Why so few 3D games on Pandora?


Coldbird

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
397
(Compared to 2D titles...)


I'm kinda curious what the forums general oppinion about this is...


People too scared to tackle OpenGL ES? Is it too confusing for the average programmer?


I myself am making my first baby steps with OpenGL ES 2.0 right now... so far it's been a fun experience but I will toss my oppinion in from what I've seen so far...


COMPLEXITY ALL THE WAY - this baby is way too complex (and thus confusing) for most of the programming newcomers (to which I count myself as well).


The only reason I stick to it is because I'm one of the people that has a neverending thirst for wisdom... (and a plan...)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think it's more than just programming complexity. Designing a game with three dimensions is simply more complicated than a 2D game (jump-n-run platformer vs FPS for example).


Plus collision detection and other issues become more complicated, too.
 
the GLES code complexity is not the real problem. Once you grok it enough, you can build your abstraction layer and you're done.


Mr Rob have a good point though.


Also as most games on pandora are ports, you have to look at the games availables... Most game you can actually port are 2D games as they are the majority, beside many 3D games need more power than what the pandora have to offer (CPU and 3d wise).


For a 3d game to be successfull on pandora it need model without too many poly and that doesnt need to much float operation on the CPU which limits ports up-to quake3.
 
True enough but still, you are implying that the only way a 3D game can make its way onto the Pandora are through ports...


What stops people to make something new, aimed at the Pandora Hardware?
 
No, but making a 3D game from scratch is sufficiently more difficult than making a 2D game from scratch. And many of the people here are learning programming/game programming, so you don't start with the hard stuff.
 
I'm currently working on Hot Pursuit that will be 3D. It has, however, started using Allegro 5 and I'll be drawing the world in 2D to start with. My plan is then to swap the rendering sections out into GL/GLES or some other sort of 3D engine.


To be honest, I'm not sure if this will just end up making things way to complicated for me, but every 3D engine I've tried to look at (Irrlicht, OGRE, etc.) confuse the hell out of me. I have done some GL stuff, but coding all the GL bit myself with hidden surface removal is also a lot of work. I hope it doesn't, otherwise, the game will probably still end up 2D with 3D calculations. I also currently have little idea the differences between GL and GLES


My current plan for 3D is looking at the WaveBreaker, and playing with the code from that.


If anybody has any advice on any better ways to go about this game, I'm all ears - but I would really *really* like it to run on desktop (preferably windows) for ease of debugging.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I also currently have little idea the differences between GL and GLES
Rather limited. See this. I for one coded panmines (yes it use gles) on the desktop while testing once in a while if it was working on pandora. I know other games have been done this way :)

My current plan for 3D is looking at the WaveBreaker, and playing with the code from that.
I would recommand against that. There are better code to start from. This guide is awesome imo : http://pandorawiki.org/GLESGAE
 
I wonder if someone tried to compile Open Arena, Warsaw, Nexuiz etc...
 
Confirmed: sebt3 is working on Open Arena, Warsaw, and Nexuiz.


(meme's never die, they just sit around a while waiting to be re-discovered)
 
I actually prefer 2D games over 3D ones. For some reason unknown to me, 2D games dare to experiment more with gameplay than 3D games do.
 
I wonder if someone tried to compile Open Arena, Warsaw, Nexuiz etc...
they need way more than a mere rebuild, that's the reason why they arent yet done ;)
Confirmed: sebt3 is working on Open Arena, Warsaw, and Nexuiz.


(meme's never die, they just sit around a while waiting to be re-discovered)
Haha ! Just sent this to Wikileaks !

I actually prefer 2D games over 3D ones. For some reason unknown to me, 2D games dare to experiment more with gameplay than 3D games do.
Agree.


I'm a huge megadrive/genesis fan.


3D is also one reason why StarCraft 2 is a huge piece of crap.
 
I for one coded panmines (yes it use gles) on the desktop while testing once in a while if it was working on pandora.
Did you have to do anything specific to the code to run on both? (other than use a different compiler)


Allegro let's you access OpenGL through it, and I'm very tempted to offer a bounty for Allegro5 libs for the Pandora, Would I use GLES calls outside of Allegro? I'm afraid nearly everything outside of a 2D system is new to me (though I did write a 3D raytracer ala Wolf3D in C, VB.NET and C# (well, three engines, one per language)). They were primitive though.

There are better code to start from. This guide is awesome imo : http://pandorawiki.org/GLESGAE
Thanks, I'll have a rummage through that

3D is also one reason why StarCraft 2 is a huge piece of crap.
Actually, I found it a massive improvement over SC and BW. That said, not actually related to the graphics, more just the new and refined game mechanics - like rally mining, action queues etc. Love it.
 
Confirmed: sebt3 is working on Open Arena, Warsaw, and Nexuiz.


(meme's never die, they just sit around a while waiting to be re-discovered)
Seen me working on a fps ? I guess not. The reason : I dislike fps like plague. so continu waiting on me if you want, but you'ld better start your own port man

Did you have to do anything specific to the code to run on both? (other than use a different compiler)
Beside not using GL feature not available in GLES, a few #ifdef and changing the link command based on the system I build for ? No


Panmines sources are available on my website but I would recommand against using them as base sources(hint : I'm not using them in my next project)


EDIT: IRC is awlays a good place to get some help ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Actually, I found it a massive improvement over SC and BW. That said, not actually related to the graphics, more just the new and refined game mechanics - like rally mining, action queues etc. Love it.
Just what killed the hardcore TT.
 
I think that because I grew up in the 70s and 80s, I prefer games that remind me of my youth - hence my excitement when I first encountered FMN, and that 99% of all the games on my Pandora are 2D. Actually, I think the only 3D game is that audiorace game, and I really don't know why I keep it around as it feels like a poor copy of Audiosurf on steam. The Pandora is better set up for 2D to my mind.


My current project is a BASIC interpreter for making 256 colour 2D games, and that excites me a lot - younger coders though might have other ideas about what games they like best.


D.
 
Confirmed: sebt3 is working on Open Arena, Warsaw, and Nexuiz.


(meme's never die, they just sit around a while waiting to be re-discovered)
Seen me working on a fps ? I guess not. The reason : I dislike fps like plague. so continu waiting on me if you want, but you'ld better start your own port man
It was a joke. I all but said "this is a joke". I used to be funny, dag nabbit!
 
Panmines sources are available on my website but I would recommand against using them as base sources(hint : I'm not using them in my next project)
lol, okay :)

EDIT: IRC is awlays a good place to get some help ;)
Yeah, I really don't like any IRC clients I've tried lately. I can't seem to find one that'll auto log me into two differenent servers, with one channel on each server. I'm currently on VisualIRC, that opens #openpandora on both servers... pffft
 
Yeah, I really don't like any IRC clients I've tried lately. I can't seem to find one that'll auto log me into two differenent servers, with one channel on each server. I'm currently on VisualIRC, that opens #openpandora on both servers... pffft
xchat ?
 
Back
Top