Blue Protoman
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2010
- Messages
- 4,117
We've all seen some uproar on these boards lately. Rather than repeat ourselves and get frustrated, from now on let's point people to this very thread should they have any questions that get asked repeatedly. This is not for usage of the Pandora itself (such as about PNDs, emulators, etc.), but of the backstory behind it and why things are the way they are (like why the hardware isn't nuclear-powered, why it's so expensive, etc.). This thread isn't complete as of initial writing, so please post your ideas for improvements, citations, new arguments or questions, etc. in this other thread. The more you help, the better this gets.
Also, could someone please pin this thread for all to see? Thanks.
Before I begin;
If you have any doubts or are in despair about recent happenings (such as boards shipped, RMA numbers, etc.), then please follow the Pandora Stalker, which reports everything that Craig, EvilDragon, and MWeston say via either these forums, GP32X, or their Twitter accounts. They don't hang out in IRC channels often, so no need to worry about that. Badgering everybody repeatedly will only piss them off. I'd also like to remind people that no other company is this transparent about its inner workings.
The below information comes initially from the top of my head. If I'm wrong, or there's a citation from a higher authority from this scene, more information, or something, please let me know here.
Now, let the information roll;
This list is not comprehensive; there's still much that could be added.
Hardware
Why isn't the processor the latest and greatest? My Android phone is more powerful!
The Pandora was initially designed in 2007 through 2008. Around that time, it was top-of-the-line. (More so when the NAND and RAM were doubled.) But as countless delays (practically all of which were out of OpenPandora's hands) surmounted, the Pandora fell behind the times. You can chalk that one up to technology's constant evolution. In addition, due to a good lot of behind-the-scenes workings, the Pandora is better able to make use of its hardware.
Sources: 1
So what about all these hardware flaws?
Mostly the faults of the companies that produce the parts. There are five or six different companies that manufacture the parts (that's not laziness, that's normal; even Apple outsources its iProducts to a Chinese company). The nubs (aka joysticks) were initially made by a company that folded (hence creating one of the first delays). Then the next try at the nubs was found to be defective, so they had to be remade (costing a lot of time and money). And quality control has greatly improved; people often come here to post issues (this is a support forum), so it only looks like there are a lot of problems. As for better quality? The new nubs were solved ages ago, the new LCD cables (which are no longer susceptible to the Purple Tint of Death) just started being used, and the new boards (with a revised design to improve reliability, though not adding features) are being made. As for the cases? Well, the manufacture of those wasn't in control by OpenPandora as much as they would've liked it to have been; paint was used when it wasn't supposed to be, and cheap plastic was used by the company. There has been discussion of another company for cases, but this isn't going to happen for a while.
Sources: Please contribute.
Software
How come it can't run Windows (or Windows games)?
The Pandora uses an ARM processor, and any computer that runs Windows uses an X86 processor. You'd be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. If it's open-source and doesn't rely on any X86 or Windows-exclusive stuff (like DirectX), then great! Otherwise, no can do.
Source: 1
Marketing/Sales/Backstory
How come it costs $500?
Various reasons. The Pandora is more expensive than some other hardware (such as the 3DS or certain phones) because most of these companies sell their devices at a loss (including Sony with the PSP) to reel in customers. Then they make up for these losses (and make profits) with game/app sales, developer fees, monthly service fees (like Xbox Live or phone contracts), and various other things. The companies that do this also sell other things not related to games or phones to make up for these losses. OpenPandora can't do this; they have no game developers or other services to pull money from (and as the Pandora promotes open development, they couldn't if they tried). They tried selling it at cost back when initial preorders were being taken, but this didn't work out, as Craig and EvilDragon were plunging further into debt. The extra money from Premiums has allowed for not only a bit more stability, but for more workers to be hired.
In addition, cramming three ports (USB, mini-USB, and EXT), two SD card slots, a QWERTY keypad, gaming controls (including nubs), Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, a touch screen, and a fairly powerful processor into a device the size of a Nintendo DS does not come cheaply.
Sources: Please contribute.
The Premiums are pushing my Batch 1 or Batch 2 order back!
Yes, that can't be helped. The only thing you can do is either be patient or upgrade to a Premium order to get your unit faster.
Sources: Please contribute.
I can't be patient! They're slower than dead cheetahs!
The bottleneck (aka, the one simple thing causing this big issue) is not manpower on OpenPandora's part. CircuitCo (the company making the boards) simply isn't producing boards fast enough. (They did promise 500 a week, but to be fair, we haven't heard their side of the story.) Switching to another company is not simple; the Pandora's board is very complex. Practically no other companies wanted to make such small amounts of it (to say nothing of the business end, which would be a pain in the ass). OpenPandora is just working with what CircuitCo is providing them. If you upgrade to Premium (all the boards must be paid for up-front, aka before they're made), then you'll help speed it up a bit, in theory. In practice, that remains to be seen. Also, there's been a small delay due to wi-fi issues as of late.
Sources: 1
I shouldn't have to pay more money for something I already paid for!
You're right. You shouldn't, and you don't. But if you couldn't, then the whole project would go bust, two great men would be eyes-deep in debt, and you'd never get your Pandora. The community that already surrounds it would collapse on itself, everything would stagnate, and you'd be stuck with an unchanging device (which, I might add, won't be able to be guarantee-ably serviced). And no one is making you pay more; you'll still get yours if you wait, and not have paid any more than you did for your initial order. Yes, it'll take much longer (another case of theory vs. practice) due to Premiums going out sooner, the shortage of boards, and the latest (as of this writing) hiccup of faulty wi-fi chips. But you're not being ripped off. Patience (or an extra $150, or thereabouts) is the only way out if you still want yours.
Sources: 1
Also, could someone please pin this thread for all to see? Thanks.
Before I begin;
If you have any doubts or are in despair about recent happenings (such as boards shipped, RMA numbers, etc.), then please follow the Pandora Stalker, which reports everything that Craig, EvilDragon, and MWeston say via either these forums, GP32X, or their Twitter accounts. They don't hang out in IRC channels often, so no need to worry about that. Badgering everybody repeatedly will only piss them off. I'd also like to remind people that no other company is this transparent about its inner workings.
The below information comes initially from the top of my head. If I'm wrong, or there's a citation from a higher authority from this scene, more information, or something, please let me know here.
Now, let the information roll;
This list is not comprehensive; there's still much that could be added.
Hardware
Why isn't the processor the latest and greatest? My Android phone is more powerful!
The Pandora was initially designed in 2007 through 2008. Around that time, it was top-of-the-line. (More so when the NAND and RAM were doubled.) But as countless delays (practically all of which were out of OpenPandora's hands) surmounted, the Pandora fell behind the times. You can chalk that one up to technology's constant evolution. In addition, due to a good lot of behind-the-scenes workings, the Pandora is better able to make use of its hardware.
Sources: 1
So what about all these hardware flaws?
Mostly the faults of the companies that produce the parts. There are five or six different companies that manufacture the parts (that's not laziness, that's normal; even Apple outsources its iProducts to a Chinese company). The nubs (aka joysticks) were initially made by a company that folded (hence creating one of the first delays). Then the next try at the nubs was found to be defective, so they had to be remade (costing a lot of time and money). And quality control has greatly improved; people often come here to post issues (this is a support forum), so it only looks like there are a lot of problems. As for better quality? The new nubs were solved ages ago, the new LCD cables (which are no longer susceptible to the Purple Tint of Death) just started being used, and the new boards (with a revised design to improve reliability, though not adding features) are being made. As for the cases? Well, the manufacture of those wasn't in control by OpenPandora as much as they would've liked it to have been; paint was used when it wasn't supposed to be, and cheap plastic was used by the company. There has been discussion of another company for cases, but this isn't going to happen for a while.
Sources: Please contribute.
Software
How come it can't run Windows (or Windows games)?
The Pandora uses an ARM processor, and any computer that runs Windows uses an X86 processor. You'd be trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. If it's open-source and doesn't rely on any X86 or Windows-exclusive stuff (like DirectX), then great! Otherwise, no can do.
Source: 1
Marketing/Sales/Backstory
How come it costs $500?
Various reasons. The Pandora is more expensive than some other hardware (such as the 3DS or certain phones) because most of these companies sell their devices at a loss (including Sony with the PSP) to reel in customers. Then they make up for these losses (and make profits) with game/app sales, developer fees, monthly service fees (like Xbox Live or phone contracts), and various other things. The companies that do this also sell other things not related to games or phones to make up for these losses. OpenPandora can't do this; they have no game developers or other services to pull money from (and as the Pandora promotes open development, they couldn't if they tried). They tried selling it at cost back when initial preorders were being taken, but this didn't work out, as Craig and EvilDragon were plunging further into debt. The extra money from Premiums has allowed for not only a bit more stability, but for more workers to be hired.
In addition, cramming three ports (USB, mini-USB, and EXT), two SD card slots, a QWERTY keypad, gaming controls (including nubs), Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, a touch screen, and a fairly powerful processor into a device the size of a Nintendo DS does not come cheaply.
Sources: Please contribute.
The Premiums are pushing my Batch 1 or Batch 2 order back!
Yes, that can't be helped. The only thing you can do is either be patient or upgrade to a Premium order to get your unit faster.
Sources: Please contribute.
I can't be patient! They're slower than dead cheetahs!
The bottleneck (aka, the one simple thing causing this big issue) is not manpower on OpenPandora's part. CircuitCo (the company making the boards) simply isn't producing boards fast enough. (They did promise 500 a week, but to be fair, we haven't heard their side of the story.) Switching to another company is not simple; the Pandora's board is very complex. Practically no other companies wanted to make such small amounts of it (to say nothing of the business end, which would be a pain in the ass). OpenPandora is just working with what CircuitCo is providing them. If you upgrade to Premium (all the boards must be paid for up-front, aka before they're made), then you'll help speed it up a bit, in theory. In practice, that remains to be seen. Also, there's been a small delay due to wi-fi issues as of late.
Sources: 1
I shouldn't have to pay more money for something I already paid for!
You're right. You shouldn't, and you don't. But if you couldn't, then the whole project would go bust, two great men would be eyes-deep in debt, and you'd never get your Pandora. The community that already surrounds it would collapse on itself, everything would stagnate, and you'd be stuck with an unchanging device (which, I might add, won't be able to be guarantee-ably serviced). And no one is making you pay more; you'll still get yours if you wait, and not have paid any more than you did for your initial order. Yes, it'll take much longer (another case of theory vs. practice) due to Premiums going out sooner, the shortage of boards, and the latest (as of this writing) hiccup of faulty wi-fi chips. But you're not being ripped off. Patience (or an extra $150, or thereabouts) is the only way out if you still want yours.
Sources: 1
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