We all know what it CAN do


Guys, when we talk about the Pandora's capabilities, we generally include adding stuff with USB. So the Pandora CAN read CDs, if you plug in a CD drive. And if you plug in a GPS and write some drivers or software, you could use that for Pandora, too.
 
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Stuff missing:


- HDMI port


- GPS


- Cell phone sim card slot


- Front and/or rear facing cameras


- Wifi 802.11n


- WiMax


- 3 axis accelerometer


- Magnetometer (compass)
Except the Pandora CAN do all of these things. It requires an additional USB stuff, but due to the open nature of the Pandora you actually can add these things at reasonable cost. Compare that to your iPods and smartphones :p


(and don't even get started on suggesting making it a real phone :p )

- Skype (audio, but video would be nice too)
Is Ekiga close enough? Not skype exactly, but it does let you make SIP calls and (in theory) video calls. I should actually help test that, get it working properly.

- Multi-touch capacitive touch screen
That is a good thing, in my opinion. There are pros and cons between resistive and capacitive screens, and for me, the pros of resistive touch screen balance out the cons and the pros of capacitive.

- True "instant on"
I'll need a definition of this, possibly an example of other devices that have it, before I can make any judgment or suggestion.

- USB 3.0


- 3D viewing


- 1GHz CPU before overclocking and without fan


- An x86 compatibility mode for running Windows apps.


- Or a built-in x86 processor (like VIA Nano) in addition to or instead of the ARM processor. (But I should mention that I'm biased, since I help design the VIA Nano x86 processor).
Now these are true, but it's a bit like complaining your car sucks because it can't fly, isn't it? :p
 
Wow, lots of not-serious posts. :lol:


There are some things it will probably never be able to do:


- Full-speed [insert name of software or emulators that need more power than Pandora could ever provide].


- Native 3D visuals, other than anaglyph or cross-eye/parallel eye solutions. Shutter glasses might be possible. Hope someone's up for that someday. :)


- Make everyone agree on any particular topic. :lol:
 
This has come up before, and I have to ask: what would you do with a sim card reader in a pandora? It doesn't have a cellular modem, so you could... read the contacts saved on it?
Oh and backup your SMS messages, if you use that old a phone that makes use of the SIM memory for them. I dont see the need either, there actually are USB SIM card backup devices if you really need one, and most USB GPRS/3G/HSDPA/whatever-sticks can also do that.
 
Oh and backup your SMS messages, if you use that old a phone that makes use of the SIM memory for them. I dont see the need either, there actually are USB SIM card backup devices if you really need one, and most USB GPRS/3G/HSDPA/whatever-sticks can also do that.

Hmm... There appears to be a USB device for just about everything. Why not just get a USB x86 processor with room for a discrete desktop graphics card, then we could do anything! ;)
 
What it cannot do?


- Arrive before Christmas


Apart from that, I don't see.
 
It can't make you a better person.


It can't make someone love you.


I think these are two of its biggest flaws, but I might buy it anyway if the Wi-Fi and battery issues are cleared up.
 
It can't make you a better person.


It can't make someone love you.


I think these are two of its biggest flaws, but I might buy it anyway if the Wi-Fi and battery issues are cleared up.
Not true, I'm sure some people would love you if you had one, and you can walk around saying you're better than people who don't have one...
 
Except the Pandora CAN do all of these things. It requires an additional USB stuff, but due to the open nature of the Pandora you actually can add these things at reasonable cost. Compare that to your iPods and smartphones :p


(and don't even get started on suggesting making it a real phone :p )

Well, that's the thing. A lot of those things can be done with add-on peripherals. I already mentioned that. And I didn't think we were comparing them to other devices, were we?


But what I'm getting at is that these sorts of things that I've listed off are coming standard now with many of the latest hardware gadgets. Not all gadgets have all those things, of course. And the Pandora has a lot more going for it than any other gadget out there (and the cost reflects that of course). But my point is that in another couple of years, I suspect a lot of us will think it's almost quaint not to have built-in GPS, accelerometer, magnetometer, skype, cell-phone sim card slot (yes making it a real cell phone), wireless N, WiMax, etc. That's because so many gadgets coming out today have that stuff. Imagine what two years from now will bring.


There's a lot of integration and system-on-a-chip designs going on right now. It's making it a lot easier to design gadgets with these things. It's how the Pandora console exists even.

Is Ekiga close enough?

Not really. I want Skype. I think a lot of us are saying the same thing, and it has been discussed sufficiently already.

I'll need a definition of this, possibly an example of other devices that have it, before I can make any judgment or suggestion.

Okay, regarding "instant on", what I'm referring to is the idea that you can press the power button to turn it on, and it instantly responds with a login prompt and/or your desktop. No need to go through a boot-up procedure. Just remember the state of the system at last power-down. Oh, and power-down should be as instantaneous.


I have seen videos of the boot-up of the GP2X Wizard, and it seems like it's only 10 seconds or so? That's good enough for me. But I've also seen videos demonstrating the Pandora console boot-up, and it was on the order of a half minute to a minute? That's pretty long just to check the time, make a note, recall someone's email address, etc.


"Instant on" is a feature that everyone strives for, but most never come close. Ten seconds is close. A couple seconds would be much better. A minute is pretty far away.

Now these are true, but it's a bit like complaining your car sucks because it can't fly, isn't it? :p

So ARM CPU is to a car as x86 CPU is to an airplane? Not exactly. It's more like ARM CPU is to a Diesel engine as x86 CPU is to a gasoline engine. Both engines can pretty much do the same things. But at least here in the U.S., gasoline is cheaper and more readily available than Diesel. My point is that x86 has a lot of advantages.


And 3D viewing is the new rage. It could be fad, but I suspect it will have staying power. Especially in hand-held gaming consoles. Definitely nothing like car vs. airplane, at least in my opinion.


- Steve
 
. . .Imagine what two years from now will bring. . .
With that attitude why not just wait two years to buy something? The Pandora is two years old and it still isn't outdated.


The question 'What CAN'T it do' is pointless. We don't even know what it can do yet, it isn't fully released yet. It has a lot of potential lets just leave it at that. I'm not understanding the point of the thread.
 
So ARM CPU is to a car as x86 CPU is to an airplane? Not exactly. It's more like ARM CPU is to a Diesel engine as x86 CPU is to a gasoline engine. Both engines can pretty much do the same things. But at least here in the U.S., gasoline is cheaper and more readily available than Diesel. My point is that x86 has a lot of advantages.

I would say an ARM CPU is like an induction cooker, while x86 is a campfire :D
 
...cell-phone sim card slot (yes making it a real cell phone)...

I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but I've seen people with this weird conception that a sim card reader somehow magically makes things into cell phones. I just want to stress, that it doesn't. A far more important part of being a cell phone is the cellular modem, the actual radio component that lets your phone communicate with the network. The sim card is used for authentication and small storage, but it (or the reader) doesn't contain any of the actual "cellphone" components, just like an SD card reader doesn't magically add a 12MP camera to the pandora.


If you already knew all this and I sound condescending, sorry for that. But your posts really read like you didn't. Please don't spread this "sim card reader makes things into phones" even if you know they don't.
 
But what I'm getting at is that these sorts of things that I've listed off are coming standard now with many of the latest hardware gadgets. Not all gadgets have all those things, of course. And the Pandora has a lot more going for it than any other gadget out there (and the cost reflects that of course). But my point is that in another couple of years, I suspect a lot of us will think it's almost quaint not to have built-in GPS, accelerometer, magnetometer, skype, cell-phone sim card slot (yes making it a real cell phone), wireless N, WiMax, etc. That's because so many gadgets coming out today have that stuff. Imagine what two years from now will bring.


There's a lot of integration and system-on-a-chip designs going on right now. It's making it a lot easier to design gadgets with these things. It's how the Pandora console exists even.
Of course you didn't mention that the devices you're comparing the Pandora against are mostly smartphones, which can play games but are designed to fill not quite the same market niche as the Pandora. Let's have a look at your features.


GPS – Found in some or most new smartphones. Not found in most non-smartphone handhelds. The only one I can think of was the disastrous Gizmondo. Could be nice for the Pandora but those people who want to use it with their Pandora will most likely be happy with a dongle and those who need instantly-available GPS will already own a smartphone sporting it.


Accelerometer – Found in some handhelds and consoles. Could be neat but only if they can fit it in without sacrificing any current capabilities. Very few games use accelerometer input well and fewer do so on handhelds. Yes, that includes the iPhone. I own an iPod touch. Most accelerometer games for it would've been better with conventional inputs.


Magnetometer – I think a few smartphones have it. Only useful in addition to a GPS module and/or an accelerometer. Makes more sense in a GPS/compass USB dongle than onboard.


Skype – Not a hardware feature; availability is determined by whether Skype Ltd. decides to provide a Pandora version. Launch availability probably would've cost too much money.


SIM card slot and cellular modem – Horrible idea. The functionality is orthogonal to the Pandora's current main purposes, the modem would shorten the battery runtime and between the modem, regulations, required tests and distribution issues (not to mention the fact that you'd need half a dozen different hardware versions for GSM/CDMA, UMTS/CDMA2k, different frequencies etc.) it would've pushed the proce of the Pandora way past what's acceptable. Also, the Pandora's form factor is really horrible for a telephone. The N-Gage has taught us that if you want to make a gaming phone it has to be a phone first and a console second. This would've meant throwing away just about everything the Pandora is actually about.


Of course you could use the modem for data only but then you're still stuck with all the issues like hardware versions (at the very least you need different versions for UMTS, CDMA2k, LTE and EV-DO), cellphone regulations and the like. The cost would still be prohibitive.


Wireless N – Would've been nice indeed.


WiMax – Virtually the same as a 4G cellular modem, with similar drawbacks except for the form factor as it seems to be data-only.

Okay, regarding "instant on", what I'm referring to is the idea that you can press the power button to turn it on, and it instantly responds with a login prompt and/or your desktop. No need to go through a boot-up procedure. Just remember the state of the system at last power-down. Oh, and power-down should be as instantaneous.

[...]


"Instant on" is a feature that everyone strives for, but most never come close. Ten seconds is close. A couple seconds would be much better. A minute is pretty far away.
There are three ways of doing this:


- Back in the stone age, home computers simply had their entire OS in ROM and didn't perform anything like hardware initialization at all. This is not easily possible with *nix.


- You use non-volatile RAM. Not feasible because NVRAM is neither dense nor fast nor cheap enough right now.


- You don't power down in regular usage at all but merely enter a low-power mode. This is what virtually all ARM-based devices do and what the Pandora is also expected to do. A bootup time of one minute becomes irrelevant if you only reboot the device when you upgrade the firmware. Waking up from low-power mode should be virtually instantaneous. (For a great example see the iPhone. The thing takes ages to boot but you literally only reboot it when upgrading.)

So ARM CPU is to a car as x86 CPU is to an airplane? Not exactly. It's more like ARM CPU is to a Diesel engine as x86 CPU is to a gasoline engine. Both engines can pretty much do the same things. But at least here in the U.S., gasoline is cheaper and more readily available than Diesel. My point is that x86 has a lot of advantages.
So does ARM. I'll point out that in Europe, diesel is cheaper, more efficient and just as easily available as gasoline. Both are suited to different tasks. ARM tends to be good at low-power computing, a market x86 has had a hard time penetrating.


Besides, if having a nice architecture was worth anything SPARC would've displaced x86 back in the 90s. Even if Intels new low-power x86s should be the Betamax to ARM's VHS, well, I still expect them to be Betamax: Interesting for a few niches but shunned by the consumer market because of a rather mediocre first offering.

And 3D viewing is the new rage. It could be fad, but I suspect it will have staying power. Especially in hand-held gaming consoles. Definitely nothing like car vs. airplane, at least in my opinion.
I expect it to be constrained to a niche due to ergonomics concerns. 3D displays tend to suffer from biological compatibility issues, which is inherently market-limiting. Nintendo's new handheld might work but if I designed a new handheld I wouldn't sink money into a 3D display without a few further years of experience and technological refinement.
 
About the "instant on" SteveInAustin talked about, all the PDA that I owned, needed some time to boot, just like my cellular.


But once booted, they would never turn off completely (well, they would but only when low on battery) . Instead, they would switch to a really low power state that looked like they where off and gave you the feeling of it…


I think most of the current owners are using their pandora the same way.


You boot it, and when not in use, just put it in low power state (can't remember if it's already automatic when flipping the screen shut).


Moreover, as more and more people will get their Pandora, the OS will be finely tuned to be faster and sturdier.


So a boot time of 15 sec isn't an impossibility… just wait & see.


Remember that the Pandora was planned to be an open handheld console with PDA-like capabilities. the successor of the GP2x, not a full-fledged computer neither a phone.


We are lucky that in the end the Pandora is powerful enough to be used almost like a netbook.


To be honest, I will be more than happy with my Pandora as a handheld console.


If I wanted a phone or a real computer, I would have bought something else
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EDIT: woo ninja'd
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Well, that's the thing. A lot of those things can be done with add-on peripherals. I already mentioned that. And I didn't think we were comparing them to other devices, were we?
But the topic is what can't the Pandora do. The things you've listed are all things that it can do. That was my point, that one of the things that the Pandora CAN do is not be limited by what the manufacturer has decided you should have. You CAN do all the things you've listed, including turning it into a cell phone, and no one is going to try and stop you. That is something you CAN'T do with modern smart phones.

Not really. I want Skype. I think a lot of us are saying the same thing, and it has been discussed sufficiently already.
But why? SIP is the exact same thing just an open protocol. You can even make and receive phone calls with it. A lot of discussion has gone on about getting Skype, but most of those just want it so they can make calls with their Pandora, and accept that SIP is an excellent alternative protocol. Tell what it is about Skype that you actually need, and we may be able to find a suitable alternative (unless it's "talking to others on Skype with no interest in installing a different client", then we're kinda out of options)

"Instant on" is a feature that everyone strives for, but most never come close. Ten seconds is close. A couple seconds would be much better. A minute is pretty far away.
The Pandora, like most current smart phones, was designed with an always-on mentality. The minute long boot doesn't matter, just as it doesn't matter that it takes about as long for my HTC to come up from a cold boot, because it doesn't happen very often. More work needs to be done for the low power mode, it only lasts about 30 hours between charges against the 4 days my phone does, but it's getting there, and in theory it will eventually have an even deeper hibernate mode which will last months, just as it is with these phones, but that's a software issue that no one has had the time to look into. It's kind of low priority, you know?

So ARM CPU is to a car as x86 CPU is to an airplane? Not exactly. It's more like ARM CPU is to a Diesel engine as x86 CPU is to a gasoline engine. Both engines can pretty much do the same things. But at least here in the U.S., gasoline is cheaper and more readily available than Diesel. My point is that x86 has a lot of advantages.
It was just a means of demonstrating that they're two different things. I could have used a closer example and said "that's like complaining your XBOX can't play PS3 games" if you'd prefer.


There are advantages to x86. There are also disadvantages. You can rarely add a feature without sacrificing something else.


Consider resistive vs capacitive touch screens. People keep saying it should have had a capacitive screen so we could take advantage of multitouch. Capacitive touch screens may make multitouch easy, but you lose pressure sensitivity, you lose subpixel accuracy, you lose the ability to grab anything at hand and use it as a pointer.
 
Magnetometer – I think a few smartphones have it. Only useful in addition to a GPS module and/or an accelerometer. Makes more sense in a GPS/compass USB dongle than onboard.
We do have a Hall sensor. It is used to detect whether the lid is closed, but AFAIK you can directly access it for your own needs.
 
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