We all know what it CAN do

[PandaCrazy]

Capacitive touch screens may make multitouch easy, but you lose pressure sensitivity, you lose subpixel accuracy, you lose the ability to grab anything at hand and use it as a pointer.


Pressure sensitive..Does that mean it could be used as a scale?? or does a g/oz scale belong in this CAN'T DO forum.


At the launch of this openpandora project I was turned off slightly by the lack of accelerometer, but those are only good for racing games and leveling a picture. I wouldnt want my pandora to be a phone. But one thing it CANNOT do is play ps1 games with shoulder buttons :angry: I wish it had analog shoulder buttons for racing games.(like R2, L2 on ps3)

 

[SteveInAustin]

I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but I've seen people with this weird conception that a sim card reader somehow magically makes things into cell phones. I just want to stress, that it doesn't. A far more important part of being a cell phone is the cellular modem, the actual radio component that lets your phone communicate with the network.

Do you think that's what people really mean when they ask for a sim card slot? That they just want the thing to read their sim cards? Because, that's not what I meant, and I even said so. Yes, of course we want the thing to have a full cell phone chipset so that it can make real cell phone calls, not just the ability to read sim cards. Geez, think.


- Steve

 

[SteveInAustin]

Wow, a lot of people here are very defensive about their Pandora console. Haha. I guess that's to be expected. Passions run high here for this thing. Whenever someone points out something that it would be nice to have, a bunch of people try to dismiss it as heresy. It's either marginalized as something that's unnecessary or rejected as not something a gaming console *should* do (never mind the fact that Pandora isn't just a gaming console).


Meh. The Pandora Team will ultimately decide what to build into their device in the future, if that's something they plan on doing. I was just listing things that I saw other gadgets doing already which would be nice to have on Pandora. Maybe not all of those things, but some would be nice to have.


- Steve

 

[WizardStan]

Pressure sensitive..Does that mean it could be used as a scale?? or does a g/oz scale belong in this CAN'T DO forum.

I think that level of accuracy would fall in the can't pile. The screen on the Pandora has an estimated 16 levels of pressure sensitivity, not enough for any sort of scale, and it quickly goes from 0 to 16 over just a gram or two of pressure. Or would that be ounce of pressure? Whatever, I'm not a sciencologist.


So actually, I guess you could in theory use it as a sub gram scale. It'd be really really hard to calibrate though since pressure measurement also relies on surface area of whatever is touching it.

Do you think that's what people really mean when they ask for a sim card slot? That they just want the thing to read their sim cards? Because, that's not what I meant, and I even said so. Yes, of course we want the thing to have a full cell phone chipset so that it can make real cell phone calls, not just the ability to read sim cards. Geez, think.

He was just clarifying because, again, tradeoffs. You can't just slap a modem in there and have it be a phone either. There's licenses, testing, extra costs, not to mention space limitations and band considerations. Personally I wouldn't have bought the Pandora if it had had a phone in it, and many others here have expressed similar feelings. This isn't a free feature like USB and TV out, it would have required a substantial cost that I have no interest in paying for a feature I wouldn't have used. There's a reason why phones of similar specs to the Pandora are sold for $500+ out of contract.


That's not to say you aren't technically right: it is something it can't do out of the box. I simply disagree (as do many others) that it is something that it should be able to do out of the box. If you want a phone it can become one, however, as there are USB sticks that can add voice and data to any computer with a USB port.

Meh. The Pandora Team will ultimately decide what to build into their device in the future, if that's something they plan on doing. I was just listing things that I saw other gadgets doing already which would be nice to have on Pandora. Maybe not all of those things, but some would be nice to have.

Again, topic is "what can't it do". You keep mentioning things that it actually can do (give or take), even if it requires a generic add on.

 

[SteveInAustin]

Again, topic is "what can't it do". You keep mentioning things that it actually can do (give or take), even if it requires a generic add on.

Most of what I listed can not be done by simply plugging in an add-on peripheral. I counted a total of 4 things I mentioned which could reasonably be done with an add-on peripheral (although not very well). I counted 12 things which could not.


See, this is the defensiveness and dismissiveness I mentioned before.


- Steve

 

[SNESFAN]

Wow, a lot of people here are very defensive about their Pandora console. Haha. I guess that's to be expected. Passions run high here for this thing. Whenever someone points out something that it would be nice to have, a bunch of people try to dismiss it as heresy. It's either marginalized as something that's unnecessary or rejected as not something a gaming console *should* do (never mind the fact that Pandora isn't just a gaming console).


Meh. The Pandora Team will ultimately decide what to build into their device in the future, if that's something they plan on doing. I was just listing things that I saw other gadgets doing already which would be nice to have on Pandora. Maybe not all of those things, but some would be nice to have.


- Steve

Yea... I've been here since the beginning and watched the pandora create an almost cult-like following. Some feel the pandora is the absolute perfect device with zero conceptual flaws. It's hard to argue actual physical manufacturing flaws that you can actually see. But those could be shrugged off as "will be corrected" but the device by design is infallible.


the things I've noticed people feel no other logical options exist are the following topics


-resistive touch screen over capacitive touch


-full sd over any other size/format


-angstrom over any other distro


-Arm (more specifically this particular OMAP TI processor)over any other arch or manufacturer


(if you want a good troll just start a topic on any one of these subjects)


and there's some other topics I'm missing, but I notice people use the argument that whatever topic has been discussed to death but those discussions were probably interjected by those same people that put in their almost holy war response to those topics. They feel that the pandora was created as a product of those discussions. The technological equivalent to the "holy grail" if you will.


the wait for this handheld might actually be considered the quest for the holy grail.

 

[PandaCrazy]

It can not charge wirelessly on one of those wireless charging mats. Not a big deal though because nothing can.

 

[WizardStan]

Most of what I listed can not be done by simply plugging in an add-on peripheral. I counted a total of 4 things I mentioned which could reasonably be done with an add-on peripheral (although not very well). I counted 12 things which could not.


See, this is the defensiveness and dismissiveness I mentioned before.

From your original suggestion:

- HDMI port
- GPS


- Cell phone sim card slot


- Front and/or rear facing cameras


- Wifi 802.11n


- WiMax


- Magnetometer (compass)


- 3 axis accelerometer

Can all be added with USB. That's 8.

- True "instant on"
- Skype (audio, but video would be nice too)

Kind of exist in the form of low power mode and Ekiga, and even Skype can potentially be "borrowed" from the N900.


Only

- 3D viewing
- USB 3.0


- Multi-touch capacitive touch screen


- 1GHz CPU before overclocking and without fan


- An x86 compatibility mode for running Windows apps.


- Or a built-in x86 processor (like VIA Nano) in addition to or instead of the ARM processor. (But I should mention that I'm biased, since I help design the VIA Nano x86 processor).

are things that really are outside its power, but they're still not really "things it can't do" so much as "things it doesn't have" by design. Back to my previously revised example, it's like arguing that the XBOX360 should have had some kind of PS3 compatibility mode: yeah, it'd be awesome if you could play both systems on a single console, but can you imagine how much engineering and cost would go into such a device?


I'm not trying to be dismissive, but it sounds like you're trying to have a "what should the next Pandora have" when the rest of the discussion is still on "what can't the current one do", or at least trying to when not discussing toasters anyway.


3D viewing might actually be a fair shake: it's something that could be handled in software with active sync glasses, but the Pandora probably lacks the power to render two scenes and vsync flip between the two that quickly. You get a single second of lag in the CPU and you lose sync, or lose the illusion at least.


Incidentally, 1Ghz before overclocking without fan? ARM isn't x86, some lucky souls can overclock just above 1Ghz and the OMAP barely creeps up a few degrees, and recent Snapdragon and other 1Ghz+ ARM chips don't need a cooling fan either. Getting that in a future iteration of the Pandora will not be any problem at all.

 

[SNESFAN]

It can not charge wirelessly on one of those wireless charging mats. Not a big deal though because nothing can.

well technically it *could* but it's ugly


EDIT: and somewhat pointless


http://www.powermat.com/us/home-and-office-mat.html


http://www.locoav.com/powermat-wii-psp-wireless-charger-price-100-us-dollars.html

Sony PSP Tip

pandora accepts the standard psp charger plug and voltage

 

[Exophase]

the things I've noticed people feel no other logical options exist are the following topics
-resistive touch screen over capacitive touch


-full sd over any other size/format


-angstrom over any other distro


-Arm (more specifically this particular OMAP TI processor)over any other arch or manufacturer

You could argue all of these things and will find pros and cons and compromises, depending on what your preferences are. What you can't really argue is that by late 2010 standards OMAP3530 is not cutting edge. Tegra 2 being out in tablets now is really about the final nail in that one, that's a full generation ahead of what Pandora has. It's probably not a great choice given other metrics as well, such as perf/W, perf/mm, or perf/$. For instance, cheapest OMAP3530 is $32 for 600MHz and $50.05 for 720MHz, while a DM3730 is only $25.60 for 800MHz and $30.75 for 1GHz. You also get double the L1 cache, twice the GPU performance, and something like 40% more DSP clock. The board revisions would be minimal, or possibly none (http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OMAP35x_To_AM37x_Hardware_Migration_Guide#Hardware_Migration); save with the software changes if any - it's probably enough to justify savings thousands on batch two for a better SoC that'll sell more Pandoras.


But I doubt OP would go for this, because those still waiting on their orders for the current SoC would start rioting.

 

[PandaCrazy]

well technically it *could* but it's ugly


EDIT: and somewhat pointless


http://www.powermat.com/us/home-and-office-mat.html


http://www.locoav.com/powermat-wii-psp-wireless-charger-price-100-us-dollars.html

Sony PSP Tip

pandora accepts the standard psp charger plug and voltage

well.... I see a wire attached to that psp! would work but just as easy with a usb and a computer that is probably sitting right next to that powermat.

 

[PandaCrazy]

So, is the conclusion that there is nothing the Pandora can not do, Provided the hardware included and the hardware available for add-on's. And excluding the things Rosie, the Jetsons maid, can do?

 

[Prometheus]

And excluding the things Rosie, the Jetsons maid, can do?

All she did was dust fake fruit, anyway!

 

[captain_coconut]

The pandora can not run pcsx natively.

 

[SNESFAN]

So, is the conclusion that there is nothing the Pandora can not do, Provided the hardware included and the hardware available for add-on's. And excluding the things Rosie, the Jetsons maid, can do?

the conclusion is this

the pandora is capable of doing, what the hardware that was included with the pandora, is capable of doing

that might be a whole lot, but it's not endless, the bottleneck is definitely the software, not the hardware. Throwing more hardware at a software title might get things to run more smoothly and offer for more options, but I'd be willing to bet any software title out there has plenty of room to be optimized before the hardware becomes the bottleneck.


EDIT: not saying increasing hardware doesn't open the doors to what software titles would work better, throwing hardware at a piece of software is like throwing money at a project. It works, but at what cost?


I suggest we continue to name funny things that no computer regardless of specs and speed is capable of doing.

well.... I see a wire attached to that psp! would work but just as easy with a usb and a computer that is probably sitting right next to that powermat.

well that's what they're selling as "wireless charging" don't shoot the messenger


but that's when you break out a dremmel and a hot glue gun and show us what you're made of

 

[SteveInAustin]

Can all be added with USB. That's 8.

Yeah, I count these 4 in my list of things which can reasonably be done through add-on peripherals:


- GPS


- Wifi N


- WiMax


- Video cameras


The rest are not reasonably resolved by using add-on peripherals. And we can discuss why if you'd like:


- HDMI port


- Cell phone


- USB 3.0


- Multi-touch capacitive touch screen


- 3D viewing


- 3 axis accelerometer


- Magnetometer (compass)


- True "instant on"


- 1GHz CPU before overclocking and without fan


- Skype (audio, but video would be nice too)


- An x86 compatibility mode for running Windows apps.


- Or a built-in x86 processor

Kind of exist in the form of low power mode and Ekiga, and even Skype can potentially be "borrowed" from the N900.

Ekiga is not Skype, and it's not compatible with Skype.


And "instant on" is not what Pandora does. Pandora still requires a lengthy boot-up every time you turn it on. There is an idle/sleep mode you can place it in, the same as laptops. But sleep mode is not the same as a cold start, instant on. Why wait any longer than a second or two for you to be back up and running?

I'm not trying to be dismissive, but it sounds like you're trying to have a "what should the next Pandora have" when the rest of the discussion is still on "what can't the current one do", or at least trying to when not discussing toasters anyway.

My original list simply looks at what's out there right now with gadgets in general and says this is what Pandora can't do. But the discussion has blended naturally into what the next generation of Pandora might want to adopt. I'm not saying that the next Pandora should have all those capabilities. I am saying that some would be nice to have.

3D viewing might actually be a fair shake: it's something that could be handled in software with active sync glasses, but the Pandora probably lacks the power to render two scenes and vsync flip between the two that quickly. You get a single second of lag in the CPU and you lose sync, or lose the illusion at least.

Active sync glasses are kind of impractical. I much prefer the Nintendo 3DS screen idea. Very simple idea, and no glasses needed. But it would probably violate international patent agreements. And CPU shouldn't be what's used to process graphics. That's best left up to a stand-alone graphics core.

Incidentally, 1Ghz before overclocking without fan? ARM isn't x86, some lucky souls can overclock just above 1Ghz and the OMAP barely creeps up a few degrees, and recent Snapdragon and other 1Ghz+ ARM chips don't need a cooling fan either. Getting that in a future iteration of the Pandora will not be any problem at all.

Yes, I'm sure the future will kick it over the 1GHz threshold. But by then, I'll want 1.5GHz instead. See, the measuring stick changes as time goes on. The 1GHz number is right now. And Pandora does just 600MHz without overclocking, right?


- Steve

 

[DaMummy]

after reading this thread, i have decided that the pandora is missing 2 screens so it can emulate NDS

 

[- Theo -]

It can't make you a better person.


It can't make someone love you.


I think these are two of its biggest flaws, but I might buy it anyway if the Wi-Fi and battery issues are cleared up.

I'll love whoever give me one.

 

[Letalis Sonus]

True "instant on"

There is no thing like "true instant-on", search for it, it has been discussed often enough. All the devices form you would thought they have it simply use a suspend mode, which is already supported by the Pandora as can be seen on at least one of EDs vids. It just doesn't reach the possible efficiency, yet.

 

[Exophase]

The rest are not reasonably resolved by using add-on peripherals. And we can discuss why if you'd like:

Indeed, I would like to know why you can't add an accelerometer, magnetometer, and cell phone with add-on peripherals.

And CPU shouldn't be what's used to process graphics. That's best left up to a stand-alone graphics core.

What about the 3DS display do you think is processed by the CPU?

Yes, I'm sure the future will kick it over the 1GHz threshold. But by then, I'll want 1.5GHz instead. See, the measuring stick changes as time goes on. The 1GHz number is right now. And Pandora does just 600MHz without overclocking, right?

It's just 600MHz that the manufacturer stands behind, but "overclocking" can be a bit of an abstract concept. For instance, GP32 normally operated at 66MHz, but I believe every one of them could do 133MHz - likewise for GP2X at 200MHz vs 240MHz, and Wiz for something much higher than 533MHz. I believe there's no knowledge of a Pandora that can't get to 750MHz w/o going past OPP3, and all should be able to operate at OPP5 for some substantial length of time (thousands of hours) so can probably get > 800MHz. This might change with future binning though.


But the memory clock and SGX at least (if not the DSP) are at hard limits of 166MHz and 110MHz respectively. Moving to a better 45nm TI part would alleviate this.