Transfers... Tranzfers..

[todd]

You don't preorder a non-existing, not yet finished product with protection. That is incompatible terms.
...
In something like this - preordering a nonexisting item from an enthusiast operation - there is always the chance that it'll all come to nothing. That is always the risk. That is why the banks won't do the CC thing (and they really shouldn't) - this risk is something you, the preorderer, has to take.

Well spoken.

Thank you too, for relating that back to the credit card companies: of course they don't want to be on the hook for this. That certainly seems a likely explanation for these bizarro games they're playing with us.

MS & Apple are all about consumer protection. "Trusted computing", DRM, bricked iPhones, "Windows Genuine Advantage"... all in a shiny case that comes in a pretty box. If that's your thing. Guaranteed delivery date!

I'm excited about the OpenPandora as an alternative to a frighteningly homogeneous ecosystem of mega-corp controlled computers and, especially, mobile hardware. I'm excited by the thought that OpenPandora the company, or a spiritual descendant thereof, could challenge the status-quo of corporate interests and provide the hardware (and the privacy) that many of us desire. I want to support the OpenPandora simply for political and philosophical reasons -- even if the hardware was to turn out lousy and there never was a second batch.

If no good alternatives show up, I guess a $40 EFT fee will be, for me, part of the cost of supporting this new and somewhat counter-cultural venture. It's obvious the dev's had had more than their fair share of unexpected costs and problems arising.

--Todd

 

[Pinballwzd]

+1

 

[Alpha2]

I dont understand why people keep thinking they HAVE to go with the transfer.

Just wait, Wait until the units are built and THEN pay, that way you'll get it within the 30 days. it's not the second batch it's simply waiting until the production has gotten to a point where the CC orders wont be an issue anymore.

 

[lobski]

Wow, this thread grew...

Any new news on Credit Card orders?

And no, I won't do a bank transfer.

Too many Bank Transfer Elitists in this thread imo.

 

[fischju2000]

It's hardly well spoken, Moxie is wrong on just about every count.

Sure, almost everybody that ordered was following the developement closely and knew what they were getting into, but plenty of people didn't. Anybody could pre-order one. (In fact I found out about it going on sale through an Engadget post, despite having followed the major project milestones)

CC orders were open for good reason, nobody can fault the team or the pre-orderer for the credit crash. Credit cards are the only option for many people. I for instance, don't have 330 extra dollars sitting around with no use. Using an online site and paying them with a credit card sounds great, but these transactions are listed as "cash advances" and have enormous (~20%) APRs compared to the relatively low purchase (~4%) APR. Many people can't afford it, especially now.

Trying to make everybody order with bank transfer or a cheque at the beginning would have been an utterly stupid thing to do. Not only would it have absolutely trashed the team's rep, but only a couple thousand people (if that) would have ordered one.

Nobody knew this was going to happen in the beginning.

 

[Daryoon]

Chip's suggestion is, in a more politically correct way, saying "If you don't want to do a bank transfer, F-OFF, we don't need to make you one."
No, my suggestion is that if it is impossible to take CC orders, we should stop trying to find increasingly sketchy solutions and face the fact that it is impossible to take CC orders at this time. If you think about it for half a minute, it is obvious that the more Pandoras we can sell, the better. If there were any way to take CC orders now, we would. We've already tried several options, and all of them have fallen through.

You're too nervous to use a bank transfer? Then don't. We're not trying to force anybody to use transfers, it's just that transfers are the only way we can accept payment at this time. If that's a problem, then wait and order a Pandora when they're in stock. We'd love to make one for you now, but if you are not able to use a payment method that we are able to accept, then you'll have to wait a bit. It's that simple.


Just out of curiosity, does that mean OP is now admitting it does not have the funding to make these things without preorder money? Because that is 100% contrary to what has been broadcast to date.

By the way, when you email Pandora directly THEIR official rep continues to say that we will get an email for cc ordering, not to worry. Why is that?

Also, even if I wanted to do a bank transfer, I have NEVER received an email offering that. NEVER. So how can you state that everyone that WOULD order via bank transfer already has?

 

[Vorporeal]

Chip's suggestion is, in a more politically correct way, saying "If you don't want to do a bank transfer, F-OFF, we don't need to make you one."
No, my suggestion is that if it is impossible to take CC orders, we should stop trying to find increasingly sketchy solutions and face the fact that it is impossible to take CC orders at this time. If you think about it for half a minute, it is obvious that the more Pandoras we can sell, the better. If there were any way to take CC orders now, we would. We've already tried several options, and all of them have fallen through.

You're too nervous to use a bank transfer? Then don't. We're not trying to force anybody to use transfers, it's just that transfers are the only way we can accept payment at this time. If that's a problem, then wait and order a Pandora when they're in stock. We'd love to make one for you now, but if you are not able to use a payment method that we are able to accept, then you'll have to wait a bit. It's that simple.


I'm not trying to take this out of context or anything of the sort, but I've got one question. Assuming this is the path taken by the devs, what ends up happening to the people who preordered but can't/won't make a bank transfer? Do they end up paying what they would have paid had they reordered with a transfer? Do they get a chance to order a Pandora once they are in stock before the "general public" is allowed to purchase one?

 

[Alpha2]

that would seem the logical thing but no one here seems to see that.

 

[MDave]

I take it as; bank transfers now, then sometime during the period they are sent out (after say the first 1000 or whatever it is that people have paid by transfer already) CC reorders are reopened because it's safe to accept them then for the pandora team?

 

[sixstringmonk]

I'm not trying to take this out of context or anything of the sort, but I've got one question. Assuming this is the path taken by the devs, what ends up happening to the people who preordered but can't/won't make a bank transfer? Do they end up paying what they would have paid had they reordered with a transfer? Do they get a chance to order a Pandora once they are in stock before the "general public" is allowed to purchase one?



Good question. I'd like to know that as well.

 

[daffy]

The first I heard about CC orders not being accepted in the first batch was today in this thread. An email would have been nice.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*Sniff* Get it? The guy expects reasonable simple and basic communication.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That's a good one.

 

[Consequence_9]

I'd just like to know if those who already re-ordered with google-checkout are in the clear.

 

[mali]

Just out of curiosity, does that mean OP is now admitting it does not have the funding to make these things without preorder money? Because that is 100% contrary to what has been broadcast to date.

you should have given all the info you could, the main one being how many more people still need to pay for there pre-order.
How many people need to preorder? None. We don't need money from anybody else to make Pandoras for those who have already paid. I'm trying to convince Craig to call off additional preorders entirely and just make units for the existing orders. Obviously no CC merchant system is willing to sell preorders, and anybody who is willing to pay via bank transfer has already done so. We'd like to be able to provide a reorder option for everybody who ordered originally, but obviously that just isn't possible.

Those who are not comfortable with a bank transfer are welcome to wait until we have Pandoras in stock and can accept normal CC orders.

I'd just like to know if those who already re-ordered with google-checkout are in the clear.

I think so.

 

[Vorporeal]

Hmm... Seeing as Chip is in the USA, what would be the possibility of Americans wire-transferring money to Chip (as domestic transfers are cheaper), then Chip doing a batch wire-transfer to GBAX? Might alleviate some of the hesitation us Americans are having at the 40 dollar fees most banks charge for a wire transfer. If everyone adds in a dollar to the amount that they wire, it should cover the cost of Chip wiring all of that money to Craig.

(Just trying to think of more possibilities.)

EDIT: Or maybe Craig could set up an account at an American bank? We could all wire funds there domestically, then Craig could wire those funds to himself? Maybe that wouldn't even be necessary, as (IIRC) some part of the sourcing or production occurs in the States, and Craig might be able to just pay out of that account and save some money on exchange rates?

 

[hells_dark]

I take it as; bank transfers now, then sometime during the period they are sent out (after say the first 1000 or whatever it is that people have paid by transfer already) CC reorders are reopened because it's safe to accept them then for the pandora team?

That would be fine, but that's not what i understood.
If your vision is right, i don't even see the problem..

 

[gibberish]

this is getting ridiculous. as much as i want this thing to succeed, if we havent had a proper explanation and if things havent moved forward significantly in 1 weeks time im getting my refund. i know its a small team but the communication between them and us is absolutely appauling.

 

[NickLoTurco]

It would seem that they don't in fact have the money to start production and we may have been lied to. Can't help but wonder if the delays have been lies aswell and we're being blagged, I'm good at blagging and I can spot it a mile off. Sorry if I keep posting negative comments on here but it's getting me down how the communication seems to be dwindling away.

 

[lobski]

So, what happens to us credit card guys?

 

[weirdocollector]

You don't preorder a non-existing, not yet finished product with protection. That is incompatible terms.
...
In something like this - preordering a nonexisting item from an enthusiast operation - there is always the chance that it'll all come to nothing. That is always the risk. That is why the banks won't do the CC thing (and they really shouldn't) - this risk is something you, the preorderer, has to take.

Well spoken.

Thank you too, for relating that back to the credit card companies: of course they don't want to be on the hook for this. That certainly seems a likely explanation for these bizarro games they're playing with us.

MS & Apple are all about consumer protection. "Trusted computing", DRM, bricked iPhones, "Windows Genuine Advantage"... all in a shiny case that comes in a pretty box. If that's your thing. Guaranteed delivery date!

I'm excited about the OpenPandora as an alternative to a frighteningly homogeneous ecosystem of mega-corp controlled computers and, especially, mobile hardware. I'm excited by the thought that OpenPandora the company, or a spiritual descendant thereof, could challenge the status-quo of corporate interests and provide the hardware (and the privacy) that many of us desire. I want to support the OpenPandora simply for political and philosophical reasons -- even if the hardware was to turn out lousy and there never was a second batch.

If no good alternatives show up, I guess a $40 EFT fee will be, for me, part of the cost of supporting this new and somewhat counter-cultural venture. It's obvious the dev's had had more than their fair share of unexpected costs and problems arising.

--Todd


Couldn't have said it better...

 

[Asmo]

They refunded the first time didn't they?

Actually no they didn't, it's been their stated claim all along that it was the bank that did the refunds without any input or direction from OP.

If I cancel, it won't be soley because of OpenPandora's - rather odd - behaviour, it will be because of the apparent cheerleading accompanying them.

^ +1000!

i'm seriously wondering how you americans make deals over the internet. can you pay person to person with credit cards???

Of course you can - with PayPal for one, and there are other options.

@truekaiser: there is no contract any longer between OP ltd and someone who has been refunded. The refund effectively cancelled that contract. For your new contract, you cannot complain about lack of payment method.





Actually that's not strictly the case - by OP's own statements to that effect, the refunds were not at their behest, and the original terms of sale (ie 'contract' of sale) cannot be terminated by a third party. Subsequent communications about 'keeping your place in line' and not losing the money lost in the Forex fiasco pretty much imply that the original 'contract' is still in place. Unless the buyer withdraws.