What would you like to see?


Has anyone loaded up:

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/8871-how-to-install-android-on-your-pandora//URL]

I wonder - would it be possible to run Android as an application and switch back & forth throwing Android into the background with 2% or so of the CPU (keep it on life support so it gets messages)?

One of my dreams for the Pyra is to have TWO Android instances running and be able to switch from Debian to Android to Debian to Android2 with all 3 still running (though backgrounded ones would get far less CPU time).  The application?  I want to put my email and work related items in a limited-use Android sandbox.  Then I would like to have my Android games in a 2nd lower security environment where I won't have to worry about leaky apps (games).

Ideally both environments would be 'always on' and talking through a communications stack (Bridge) running on Debian so that they can get messaging pulls/pushes.  A way to dictate how much CPU each one gets while foreground & background would be cool.

I realize it's a tall request.  However, being able to do this would potentially replace 3-4 devices.  Phone with secure email, low security tablet with games requiring permissions they don't need, Pandora &/or laptop desktop computer experience.

Is it possible?  How do we get from here to there?
 
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Grench said:
Has anyone loaded up:

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/8871-how-to-install-android-on-your-pandora//URL]


I wonder - would it be possible to run Android as an application and switch back & forth throwing Android into the background with 2% or so of the CPU (keep it on life support so it gets messages)?


One of my dreams for the Pyra is to have TWO Android instances running and be able to switch from Debian to Android to Debian to Android2 with all 3 still running (though backgrounded ones would get far less CPU time).  The application?  I want to put my email and work related items in a limited-use Android sandbox.  Then I would like to have my Android games in a 2nd lower security environment where I won't have to worry about leaky apps (games).


Ideally both environments would be 'always on' and talking through a communications stack (Bridge) running on Debian so that they can get messaging pulls/pushes.  A way to dictate how much CPU each one gets while foreground & background would be cool.


I realize it's a tall request.  However, being able to do this would potentially replace 3-4 devices.  Phone with secure email, low security tablet with games requiring permissions they don't need, Pandora &/or laptop desktop computer experience.


Is it possible?  How do we get from here to there?
Click to expand...
Well, I guess KVM would be a start but I have no idea how to get both instances of Android to not whack eachother in the face with modem commands. You would probably also not want both of them to ring when they receive a call unless you have a very creative combination of ringtones.
 
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Djhg2000 said:
Grench said:
Has anyone loaded up:

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/8871-how-to-install-android-on-your-pandora//URL]


I wonder - would it be possible to run Android as an application and switch back & forth throwing Android into the background with 2% or so of the CPU (keep it on life support so it gets messages)?


One of my dreams for the Pyra is to have TWO Android instances running and be able to switch from Debian to Android to Debian to Android2 with all 3 still running (though backgrounded ones would get far less CPU time).  The application?  I want to put my email and work related items in a limited-use Android sandbox.  Then I would like to have my Android games in a 2nd lower security environment where I won't have to worry about leaky apps (games).


Ideally both environments would be 'always on' and talking through a communications stack (Bridge) running on Debian so that they can get messaging pulls/pushes.  A way to dictate how much CPU each one gets while foreground & background would be cool.


I realize it's a tall request.  However, being able to do this would potentially replace 3-4 devices.  Phone with secure email, low security tablet with games requiring permissions they don't need, Pandora &/or laptop desktop computer experience.


Is it possible?  How do we get from here to there?
Click to expand...
Well, I guess KVM would be a start but I have no idea how to get both instances of Android to not whack eachother in the face with modem commands. You would probably also not want both of them to ring when they receive a call unless you have a very creative combination of ringtones.
Click to expand...
Actually, I'd just as soon have both Android instances running in connected tablet mode - no phone, just data.  It's an -advantage- if they can only access the data in one directory on a single card.  Data can be staged in/out from the root OS (Debian).

It would have to be set up a lot like VirtualBox handles networking for Virtual Machines.  The VM handler would need to create a virtual network bridge.
 
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Grench said:
Djhg2000 said:
Grench said:
Has anyone loaded up:

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/8871-how-to-install-android-on-your-pandora//URL]


I wonder - would it be possible to run Android as an application and switch back & forth throwing Android into the background with 2% or so of the CPU (keep it on life support so it gets messages)?


One of my dreams for the Pyra is to have TWO Android instances running and be able to switch from Debian to Android to Debian to Android2 with all 3 still running (though backgrounded ones would get far less CPU time). The application? I want to put my email and work related items in a limited-use Android sandbox. Then I would like to have my Android games in a 2nd lower security environment where I won't have to worry about leaky apps (games).


Ideally both environments would be 'always on' and talking through a communications stack (Bridge) running on Debian so that they can get messaging pulls/pushes. A way to dictate how much CPU each one gets while foreground & background would be cool.


I realize it's a tall request. However, being able to do this would potentially replace 3-4 devices. Phone with secure email, low security tablet with games requiring permissions they don't need, Pandora &/or laptop desktop computer experience.


Is it possible? How do we get from here to there?
Click to expand...
Well, I guess KVM would be a start but I have no idea how to get both instances of Android to not whack eachother in the face with modem commands. You would probably also not want both of them to ring when they receive a call unless you have a very creative combination of ringtones.
Click to expand...
Actually, I'd just as soon have both Android instances running in connected tablet mode - no phone, just data. It's an -advantage- if they can only access the data in one directory on a single card. Data can be staged in/out from the root OS (Debian).


It would have to be set up a lot like VirtualBox handles networking for Virtual Machines. The VM handler would need to create a virtual network bridge.
Click to expand...
So basically KVM with libvirt then?
 
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The Pyra won't be much faster than the devboard, more RAM than some offer but the same processor.

We don't have much hardware acceleration, if any at this point...
 
Grench said:
I wonder - will the Pyra be faster than the dev board?  I seem to recall that the dev board's implementation was kind of a 'worst world' scenario?
Click to expand...
Well I don't have 3D acceleration working on my devboard, that OS build shown in that video was put together by myself and I could have missed something to boost performance and I haven't been able to overclock the devboard in anyway.. So in my case there could be room for speed improvements. Also seeing how that was a fairly demanding x86 windows game CPU wise, I think the platform has good potential.
 
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There can be other constraints beyond the SoC itself though.

Isn't the dev board running a Kingston NAND @ 20MB/s though or are you running this just from an SD card?  How much IO was involved in the game tests?  If from an SD card, how fast?

How much RAM is on the dev board?  Are you using a swap file and is it having to go to the swap?  These are some pretty big and demanding software applications that are getting thrown at it after all.

From what I've been able to tell, the Pyra board should be a step up from the dev board in component quality, size and speed (RAM, NAND), but maybe that is my overly positive outlook.

On another note...  I've been using Debian as my core home workstation OS for quite a while now.  One of the impressive things it can do is to create a software RAID at a partition level.  The bootloader gets stored in it's own tiny partition, then partitions one the individual drives are married with mdadm.

Example:  My current setup uses 2 Samsung 500GB SSD drives.  Each is partitioned into 4 chunks.

1.  Bootloader - only on 1 drive.  The other drive this space is left empty.

2.  25GB OS - which is set up as a 50GB striped software RAID and assigned /.

3.  25GB swap - which is set up as a 50GB swap striped software RAID.

4. 440GB (the rest) - which is set up as an 880GB /home partition.

According to the benchmarks I've run, I'm getting just shy of 500MB/s on that setup.

So, I had this thought...  If a person were willing to sacrifice being able to remove the SD cards...  

Put a 128GB 95MB/sec microSD into the internal microSD slot, two 256GB 90MB/sec cards into the SD slots.  Partition as follows:

microSD 1 = bootloader 1GB

microSD 2 = 20GB to join into the OS / stripe

microSD 3 = 5GB to join into the swap stripe

microSD 4 = 100GB to join into the /home stripe

both SD cards as

1 = 120GB to join to an additional volume

2 = 20GB to join into the OS / stripe

3 = 5GB to join into the swap stripe

4 = 100GB to join into the /home stripe

 

Join the partitions into a software raid volumes as follows:

microsd 2 + sd1 2 + sd2 2 = 60GB OS drive striped over 3 volumes each running at 90+MB/s read ~ 270MB/s OS

microsd 3 + sd1 3 + sd2 3 = 15GB swap drive striped over 3 volumes

microsd 4 + sd1 4 + sd2 4 = 300GB in the /home directory, again running at something in the 270MB/s range

sd1 1 + sd2 1 = 240GB as an additional striped volume at around 180MB/s

 

Now you're all going to tell me how this isn't possible, but it was a sweet dream.
 
Grench said:
Isn't the dev board running a Kingston NAND @ 20MB/s though or are you running this just from an SD card?
Click to expand...
Not really sure what the devboard uses for NAND, you are probably right. I've been just running from an SD card, on fairly well rated  MicroSD card.
The Devboard has 2GB of ram, during the CIV IV experiment I was running at ~700MB system ram usage total, no need for swap. I was also running Civ IV off a 120GB SATA drive, Both CPUs were pegged while loading the mission.
 
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Fantastic - thank you.  Very cool that the encoding was able to keep up with the rip.
 
TrashyMG said:
Grench said:
Isn't the dev board running a Kingston NAND @ 20MB/s though or are you running this just from an SD card?
Click to expand...
Not really sure what the devboard uses for NAND, you are probably right. I've been just running from an SD card, on fairly well rated  MicroSD card.

The Devboard has 2GB of ram, during the CIV IV experiment I was running at ~700MB system ram usage total, no need for swap. I was also running Civ IV off a 120GB SATA drive, Both CPUs were pegged while loading the mission.
Click to expand...
It seem in the near future there could be more, and better RAM made especialy for SoC's :)

Samsung Preps 4 GB LPDDR4 RAM to Power "4K" Smartphones in 2015
 
I haven't checked into the boards in a while but I was pleased to see this thread and the very helpful videos that ED and TrashyMG have posted. Definitely is looking pretty nice from a performance standpoint!

Thanks, guys!
 
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I know you don't have GL stuff working just yet but I really want to see x86 emulated dwarf fortress running! Playing dwarf fortress on a tablet is almost impossible, and having a physical keyboard so neatly packaged makes the pandora and pyra uniquely capable of playing DF.

Most of the things I want to see require OpenGL actually, I really want to see the binding of isaac and the original black & white by lionhead. I think the SOC on the pyra should be able to run Black & White, but the emulation to x86 and Direct3D might slow it down too much, I don't know.

What about Liberal Crime Squad? That's open source: http://sourceforge.net/p/lcsgame/code/HEAD/tree/

It even comes with a linux readme for compiling and installation which should make it easy, it's another game that uses a keyboard extensively and is a real pain on most mobile devices, and while it doesn't represent any huge performance challenge it is something that showcases the USP of the pandora to me which was the keyboard.
 
DizzySkin said:
I know you don't have GL stuff working just yet but I really want to see x86 emulated dwarf fortress running! Playing dwarf fortress on a tablet is almost impossible, and having a physical keyboard so neatly packaged makes the pandora and pyra uniquely capable of playing DF.

Most of the things I want to see require OpenGL actually, I really want to see the binding of isaac and the original black & white by lionhead. I think the SOC on the pyra should be able to run Black & White, but the emulation to x86 and Direct3D might slow it down too much, I don't know.

What about Liberal Crime Squad? That's open source: http://sourceforge.net/p/lcsgame/code/HEAD/tree/

It even comes with a linux readme for compiling and installation which should make it easy, it's another game that uses a keyboard extensively and is a real pain on most mobile devices, and while it doesn't represent any huge performance challenge it is something that showcases the USP of the pandora to me which was the keyboard.
Click to expand...
Well, you can always stream it from a desktop/laptop, or you can use the SSH method. 

-Glyph Reader
 
Alright i've compiled the hardfloat version of dosbox on a pyra devboard using MH-T's instructions. According to aTc my devboard isn't running at full power yet so whatever.

Trashy you can grab it from me on IRC.

I've tried Blood and Crusader no regret - Both of which struggle on the Pandora and i'm happy to report they are BOTH fullspeed. Video coming soon after I test a game that really died on the pandora.
 
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