Xgp Homepage Open

[Cyclops]

I think everyone seems to have forgotten that most 3D chips can also do 2D acceleration. Perhaps the XGP's chip can too. Until we find out otherwise, we shouldn't assume it can't. We simply don't have enough info yet.

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I don't think anyone has forgotton it, but if you look at most benchmarking tests of graphics cards. A cheap 2D is as good as a expensive 3D for 2D acceleration, often better. Good examples are onboard graphics cards benched against super-ninja graphics cards. The 2D in question has some pretty nifty features when it comes to 2D and had 4 co-processers for this. Its fairly safe to assume most people will value its 2D features more than its 3D ones( in movies/games/emulation), judging the usage by people who use a GP32 want GP32 functionality. Thats not to say 3D isn't important, its potentially more expensive, potentially weaker than that of competing products, and potentially not as easy for homebrew developers. I say potentially only becauase XGP is as yet vaporware. People are trying to slip extra cores and allsorts onto this to make it a more viable option, although really if it is all singing, all dancing you would think they would have mentioned it in BIG LETTERS. If you're expecting ports from linux, with DOOM3 like quality you'll likely to be dissapointed, really this potentially leaves 3D demos. In a choice between Good 2D and Poor 3D, I would choose the former in this instance. I think everyone would be happy with 3D on the GPnextgen, but everyone wants it at zero cost in terms of price and current functionality, or better than that of competing products for less.

 

[Cyclops]

The reality is PSP is a better XGP, but a GPX2 is a better GP32 from known current specifications

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I have written that XGP is better than GPX2 and you started moaning. You have witten the same thing about PSP and XGP. Don't you think that talking about better for at this moment is really, absolutely fruitless since no one has announced the software about the consoles. And my final question is to everyone will Ninja h34r: come out or they have stopped working on it because three similar handhelds can not exist for long?

That's my Top 5
1.GP32 BLU+ (brighter screen than any other GP32)
2.XGP (has a lot of potential if Gamepark uses it correctly)
3.Gameboy Micro packed with Play-Yan Multimedia player (a killer design and good commercial support for which I do care because I love buying games that worth the money you spent on them)
5.GPX2 (will follow and improve the GP32 way but I am afraid that it will not improve that much as we expected. Look at DaveC's posts)

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Sorry I was trying to put it in your english, I'm absolutely certain that that doesn't distract from the point I tried to make. Please put the know specifications for the PSP next to that of he know specifications of the XGP, pick a word. do same for GP32 and GPX2. If you struggle get a trained monkey to do it. What I'm saying is that are different tools(fuck I'm lost for vocabulary).

Look the difference between XGP and a GPX2 is one is a console(PS1) and the other is a commodity PC running linux (literally in this instance).

I see software Jesus you really have missed the point. This is not like comparing the PS2 to the X-box. I would imagine, its fairly safe to assume. That a obscure korean company, which failed to garner support for its first handheld. will stuggle getting many (if any) commercial games, and even if it does this, it is unlikely(of course I will have to wait and see lol), that is will have a software library to compete with that of Sony and Nintendo.

Now the GPX2 is really competing on its own(GP32's, Second Hand Zodiac's) a niche market, apart from its MM abilities(Pitting it against Apple,Archos) but those for most here are bonuses. From day one the potential is Games Apps Emulation are little to no effort to use from day one. Without one single Dev from GP32 scene involved, but in reality I suspect it will attract more, and be easy for less competant users to have there own little slice of fame.

I understand where you are coming from but, only understand the basic numbers, and cannot look beyond to the potential of nextgen see DaveC posts.

Give it a NAME.

 

[Rob]

Can't you understand that XGP competing with PSP is a silly rumour if you can't get a trained monkey to explain it. I am almost certain that probably Gamepark are making these rumours and have chosen their specs of the XGP based on the rumour they are making just to imress the GP32 fans. If they make it open source as I think they will screw themselves but I don't care everyone chooses his own way. And by the way let's not argue it is silly. We don't want the community divided in two groups XGP or GPX2, right?

 

[Cyclops]

Can't you understand that XGP competing with PSP is a silly rumour if you can't get a trained monkey to explain it. I am almost certain that probably Gamepark are making these rumours and have chosen their specs of the XGP based on the rumour they are making just to imress the GP32 fans. If they make it open source as I think they will screw themselves but I don't care everyone chooses his own way. And by the way let's not argue it is silly. We don't want the community divided in two groups XGP or GPX2, right?

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3D,widecreen,handheld,commercial,calling itself eXtreme game player. My monkey 5 years at University, with Masters in both IT and Fine Art, it also at a loss to my parallels with the PSP. Is open source the answer or a answer, a just don't know. It is at least part of an answer. The alternatives risk serious lack of support in terms of quality or quantity of software, and all signs point to commercial software being pretty thin on the ground. Also you may be aware that software that is already on the GP32 Mame being a good example. Without open-source the community leaves itself vunerable, and isolated, and things like a divided community become a concern.

I note your concern about the split in the community(although I do think you mean developers), although I do think in reality it is already a split, between mobile phones/PSP Homebrew/Pocket PC etc etc. People will develop for what they want to, which is the most attractive

 

[Rob]

Yes, but my monkey concerns mostly about if both systems are open source then the CURRENT developers for GP32 homebrew scene may split up and they are a little but very good. Yes and I also think that Gamepark depending on commercial support is silly. I know that we love most of the few commercial games but they just sound silly Tomak Save The Earth Again, Astonisha Story R, Her Knights All For The Princess. I will choose the XGP if it is open source because it will probably have a few normal titles like Space Invaders 3D and even if it is not that good for homebrew there will be any (if open source) and there will be any balance between normal (very worse than the PSP or DS but may be close to Gizmondo) commercial support and a homebrew scene making first steps in 3D if not for 3D games but for 3D emus so I am happy that we stopped arguing for dumb things. Everybodu picks its own handheld and scene. It's so simple.
EDIT: There will be split in the users too but it is essential since two mhandhelds are being made.

 

[DaveC]

We will all go where the scene goes. If all of the emu devs are going to the GPx2 and not the XGP then that is where the scene is. I am concerned that it will split too. Hopefully a clear winner will emerge and coders will all support it.

3D? Bah! if you want 3D play a PSP or an Xbox. The GPx2 WILL be the better emu/2D system based on its screen etc.

The XGP is like a poor man's PSP. If you want commercial and 3D games get a PSP, it is out now. It has a HB scene too, just get a 1.5 FW or less version.

 

[x68000]

there will be no split as no one will buy the xgp.

why would they? the xgp will cost roughly the same as the psp, which is more powerful, has a larger screen, has huge amounts of support both commercially and homebrew. So who will buy the xgp outside of korea?

if any console will be able to emulate better than the new gpx2, it will be the psp but because of it's much discussed limitations, the gpx2 will become the emu fans favourite, leaving the xgp somewhere in the middle, in videogame pergatory.

 

[Rob]

Gamepark have always been taking some weird decisions but a lucky coincidences
protect them like the open source of their handheld because of a side effect from using the SMC. If nothing like that happens they are lost. I don't mean if it is not open source but if something that meets the deamnds of the customers like the open source doesn't happen.

 

[Cyclops]

Yes, but my monkey concerns mostly about if both systems are open source then the CURRENT developers for GP32 homebrew scene may split up and they are a little but very good. Yes and I also think that Gamepark depending on commercial support is silly. I know that we love most of the few commercial games but they just sound silly Tomak Save The Earth Again, Astonisha Story R, Her Knights All For The Princess. I will choose the XGP if it is open source because it will probably have a few normal titles like Space Invaders 3D and even if it is not that good for homebrew there will be any (if open source) and there will be any balance between normal (very worse than the PSP or DS but may be close to Gizmondo) commercial support and a homebrew scene making first steps in 3D if not for 3D games but for 3D emus so I am happy that we stopped arguing for dumb things. Everybodu picks its own handheld and scene. It's so simple.
EDIT: There will be split in the users too but it is essential since two mhandhelds are being made.

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My concern is not the current developers, nice that is to have them. They don't belong to the "GP32 community", I do hope they take an interest in the new handhelds, but I was hoping esp with the interest shown from the slashdot community. That other developers would be attracted. Especially with its excellent large mini game community that linux has, most of which would look really nice on a little handheld, and more importantly give people who have an interest in programming, an easy, and attractive way of doing so(like a spectrum). With a "look what I did" on a little handheld you can pass around. A break for a core elite working at a low level. To untalented amaters making little games at a higher level. It was a little tricky on the GP32. I was hoping it would get a lot easier.

http://spaceinvadersgl.sourceforge.net/ has been over a year in development(ready after longhorn), and gives some indication of the power of the processer/3D capabilities needed. You can see that already there is not a lot a breathing space, and the time taken to complete such a project.

The Gizmondo looked a very capable machine on paper, and is I suspect better than it was made out to be, but its definately made a mess of things, and not for this topic, but I suspect is more powerful than the XGP is planning to be, and has more features.

3D emus are unlikely to happen, and are unlikely to be practical, with a handheld device(think about a modern controller).

You are confused about open-source, GNU-Linux is open-source and all it is, is that you can see/sometimes change the source. Many of the games/emulators on the GP32 that were not taken from open source in the first place have closed source . All the ports Wolf,Rott,Doom etc they are open source hence the ability to port the stuff. Its looking like both the XGP & GPX2 will both be closed or partially closed source, What they do give you is a SDK so you can create programs but little else. That Sucks. My GPNextgen just started to look more paperweight looking.

In reality if everything was open-source. To the user it wouldn't matter which was chosen it would still be one community one scence, and things that worked on one could work on the other(I know before anyone comments). Whats left is two incompatible devices. Some dev's here are as responsible for this as anyone else, but its their choice, look at the fuss over the mame source.

 

[Rob]

So Cyclops you think that if you want to go for a GP32 alike console GPX2 and if you want a lousy PSP alike console you must go for XGP. I don't know but don't be so sceptical about the two incompatible devices I am sure that one of them will be what we need. I think that you will go for GPX2 and I probably for XGP but it doesn't matter. And I DO understand that many emus that were written from scratch for GP32 have closed source but another ones like them will appear probably for both of the consoles and for XGP they will be a little worse with the resolution mainly but I like WarmFluffy idea if it is possible. If Space Invaders 3D is completed it will be awesome. Linux games ported to GPX2 and Open GL to XGP will be great.

 

[Cyclops]

GPH have now confirmed that they are using the MMSP2 chip over at Magiceyes. There is no public information about how to use the MMSP2, and my requests to get information on how to use the chip and the requests to join the developer forum at Magiceyes have all been denied.

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Ok I read your post in disbelief, Its 2:15 in the morning. I'm shocked and disappointed. I was hoping in October I could start looking at linux games, looking at what would work and needed work on a higher level. Rather than GP32 again trying to fit a square into a round hole.

In the short term its just rather nice media player, and Linux has become a marketing word. Rather than Mini-PC in my pocket.

Jesus I'm pissed off. I really wanted one, and it to be cool before it got old.

Have you asked what is available gpl/gnu wise or is it just vanilla stuff.

Linux
ARM Linux Kernel 2.4.25
GNU Tool source and binary for RedHat Linux
U-Boot 1.0
Device Driver
File & File system
Shell & Shell utility, System Utility
Application support software
Media Middelware(Video/ Audio codec)

 

[Alpha2]

Is it so bad having to use an official SDK? assuming it's free it might help avoid some problems for people wanting to code but not wanting to spend time digging up documentation. If you have to pay for it this would really hurt. But I have to think there has to be something other than the decision between game platform and media player that would cause a split between GP and GPH. I feel like there shold be some deeper differance of opinion or they'd just stay a single company and try releasing two handhelds.

They might be both open but one has to be more welcoming and since Craig seems to be on the inside on the GPX2 I have to assume that's the one that might have been built with our immediate best interests in mind. Prehaps there will be emulators built in to the system rather than forcing us to buy them separately, I know it'd make my choice about buying one a lot easier.

 

[Cyclops]

So Cyclops you think that if you want to go for a GP32 alike console GPX2 and if you want a lousy PSP alike console you must go for XGP. I don't know but don't be so sceptical about the two incompatible devices I am sure that one of them will be what we need. I think that you will go for GPX2 and I probably for XGP but it doesn't matter. And I DO understand that many emus that were written from scratch for GP32 have closed source but another ones like them will appear probably for both of the consoles and for XGP they will be a little worse with the resolution mainly but I like WarmFluffy idea if it is possible. If Space Invaders 3D is completed it will be awesome. Linux games ported to GPX2 and Open GL to XGP will be great.

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No. I compared the GPX2 to a Cheap Linux PC, and I was wrong. Gamepark Holdings is right its a media player. I should have compared it to a DVD Player

I'm not sceptical about them being incompatable. I'm certain of it. Regardless of purpose, which I have gone into at length. They have different SDK's, and chips, and screens, and god knows what else.

No! neither does what I want.

You make assumptions, about developing for both. I really if anything hope they don't and concentrate on making the best emu on that platform. Closed source will become an issue for you if Full Snes only apprears on GPX2. Its already an issue to those wanting backward compabilty with the GP32. Again I don't care if they do or don't. Its not what I want.

OpenGL ES is a subset of OpenGL (stuff missing). Doing any porting of anything has started to sound tricky, and then you have the propriatry SDK to deal with, And other showstoppers. Suddenly its time and effort, spent on a limited skill, on a limited platform, its a black art. I'm sure it will be fun for XGP homebrewer, not as much fun being a user.

 

[look]

We will all go where the scene goes. If all of the emu devs are going to the GPx2 and not the XGP then that is where the scene is. I am concerned that it will split too. Hopefully a clear winner will emerge and coders will all support it.

3D? Bah! if you want 3D play a PSP or an Xbox. The GPx2 WILL be the better emu/2D system based on its screen etc.

The XGP is like a poor man's PSP. If you want commercial and 3D games get a PSP, it is out now. It has a HB scene too, just get a 1.5 FW or less version.

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I'm 100% with davec on this XPG issue.

This scene's homebrew developers don't have the resources to create 3d games of any notable quality.

And the XGP doesnt have the hardware to run any 3dgames of notable quality.

Its like putting a powerful engine in a robin reliant.

The chasis cant handle it and noone would want to drive it. Unless they have a death wish.

 

[Cyclops]

We will all go where the scene goes. If all of the emu devs are going to the GPx2 and not the XGP then that is where the scene is. I am concerned that it will split too. Hopefully a clear winner will emerge and coders will all support it.

3D? Bah! if you want 3D play a PSP or an Xbox. The GPx2 WILL be the better emu/2D system based on its screen etc.

The XGP is like a poor man's PSP. If you want commercial and 3D games get a PSP, it is out now. It has a HB scene too, just get a 1.5 FW or less version.

​

I'm 100% with davec on this XPG issue.

This scene's homebrew developers don't have the resources to create 3d games of any notable quality.

And the XGP doesnt have the hardware to run any 3dgames of notable quality.

Its like putting a powerful engine in a robin reliant.

The chasis cant handle it and noone would want to drive it. Unless they have a death wish.

​

True maybe, but in reality Rob is right, he's just not right enough IMO. Would the world be better place, with a easy to develop for Powerful, 3D, Widescreen,Wi-Fi, with GP32 functionality absolutely. Is it a step in the right direction, for me without a doubt, but I don't think XGP is it. The PSP is not it ,but has popularity and the pure machine power to go further in that direction. This device needed to be lauched before the PSP. Released after, with the homebrew scence in place it has to be more of a device than it is.

Its worth noting that with korean digital-Tv it might already be enough for people there.

The GPX2 is IMO a major step up from the GP32, correcting many design mistakes while adding more oooph overall. This is just what I want, everything thats GP32 only better, in fact its what the GP32 should have been all along. I wouldn't be happy if there was nothing really innovative in the GPX3. Rob and others think its not innovative enough of an uprade now.

 

[Rob]

True maybe, but in reality Rob is right, he's just not right enough IMO. Would the world be better place, with a easy to develop for Powerful, 3D, Widescreen,Wi-Fi, with GP32 functionality absolutely. Is it a step in the right direction, for me without a doubt, but I don't think XGP is it. The PSP is not it ,but has popularity and the pure machine power to go further in that direction. This device needed to be lauched before the PSP. Released after, with the homebrew scence in place it has to be more of a device than it is.

Its worth noting that with korean digital-Tv it might already be enough for people there.

The GPX2 is IMO a major step up from the GP32, correcting many design mistakes while adding more oooph overall. This is just what I want, everything thats GP32 only better, in fact its what the GP32 should have been all along. I wouldn't be happy if there was nothing really innovative in the GPX3. Rob and others think its not innovative enough of an uprade now.

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GPX2 at least with the current specs is not that major step up. Everyone was dreaming about PS1, N64 and DC emulation. If the GPX2 can do that the device would make the same step GP32 did. Yeah, it would be more expensive but the price would have fallen. Do you remember that when they launched GP32 BLU the price was 199 Euros and a little more than an year later it is 110 Euros. In reality GPX2 would be able to emulate Amiga, Neo-Geo, and GBA with problems (like the current SNES emulator) it is a step forward but not as major as it should be.

 

[A600]

Everyone was dreaming about PS1, N64 and DC emulation.

Are you joking?

 

[Rob]

Are you joking?

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Nope, haven't you looked at the old GPX2 forums before we know the specs of the handheld and we obviously must forget it but at least a good SNES and Amiga emus can be done I think.

 

[Rockin'-B]

Why you people start bashing the XGP?

It is in my eyes absolutely clear that 3D is a must for new handheld systems, there is no way around it. Though it has been (I say, HAS been) very popular, emulation is NOT what a handheld videogame is all about, as it leaves all new features and improvements of the last years unused.

As you say homebrew devvers are not able to create good (3D) games, It's clear that we need commercial games!

What comes to my mind is that the amount of homebrew opensource games is limited and very much exausted.
This means you find ports of the same emus, the same games and the same stuff for a variety of videogame systems (GP32, DC, XBox).

 

[Rob]

Why you people start bashing the XGP?

It is in my eyes absolutely clear that 3D is a must for new handheld systems, there is no way around it. Though it has been (I say, HAS been) very popular, emulation is NOT what a handheld videogame is all about, as it leaves all new features and improvements of the last years unused.

As you say homebrew devvers are not able to create good (3D) games, It's clear that we need commercial games!

What comes to my mind is that the amount of homebrew opensource games is limited and very much exausted.
This means you find ports of the same emus, the same games and the same stuff for a variety of videogame systems (GP32, DC, XBox).

​

Most likely you are right about the emulators and I also prefer the XGP because of the 3D chip but will the XGP has decent commercial support? That's what we are wondering about. If so, I will be glad to buy it on the first day it comes out but if it is a lousy PSP clone I wouldn't bother with such a device.