Why No Vga?

[deadfishes]

Why did the pandora team opt for something like S-Video instead of VGA? It seems like it would of been easier to have a VGA out on it instead of an S-Video.
S-Video is basically compressed VGA (rgb) with a set Hrz (pal or ntsc)and gimped out resolution. I can still run it though my XRGB-3 but, that kind of hinders the portability of being able to whip it out at a friends house and have it output to a monitor or hdtv.

 

[Kimundi]

Because the OMAP3 Chipset offers it for free.
It has a Digital Video Out that drives the LCD, and an analog one that can either act as composite out or s-video out.

 

[deadfishes]

Because the OMAP3 Chipset offers it for free.
It has a Digital Video Out that drives the LCD, and an analog one that can either act as composite out or s-video out.

VGA is free? It's not some licensed format like HDMI. From the way you are explaining it it sounds like Pandora team
didn't design the architecture from scratch but rather they are using a pre-made board that they are just throwing in
an enclosure? Some how I don't think that sounds right? If they had any creative direction over the chip they could
of put a VGA pin-output going from the RGB / Sync straight out to a DB15 plug.I bet I could probably stick one on,
I'm just would not be able to write drivers for it at all, which would be problematic as I probably could not
control the sync output.

 

[God Ginrai]

Because the OMAP3 Chipset offers it for free.
It has a Digital Video Out that drives the LCD, and an analog one that can either act as composite out or s-video out.

VGA is free? It's not some licensed format like HDMI. From the way you are explaining it it sounds like Pandora team
didn't design the architecture from scratch but rather they are using a pre-made board that they are just throwing in
an enclosure? Some how I don't think that sounds right? If they had any creative direction over the chip they could
of put a VGA pin-output going from the RGB / Sync straight out to a DB15 plug.I bet I could probably stick one on,
I'm just would not be able to write drivers for it at all, which would be problematic as I probably could not
control the sync output.

They are using a System On A Chip, which includes many of the necessities, and then they added in the extra parts they needed, but they can't add just anything in, because they are constrained by the abilities of the Chip. (This is how most embeddded device companies do it) You know, the search function would have helped you with this a lot.

-God Ginrai

 

[WizardStan]

The chip they're using has one digital out (which is connected to the LCD) and one analogue out, which is the S-Video. To have added VGA would have made the board much more complicated and costly, for almost no real payoff. You may be interested in plugging it into a monitor, but I have a desktop for that purpose. I want something that I can take on the road, so VGA gives me no benefit, and I'm not the only one.
If a cheap mini computer that can plug into a higher res monitor is what you want, get a BeagleBoard. It's based on the same chip as the Pandora is using, except the digital out was sent to a DVI output (or is that HDMI? I always get those two confused)
I intend to make some kind of awesome hybrid system that allows them to work in tandem. Not sure how I'll achieve that yet, but by golly it'll be sweet.

 

[deadfishes]

It would be nice to have someone who actually knows something about video outputs explain this too me. The search function didn't help because there has been no intelligent answer to this question. I am not a software guy but I do lots of custom hardware work. I know from a hardware standpoint this would be exceedingly simple. If someone who actually has added a video output to a board in their lives and has any insight as to why this was no done with the Pandora, please enlighten me.

 

[God Ginrai]

It would be nice to have someone who actually knows something about video outputs explain this too me. The search function didn't help because there has been no intelligent answer to this question. I am not a software guy but I do lots of custom hardware work. I know from a hardware standpoint this would be exceedingly simple. If someone who actually has added a video output to a board in their lives and has any insight as to why this was no done with the Pandora, please enlighten me.

MWeston has made plenty of answers himself explaining why, and he is the hardware guy for the project. You just didn't search well. (if at all)

-God Ginrai

 

[lulzfish]

It's like this:

The GPU has an LCD output and an S-Video output.
The Pandora team did not add a VGA out because it simply is not part of the chip's design, and designing a whole new CPU/GPU/DSP combo chip would be WAY too expensive.

So, VGA was not worth the effort. Maybe they'll add it in a hardware upgrade in a few years.

 

[WizardStan]

I am not a software guy but I do lots of custom hardware work. I know from a hardware standpoint this would be exceedingly simple.

These sentences seem to contradict each other.

 

[Adventus]

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/40565-just-s-video-and-composite-why-not-more-video-outputs/page__p__586910&#entry586910

 

[deadfishes]

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/40565-just-s-video-and-composite-why-not-more-video-outputs/page__p__586910&#entry586910

Thank you for the link, but again this is a lot of useless information. Adding VGA (for me) to the Pandora will be a simple process of taking out my multimeter, finding the R,G,B and Sync traces on the board... then wiring them to a DB15(vga) female connector and maybe some pentometes for the signals. Obviously the OS is setup so that it can use two video outputs. The only worry about the mod is that it may not be able to recognize the "monitor" as a monitor and shut off any refresh rate adjustments that it would need.

Can someone give me a real answer? Or a link to a post with a real one? Because I sure as hell can't find one.

I am not a software guy but I do lots of custom hardware work. I know from a hardware standpoint this would be exceedingly simple.

These sentences seem to contradict each other.

software engineering vs. hardware engineering
c++ vs. machine code
SDK vs. resistors, eeproms and caps

14yr olds = GTFO

 

[WizardStan]

Thank you for the link, but again this is a lot of useless information. Adding VGA (for me) to the Pandora will be a simple process of taking out my multimeter, finding the R,G,B and Sync traces on the board... then wiring them to a DB15(vga) female connector and maybe some pentometes for the signals. Obviously the OS is setup so that it can use two video outputs. The only worry about the mod is that it may not be able to recognize the "monitor" as a monitor and shut off any refresh rate adjustments that it would need.

Can someone give me a real answer? Or a link to a post with a real one? Because I sure as hell can't find one.

What makes you think there are RGB lines on the board? Answer: there aren't any. I don't know what answer you're looking for. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions without knowing even the first thing about embedded hardware design.
The processor is an all-in-one chip. It is basically CPU/GPU/HD/RAM in a single package. This is a standard design for pretty much all portable devices. On the OMAP3, the GPU outputs a set of digital lines (which are linked to the LCD driver) and a chroma/luma pair which outputs a standard TV signal (ie, S-Video). The lines you are looking for don't exist, and there is no reason whatsoever that they should; there's the digital lines which can be made to do whatever they wanted, and for free you get the S-Video output.
Now, they could have built extra hardware onto the board to take the digital lines, split it, run one bus into the LCD driver and the other into an ADC to produce the RGB and sync lines, but that would have been risky, time consuming, and costly, for a feature with minimal benefit on a portable device.

 

[WizardStan]

I am not a software guy but I do lots of custom hardware work. I know from a hardware standpoint this would be exceedingly simple.

These sentences seem to contradict each other.

software engineering vs. hardware engineering
c++ vs. machine code
SDK vs. resistors, eeproms and caps

14yr olds = GTFO

The point was that you claim to do hardware work (and I assume that implies you think you know what you're doing) and then follow it up by saying that something that is provably difficult (if you'd taken the time to do any research) is simple. That is the contradiction. Either you don't know actually know what you're doing, or it is not as simple as you think it is.

 

[gaterooze]

Wow. They've answered your question ("Why did the pandora team opt for something like S-Video instead of VGA?") numerous times already.

If you're now asking a different question, which it seems you are (i.e. "Is there a VGA driver that will work with a hardware mod?"), why don't you do so clearly and nicely and some kind soul might know the answer?

 

[atomicthumbs]

 

S-Video is basically compressed VGA (rgb) with a set Hrz (pal or ntsc)and gimped out resolution.

No. S-video is basically a composite signal, but with chrominance and luminance divided into two cables for higher quality. It is nothing like VGA, other than the fact it carries analog video. Do some research before posting your opinion.

Edit:

And how the hell are you going to use a multimeter to find video signals?

 

[Spirit]

And how the hell are you going to use a multimeter to find video signals?

By wiring some cables to his head and waiting for the colours to kick in.

 

[G189]

This is beginning to remind me of the John Doe thread.

 

[gruso]

14yr olds = GTFO

Lose the attitude, you're making a fool of yourself.

And don't think that because Pandora's SoC is (for want of a better term) an off the shelf product, that the team is just throwing a board into a box. A solid year of design work has gone into it. You should take notice of MWeston's posts when they're linked for you, because he's the guy who did it.


Edit: sp.

 

[deadfishes]

What makes you think there are RGB lines on the board? Answer: there aren't any. I don't know what answer you're looking for. You seem to be making a lot of assumptions without knowing even the first thing about embedded hardware design.

First dude, and everyone else here who likes to play Mr. Know it All. This is NOT a monitor theory or signal compression class. I'm just not going to explain how it works to you guys if you are going to act omniscient about something you obviously don't know ANYTHING about. Stop posting garbage in my thread. Telling me there is no RGB output is the most insane thing I've ever heard in my entire life. I'd be more than happy to answer questions but I'm not catering to just mounds of shit being laid down here when something useful could be instead.

Someone who doesn't know the difference between HDMI and DVI (never mind the many variants of DVI) doesn't have any business posting in this thread unless it is to ask a question.

Now, the way we can determine weather or not you know anything about VGA connections and why they are not on the Pandora is we can ask you..

Have you ever installed a video-output onto anything (doesn't have to be VGA)
Have you ever worked on / helped design a video driver board.

if you answered yes to either of these questions then you can probably provide some educated input into this question. If not, lets hear what your "theory" is but don't be an ass hat about it.

 

[Squidge]

Thank you for the link, but again this is a lot of useless information. Adding VGA (for me) to the Pandora will be a simple process of taking out my multimeter, finding the R,G,B and Sync traces on the board... then wiring them to a DB15(vga) female connector and maybe some pentometes for the signals. Obviously the OS is setup so that it can use two video outputs. The only worry about the mod is that it may not be able to recognize the "monitor" as a monitor and shut off any refresh rate adjustments that it would need.

Really? All you need to find RGB signals is a multi meter? I wish I'd had known that before spending £2000 on an oscilloscope.

Other people have already stated exactly why you can't do what you think you can do, so I won't bother repeating there words, but it seems quite clear thast you are not the hardware engineer that you think you are. Why would you think there's even analogue RGB on the board when theres absolutely no reason for it whatsoever?

Then you insult those people answering your questions for you. Nice move.

If you want, I can send you a link to some schematics if you require further proof.