would kind of carry over to OP² and craig wouldnt be involved in the blueprints of it? ive no problem with craig releasing a android device, a Craiginator if you like, but i would rather have ED take over on the OP² part......MWeston can stay though....i like my pandora sounds

 

[Prometheus]

as I said originally, those who have the want for android seem to not have the skill to do so... those who want linux have already proven they have the skill to handle it on their own.

Nonsense! Have you seriously polled every single member on that? Because you missed me out.


I would have no idea where to start with compiling an OS and getting it up and running with the hardware I want to use. On devices like this, my understanding is that it's not quite the same as the just-works that you get out of Linux on x86 hardware.

official primary OS as a means for the "common user" to get the mainstream support they would need cause "the community" isn't doing that.


Support both fine... doesn't matter... but I've heard the arguement before that "there isn't enough good developers to maintain both" So putting the stamp of offically supported OS means they will get the support the community isn't giving to the more mainstream croud

... Did you really just say we aren't helping people? All these years of going out of our way to assist even some of the most cryptic and rude requests for help don't count, now? Please tell me I've misunderstood what's meant!

 

[SNESFAN]

as I said originally, those who have the want for android seem to not have the skill to do so... those who want linux have already proven they have the skill to handle it on their own.

Nonsense! Have you seriously polled every single member on that? Because you missed me out.


I would have no idea where to start with compiling an OS and getting it up and running with the hardware I want to use. On devices like this, my understanding is that it's not quite the same as the just-works that you get out of Linux on x86 hardware.

official primary OS as a means for the "common user" to get the mainstream support they would need cause "the community" isn't doing that.


Support both fine... doesn't matter... but I've heard the arguement before that "there isn't enough good developers to maintain both" So putting the stamp of offically supported OS means they will get the support the community isn't giving to the more mainstream croud

... Did you really just say we aren't helping people? All these years of going out of our way to assist even some of the most cryptic and rude requests for help don't count, now? Please tell me I've misunderstood what's meant!

missquotes...


community as a whole isn't supporting android os


comminity as a whole is able to support linux


you're helping users, not supporting (contributing) to the os and its fixes


EDIT: and you responded to something I wasn't directing toward you

 

[WizardStan]

Support both fine... doesn't matter... but I've heard the arguement before that "there isn't enough good developers to maintain both" So putting the stamp of offically supported OS means they will get the support the community isn't giving to the more mainstream croud

It isn't that there aren't enough good developers to maintain both, it's that there aren't enough developers with the motivation to maintain both. If Craig wants Android on the P2 at all he's going to need to do exactly the same thing that would be required for the P1: either do some of the grunt work himself or provide some motivation to those skilled devs, most likely in the form of monetary compensation, because I have doubts that any of the people working on the current Linux OS are going to do so nearly as freely when it comes to Android.


But that's neither here nor there; assuming we can get the devs interested we can arrange things however you like: make Android primary and Linux just an easily installed tar ball; vice versa; dual boot; give the user a choice at time of purchase; so many different options.


Craig said he has zero interest in supporting Linux at all, and you are encouraging him in this, and then you say that supporting both is fine. These are mutually exclusive things: either you believe Craig is making the right decision in officially dropping Linux support, even going so far as to consider make it incompatible with the existing Pandora without input from the community; or you believe that it isn't unreasonable to support both Linux and Android.

 

[craigix]

@Craigix


It seems to me that you guys have some clear ideas on the P2. How about sharing them all with the community. It seems we are getting bits and pieces but I suspect from your comments and Mwestons comments that you at least have a very rough idea on what the P2 wll be. Spill the beans , lets hear what the ideas are at this stage.

There really is no firm set of plans.


We have to get our other product out there first to pay the bills.

 

[Prometheus]

missquotes...


community as a whole isn't supporting android os


comminity as a whole is able to support linux


you're helping users, not supporting (contributing) to the os and its fixes

Ahh, ok. My apologies!


I wasn't sure if you meant software-wise or not - I've never seen anyone suggest that before, whilst I've seen it claimed that we aren't helping users (which is inaccurate :lol: ).

 

[craigix]

Support both fine... doesn't matter... but I've heard the arguement before that "there isn't enough good developers to maintain both" So putting the stamp of offically supported OS means they will get the support the community isn't giving to the more mainstream croud

It isn't that there aren't enough good developers to maintain both, it's that there aren't enough developers with the motivation to maintain both. If Craig wants Android on the P2 at all he's going to need to do exactly the same thing that would be required for the P1: either do some of the grunt work himself or provide some motivation to those skilled devs, most likely in the form of monetary compensation, because I have doubts that any of the people working on the current Linux OS are going to do so nearly as freely when it comes to Android.


But that's neither here nor there; assuming we can get the devs interested we can arrange things however you like: make Android primary and Linux just an easily installed tar ball; vice versa; dual boot; give the user a choice at time of purchase; so many different options.


Craig said he has zero interest in supporting Linux at all, and you are encouraging him in this, and then you say that supporting both is fine. These are mutually exclusive things: either you believe Craig is making the right decision in officially dropping Linux support, even going so far as to consider make it incompatible with the existing Pandora without input from the community; or you believe that it isn't unreasonable to support both Linux and Android.

I've not said anything of the sort, I've just given you a realistic summary of facts.


I can't just snap my fingers and magic a Linux build out of thin air, perhaps you don't comprehend the complexities involved. Even in its current state it's amazing the Pandora OS is as good as it is - and that has taken 4 years.


I'm just saying I can't see it going that well again, especially with the next generation of SoCs being built towards Android.


There is an app for Android in the works right now like Blutrol for iOS which allows you to map the screen presses to the keyboard/gamepad, that would be my first suggestion in getting the games working.


I'd also like to take a bet that a Dreamcast/A1200/Pentium emulator will show up working well on Android even before the P2 is released.

 

[WizardStan]

I've not said anything of the sort, I've just given you a realistic summary of facts.

You have implied several times that Android is the only way to go, and that anything else that lands on it will be incidental, and that whatever happens it will be your choice with no input from members who may be extremely knowledgeable about such things.


Exophase has also presented a serious case as to why your facts are wrong, specifically regarding your assertion that NEON will be difficult to support.


Your quick statements and dismissals of genuine concerns are scary notions for the future of the community, is what I'm saying.

 

[SNESFAN]

It isn't that there aren't enough good developers to maintain both, it's that there aren't enough developers with the motivation to maintain both. If Craig wants Android on the P2 at all he's going to need to do exactly the same thing that would be required for the P1: either do some of the grunt work himself or provide some motivation to those skilled devs, most likely in the form of monetary compensation, because I have doubts that any of the people working on the current Linux OS are going to do so nearly as freely when it comes to Android.


But that's neither here nor there; assuming we can get the devs interested we can arrange things however you like: make Android primary and Linux just an easily installed tar ball; vice versa; dual boot; give the user a choice at time of purchase; so many different options.


Craig said he has zero interest in supporting Linux at all, and you are encouraging him in this, and then you say that supporting both is fine. These are mutually exclusive things: either you believe Craig is making the right decision in officially dropping Linux support, even going so far as to consider make it incompatible with the existing Pandora without input from the community; or you believe that it isn't unreasonable to support both Linux and Android.

If the motivation is there for both then fine... I am not saying lock it down to android... but I agree with criag that android should be the upmost priority. also like craig.. (EDIT: guess not ^^) I don't have any interest in a vanillia linux OS. the point keeps dodging or I'm not making myself clear or something... android should be the main focus... because it's more mainstream and aside from a few in this crowd it is more polished... and if he chooses a chipset from a manufactuer that basically hands you a completed image... all you have to do is write propritary bits on there for your keyboard or analog nubs, or whatever is left and boom... It's how companies like JXD and YINLIPS do and it's successful for them... most of ground work is done for you... Not much R&D in the OS area. Something stable to fall back on etc.


if a solid port of linux is there from the community I don't see there being an issue with it being bundled or whatever... but useing it as your main selling point... that's where the issue lies I think... you may see it the exact opposite... but these aren't exactly flying off the shelf.

 

[vcoleiro1]

@Craigix


2 Months ago I had an idea of developing something that could map touch controls to real controls, now I see from your comment above that this exists for IOS and is being developed for Android. I feel totally deflated, I thought I had an original and great idea only to be beaten to the punch. Going away now to buy some alcohol - lol.


One day I'll come up with a unique idea. One day.

 

[SNESFAN]

@Craigix


2 Months ago I had an idea of developing something that could map touch controls to real controls, now I see from your comment above that this exists for IOS and is being developed for Android. I feel totally deflated, I thought I had an original and great idea only to be beaten to the punch. Going away now to buy some alcohol - lol.


One day I'll come up with a unique idea. One day.

sixaxis already does this on android for the ps3 controller... lol drink one for me!

 

[WizardStan]

but these aren't exactly flying off the shelf.

Yes they did. They've been doing there best impression of flying for 4 years, at any rate. Even with no product there's quite a line of users investing and pre-ordering still, paying e-bay premiums even. The only thing holding them back is production, and I can only imagine the blowback they'd be getting right now if it were an Android device. With the Yinlips out, they'd be requesting their money back in droves.