Will Linux Ubuntu be preloaded?

[PoisonedV]

One thing that many people need to realize is that they don't really know what makes Ubuntu so popular. It is popular for the fact that it works well out of the box with all sorts of different systems, and includes many useful pieces of software. The interface is nothing more than a nice theme for Gnome - nothing we can't easily replicate.

The reason why devs and serious linux users don't think it totally worthwhile to port Ubuntu is the fact that it includes a LOT of features that we don't need on the Pandora due to the fact that every Pandora will have the same hardware. Sure, we can strip a lot of these features out of Ubuntu, but then you're just left with the Ubuntu interface and a bunch of applications. Many of these are also unnecessary (or many different of the same type of program is installed to give the user choices). We could strip a lot of these extra things out of Ubuntu, but then it's really no longer Ubuntu.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that we'd get much more out of giving people the option to run Gnome + the Ubuntu theme (Human is the name, right?) instead of really running Ubuntu on the device. Nobody would know the difference, really. That way we could just do a bit of optimization of Gnome (if possible?) and have a relatively efficient, Ubuntu-look WM/DE.

i promised myself I would never say this but,
QFT

also, i'd like to add that people say that having ubuntu ported is a good thing, but normal debian would work better, it would run the packages fine without the bloat.

 

[AireTamStorm]

I say keep the Pandora kernel and then give people the option to change the UI to what they want. Ubuntu is nothing more than a logo to stamp on the side of it at this point. I don't see the need to ship Ubuntu when you could just as easily (if not moreso) make the Pandora able to use stuff from the Ubuntu APT repository and change around the UI a little. Keep your blazing fast, optimized kernel and just trade out the fluff that runs on top of it.

 

[TaG]

I think that Pandora can be much more than a console or a quick tool, I think it could work well as a fully multi-tasking platform. Slow, yes, but its got enough speed and enough screen real estate to do it. I think it should be kept in mind that a "heavier" Linux (not as heavy as Ubuntu of course) certainly has a lot more use than attracting the "n00bs".

For example, I've used the original EEE. Same size screen as the Pandora. Yeah sometimes its great for this and that in Linux but the horrible icon-based interface completely destroys its usefulness, for me at least. I want to have a terminal open with a firefox window, and quickly switch between them with all the advantages of a serious window manager. So yeah, I don't think that every unit should come with a real Linux distro, it should be something simple and use gmenu, lightweight which makes the built in apps fly. But when considering the "popularity-contest alternative" like many people seem to think of any Ubuntu-like port, remember that a real, solid window manager actually comes in handy for at least some number of users.

Many agree that the Pandora is going to be a useful pocket computer. Don't forget the screen is not the same size as the EEE - it is the same resolution but it is 4.3 inches.

They've not actually said it will come with a 'full-blown' distro - but people keep asking for one, and Ubuntu grabs the headlines. Personally, I prefer to have a good optimised OS rather than a brand that gets headlines, but headlines could well equal sales. I also think it is difficult to strip loads of stuff out of Ubuntu and still call it anything like Ubuntu. On that line, OpenGEU was previously known as Geubuntu, which was Ubuntu with Enlightenment. AFAIK they had to change their name to take out the buntu as it was not an official project. So if we go down this route we need to consider that when choosing a name for it. Unless the devs get in touch with Mark Shuttleworth.

 

[Vorporeal]

In no way should Pandora ship with Ubuntu. What could be done is that at launch, a downloadable executable file that replaces the pre-loaded OS with Ubuntu could be available. You plug in the Pandora and run the program - done.

Much better. We'd much rather have it be able to run Ubuntu than ship with it. The ability is what is "important" - whether it comes with Ubuntu pre-loaded is not.

 

[Kyosys]

Ubuntu being preloaded might leave a bad impression due to slowness. We wouldn't want that. It'd be much easier to just offer it to download

 

[ljones]

Would it be possible or a good or bad idea maybe to look at slackware rather than ubuntu?

ljones

 

[mkinzler]

Ubuntu is very common and justs works ( as can seen )

 

[ab966126-f71c-4abc-98a3]

As long as it works, I really don't care.
PenDriveLinux will supply me with any of the operating systems I want.

 

[PoisonedV]

Ubuntu is very common and justs works ( as can seen )

Did you read the post above? It 'just works' cause it's loaded with drivers so previous NT users won't have any trouble. they can install it and it will usually work with very little configuration.

so tell me, what is the point of it on the pandora? like he said above, the pandora has all the same hardware. it will have like 15 hardware drivers built in. ubuntu is slower than debian.

 

[TaG]

Would it be possible or a good or bad idea maybe to look at slackware rather than ubuntu?

My take on this, is that the best, most usable linux will be custom, which is what we are supposed to be getting. Ubuntu is more for publicity, therefore it is the best distro for getting that publicity. Joe Public has heard of Ubuntu and is less scared of it. I don't think Joe Public really realises that Ubuntu is Linux, as he is scared of Linux. (What was Chips quote? Something about long division.) Slackware is something for enthusiasts to get running because they can, and because they want to. Not that I won't be interested in trying it when somebody does get it working...

As long as it works, I really don't care. PenDriveLinux will supply me with any of the operating systems I want.

Do they do any ARM distros? Also the kernel/drivers from something pre-packaged by pendrivelinux will not make all the hardware work as the are closed source blobs. It doesn't seem worth getting something prepackaged like that to then have to modify it.

Just my 2p.

 

[sHARD]

I think its safe to say then that everyone agrees. The default OS should be something simple that Just Works, and there should be an alternative offered by someone which offers a full range of features while not being a complete install of an OS as bloated as full Ubuntu (or Xubuntu for that matter). It's just a matter of choosing what that OS alternative install comes with (though if we use an OS with as large an ARM package base as Debian/Debian-based, etc, users could easily install *whichever* window manager, file manager, etc, that they choose).

I think the most important thing then in terms of user preferences is not what the defaults are but that instead it is hooked up to a great package tree which gives us a lot of opportunity to customize to our needs.

Some may wonder why I've pushed Ubuntu or Debian so hard when the default install is so terribly optimized for our needs on Pandora. Here's why: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2097004728.html

Unlike most Linux distro's ported or developed for ARM, its not limited by being designed for "internet devices", it's a full blown port of every package in Ubuntu. Why is this good? Because Nokia has a compile farm and keeps binaries for *every single package in Ubuntu that supports ARM*. If you note in the article, that's 25,000 packages and it takes *10 days* to compile on the massive ARM compile farm. They simply have far more resources for offering users great choice than we do. Utilizing Nokia's package tree would allow Pandora users to install *thousands and thousands* of different pieces of software, and they would all work from day one. Talk about a killer app, try 10,000 of them.

Which is why I think we should at least maintain a Debian-style distro; the ability to fire up apt and install from the massive tree of pre-built DEB packages would be fantastic. Just imagine being able to install many of your favorite Linux utilities on the day you get the device with no trouble at all. I think that would be great usefulness, great fun, and offer great publicity. The project gets massive recognition just for running Ubuntu and Firefox, imagine when it can run almost every popular Linux utility...

Oh, and letting people install Openbox when I want XFCE (which we could easily do then) would be great too

EDIT: Yes I know there's no ARM7 compile yet. It is my understanding (correct me if wrong) that the compiles for ARM6 should work just unoptimized. That's fine with me, core packages and the kernel working with ARM9 (they'd have to be customized and compiled by us anyway) with the other 24,000 packages left being a little slower is still a great combo. Better utilities running at 90% speed than no utilities at all. Nokia is considering it to support the OMAP 35xx series anyway.

 

[Charbax]

“pubuntu” (...) immune to poo jokes.

Nintendo Wii has had the same potential wee jokes, that hasn't harmed that project even the slightest bit.

In fact, I think the poo will make people smile and make the concept of the p&|a extra fun.

 

[ArchiMark]

I think its safe to say then that everyone agrees. The default OS should be something simple that Just Works, and there should be an alternative offered by someone which offers a full range of features while not being a complete install of an OS as bloated as full Ubuntu (or Xubuntu for that matter). It's just a matter of choosing what that OS alternative install comes with (though if we use an OS with as large an ARM package base as Debian/Debian-based, etc, users could easily install *whichever* window manager, file manager, etc, that they choose).

I think the most important thing then in terms of user preferences is not what the defaults are but that instead it is hooked up to a great package tree which gives us a lot of opportunity to customize to our needs.

Some may wonder why I've pushed Ubuntu or Debian so hard when the default install is so terribly optimized for our needs on Pandora. Here's why: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2097004728.html

Unlike most Linux distro's ported or developed for ARM, its not limited by being designed for "internet devices", it's a full blown port of every package in Ubuntu. Why is this good? Because Nokia has a compile farm and keeps binaries for *every single package in Ubuntu that supports ARM*. If you note in the article, that's 25,000 packages and it takes *10 days* to compile on the massive ARM compile farm. They simply have far more resources for offering users great choice than we do. Utilizing Nokia's package tree would allow Pandora users to install *thousands and thousands* of different pieces of software, and they would all work from day one. Talk about a killer app, try 10,000 of them.

Which is why I think we should at least maintain a Debian-style distro; the ability to fire up apt and install from the massive tree of pre-built DEB packages would be fantastic. Just imagine being able to install many of your favorite Linux utilities on the day you get the device with no trouble at all. I think that would be great usefulness, great fun, and offer great publicity. The project gets massive recognition just for running Ubuntu and Firefox, imagine when it can run almost every popular Linux utility...

Oh, and letting people install Openbox when I want XFCE (which we could easily do then) would be great too

EDIT: Yes I know there's no ARM7 compile yet. It is my understanding (correct me if wrong) that the compiles for ARM6 should work just unoptimized. That's fine with me, core packages and the kernel working with ARM9 (they'd have to be customized and compiled by us anyway) with the other 24,000 packages left being a little slower is still a great combo. Better utilities running at 90% speed than no utilities at all. Nokia is considering it to support the OMAP 35xx series anyway.

Amen, sHARD!

 

[cosam]

“pubuntu” (...) immune to poo jokes.

In fact, I think the poo will make people smile and make the concept of the p&|a extra fun.

Just make sure you have enough Pandrex around to clean up afterwards.

 

[bzar]

Panbuntu or Pabuntu (pah-buntu)

On another note, +1 for a custom distro. I like ubuntu and debian (using ubuntu 8.04 now, 8.10 beta yesterday and debian the day before that), but there's no need to have all that hardware support (except for usb or sdio devices) when the hardware is constant. Also I like to think Pandora as an embedded device, and as such default configuration should be as easy to use as possible. That means quick boot, clear gui and easy sw installs. You wouldn't get JoeSixpack to use an iPod with a general desktop gui. Things need to be simple by default, customizable by preference and changeable by design.

 

[notaz]

EDIT: Yes I know there's no ARM7 compile yet. It is my understanding (correct me if wrong) that the compiles for ARM6 should work just unoptimized.

It works just fine, you can see their ARMv5 compile running in my videos.