Transfers... Tranzfers..

[MDave]

you should have given all the info you could, the main one being how many more people still need to pay for there pre-order.
How many people need to preorder? None. We don't need money from anybody else to make Pandoras for those who have already paid. I'm trying to convince Craig to call off additional preorders entirely and just make units for the existing orders. Obviously no CC merchant system is willing to sell preorders, and anybody who is willing to pay via bank transfer has already done so. We'd like to be able to provide a reorder option for everybody who ordered originally, but obviously that just isn't possible.

Those who are not comfortable with a bank transfer are welcome to wait until we have Pandoras in stock and can accept normal CC orders.

That is the best idea I've heard yet concerning this issue. Make sure it gets heard well enough!

 

[Username]

+1 for gift certificates. This is by far the best and most productive idea so far.

 

[DCillusion]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but Best Buy, Fry's, even Lik-Sang back in the day, allows the purchaser of a Gift Card to return it for a refund.

How is this not safe form of payment?

You can go to your bank & say, "I bought this Gift Card, & the store won't allow me to return it."

& if no money is actually needed at this point, then it really just becomes a "Sorry Credit Card buyers, but this is how you can secure a Pandora right now."

 

[Daryoon]

I've posted that FAQ on the unofficial blog, as it's one of the only useful bits of information from this thread.

You shouldn't post a faq that you don't know is accurate. You are assuming his responses (like, cc people can just reorder with cc closer to delivery) are accurate when some of those things are not confirmed as accurate.

We all continue to wait for the simple answer to this question: Why do they need the preorder money NOW when they claimed they had funds to complete the project without the preorder funds? Why not just finish making the things and let us order within 30 days of delivery?

you should have given all the info you could, the main one being how many more people still need to pay for there pre-order.
How many people need to preorder? None. We don't need money from anybody else to make Pandoras for those who have already paid. I'm trying to convince Craig to call off additional preorders entirely and just make units for the existing orders. Obviously no CC merchant system is willing to sell preorders, and anybody who is willing to pay via bank transfer has already done so. We'd like to be able to provide a reorder option for everybody who ordered originally, but obviously that just isn't possible.

Those who are not comfortable with a bank transfer are welcome to wait until we have Pandoras in stock and can accept normal CC orders.

So, fine, do this. By the way, who do I contact to get the money I lost on the forced refund? Remember, the whole argument before was that I would get my Pandora in Q and that the loss was meaningless because my reorder (for a first batch unit, not a later batch unit) would be at the same price. If I now have to wait, you are once again changing the terms of the game.

So, should I just write Jacquelyn to get my FULL refund?

I agree, I think we should give up on the pre-order idea, however, I would like to be able to order as soon as the units are made (that being an order, not a pre-order) and maybe somehow get priority on my order due to having originally pre-ordered.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, his post suggests that they would make the units that have been paid for ... i.e. the first batch would not include one for you to order (notwithstanding the fact that they allowed you to preorder and then, perhaps, force refunded you at less). There can't be priority on something that won't be built for this round.

Chip's suggestion is, in a more politically correct way, saying "If you don't want to do a bank transfer, F-OFF, we don't need to make you one." That is a pretty bad position to take considering THEY solicited the preorders. No matter whether it is the Bank's fault or not, they should be responsible for the forced refund (it was THEIR bank, not my bank that was the problem), etc.

 

[jake37]

@Daryoon:

Hey, keep cool. Chip's only talking about delaying CC orders until enough units are ready to ship. I think that's just as good a solution as giving out gift certificates or something of that style.

I really think we should take it easy, as long as the project's safely funded and production continues. When/how we order/pay for our dream console shouldn't be of that much concern, really. Especially since the "do I keep my place in the line" question has been answered enough times.

I'm honestly amazed at how much this has stirred almost everybody. Chip, thanks for posting here! I really wish there was more from Craig, though...

 

[Perky_Goth]

1. Giving me back part of my money - I did not sign up for investing in foreign exchange markets. I bought a product.

Yeah, I should have showed more comprehension here. It's not that I don't understand, it's just that that would have happened the same way if the whole thing got canceled. It is not their fault that the UK economy is crappy, and it's your fault, IMHO, for not assuming that it was a possibility when you ordered. AFAIK, it's a Visa problem.

@Daryoon et al:

What happens if you preorder a game at a foreign Amazon and it gets canned? Do they cover exchange rate losses? I doubt it.
I AM sorry people lost money. I lost too, and I wouldn't have if I only reordered now. But I knew the risks going in. If you ignored them, well... can't say I feel sorry about that.

 

[hells_dark]

Hum..
At this point i'll think again about transfers instead of cc, when i will see a complete pandora and some good news..

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

if you need me to reorder with a service that costs 5$, I'm going to pay 5$ less to you, simple as that. (no dumb extra CD in the package is gonna make up for that 5 dollars, I'm sorry)

my order via visa credit card went smoothly, the refund was also flawless (the money difference is right, although it sounds bad). but I really want to reorder with my working CC again (if paypal and google checkout aren't viable options), you just need to start another bank account.

 

[dinglebery]

1. Giving me back part of my money - I did not sign up for investing in foreign exchange markets. I bought a product.

Yeah, I should have showed more comprehension here. It's not that I don't understand, it's just that that would have happened the same way if the whole thing got canceled. It is not their fault that the UK economy is crappy, and it's your fault, IMHO, for not assuming that it was a possibility when you ordered. AFAIK, it's a Visa problem.

@Daryoon et al:

What happens if you preorder a game at a foreign Amazon and it gets canned? Do they cover exchange rate losses? I doubt it.
I AM sorry people lost money. I lost too, and I wouldn't have if I only reordered now. But I knew the risks going in. If you ignored them, well... can't say I feel sorry about that.



@Perky_Goth actually yes they do that's why we use Visa :> your refunded the rate AT the time of purchase .. not at the time of refund .. checked into that during the last debacle. furthermore if there is a discrepancy you can initiate a charge back getting full refund minus processing fees. witch we were all asked against during the first mess since it would cause further problems for OP.

personally if it comes to it i dont mind waiting for production to start if i either get the money i lost on the refund back or a voucher/email whatever that i can purchase my P at the refunded price once the times right .. or maybe something else can be worked out but international transfer with my bank is not an option .. its to damn expensive .. so unless someones eating the loss the second time around its not going to happen there.

 

[Perky_Goth]

@Perky_Goth actually yes they do that's why we use Visa :> your refunded the rate AT the time of purchase .. not at the time of refund .. checked into that during the last debacle. furthermore if there is a discrepancy you can initiate a charge back getting full refund minus processing fees. witch we were all asked against during the first mess since it would cause further problems for OP.

Then forget I said anything. But please do try to be sympathetic and non-confrontational, unless you really think they're a scam.

 

[mraellis]

+1 for gift certificates. This is by far the best and most productive idea so far.

+1 from me to. Great idea.

 

[Chip]

Chip's suggestion is, in a more politically correct way, saying "If you don't want to do a bank transfer, F-OFF, we don't need to make you one."
No, my suggestion is that if it is impossible to take CC orders, we should stop trying to find increasingly sketchy solutions and face the fact that it is impossible to take CC orders at this time. If you think about it for half a minute, it is obvious that the more Pandoras we can sell, the better. If there were any way to take CC orders now, we would. We've already tried several options, and all of them have fallen through.

You're too nervous to use a bank transfer? Then don't. We're not trying to force anybody to use transfers, it's just that transfers are the only way we can accept payment at this time. If that's a problem, then wait and order a Pandora when they're in stock. We'd love to make one for you now, but if you are not able to use a payment method that we are able to accept, then you'll have to wait a bit. It's that simple.

 

[hells_dark]

So anybody wanting order by CC should .. wait for the 2nd batch... ?

 

[Prometheus]

it's just that transfers are the only way we can accept payment at this time.

I hope you don't mind me adding something here, Chip, but I sent a cheque, myself. I asked beforehand and they said that was fine, then provided the necessary info.

 

[Chip]

So anybody wanting order by CC should .. wait for the 2nd batch... ?
At this point, I don't see any reasonable alternative.

 

[Alpha2]

I just asked this myself. Please provide the necessary info and I will happily send a Check in the amount I was refunded.

They arent saying wait for the second batch to order, that's just silly to say, because if no one is able to buy the first batch there can't even BE a second batch.

I've never done a bank transfer before ever in my life, I know nothing about them, so no I'm not going to risk using some company I've never heard of, giving anyone access to my money and hoping that it goes okay. I have no problem believing in the project but the project is getting more and more desperate to find ways to receive the money for the work and they're suggesting things not everyone is comfortable with. I'm not going to blame them for it, they just want to see that everyone gets their product but this particular company is not one many care to trust and frankly not one everyone can even use anyway since from the sound of it that only take European busniess anyway.

Everyone here simply wants to put the money in their hand and wait for the product to arrive, because the more we play with these conversion rates and the questions of how much we're really going to end up paying the more our heads spin. We just want to do it and step back and wait for the product we paid for, not calculate how much money we have to spend, hope not to get hit with mysterious rate conversion fees, or hope some transfer company we've never heard of is reputable. We can trust Openpandora until the cows come home but I dont know dick about bank transfers or the companies the claim to facilitate them.

So yes, please send me the info about where to mail a check and I'll send it right out on monday. Because I trust Craig and ED and I just want this nonsense about giving you the money for the product you're making to be as simple as possible.

 

[peca]

Thanks to gods, I have reordered via bank transfer. It coast as (me and my friend, as we pay together for two Pandoras, so we share pay-fee and postage) only 4 beers more (about €3.6 / $4.8).

EDIT: Actually, it is more common way in my country (Czech) use direct bank transfer (but international transfers are quite expensive), check like system (pay on post office and post office send money to bank account or directly to addressee hands) or pay when delivery (to delivery company that send money to sender). Pay by credit cards not so often used as I can see here. Visa or Masters are commonly used just for pay on store, restaurant, gas station and get money from cash dispenser (cashomat/bankomat).

 

[fischju2000]

Damn.......

Well does tranzfers.com work US to UK? There is conflicting information. And they don't accept CCs for payment? That's out....

Have the xoom.com payments come in fine?

 

[Esn]

Thank you for the FAQ, but there also needs to be an FAQ about the payment systems, because there seems to be geographical culture shock.

As far as I can make out, this is the situation (correct me if I'm wrong):

BANK TRANSFERS:

-In the continental EU countries, bank transfers are secure, inexpensive, and the most common form of payment both for bill payments and for preorders

-In Australia, bank transfers are secure and common only within Australia, largely for things like gas bills

-In the UK, bank transfers are somewhere between the EU and US situation....

-In the US and Canada, international bank transfers are completely insecure and expensive; in fact, only scam artists use them (to clarify: they are secure in that the money goes to the account # you specify, but in the US/Canada the banks do not get involved beyond that; in the EU, they guarantee your transaction)


CHEQUES:

-In the US and Canada, cheques are common and secure

-In the EU, cheques are so insecure that they're outlawed

CREDIT CARDS:

-In the US and Canada, credit cards are used for almost all online transactions, particularly international ones

-In the continental EU, credit cards are considered to be worse (or at least no better) than bank transfers and not used so often


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is that all true, or have I misunderstood something?

 

[stustaff]

So chip just stated some good info can someone please correct me if i'm wrong?

OP can only now accept payment via bank transfer.

If you cant, are no willing to do bank transfer you will have to wait for 2nd batch

We're not trying to force anybody to use transfers, it's just that transfers are the only way we can accept payment at this time. If that's a problem, then wait and order a Pandora when they're in stock. We'd love to make one for you now, but if you are not able to use a payment method that we are able to accept, then you'll have to wait a bit. It's that simple.

Have to say i'm gutted at that news, think its a real shame.

Couple of other things:-
- Those wanting the security of CC arent wanting to do so because they dont trust OP, things can happen however that are out of their control! meaning pandoras never get made. CC provides security against that which for some people is a lot of money.

- The whole 'its a project you knew what you were getting into etc' argument, Did we really actually I got an email from a friend telling me about openpandora.org went on there and pre-ordered and no where did I see a notice a statement saying that I was entering into anything other than paying money for a prouct that was going to be shipped to me.

I am getting close now to ordering via bank transfer what is stopping me at the moment is the poor comms by the OP team! a couple of days ago I was waiting for an email telling me how to pre order by CC, I now know thats not going to happen thanks to a single post by Craig in here. I was also told that we would be seeing a pandora actually working in a prototype CNC case taht was the final step before production...

I want to order! I want this great device! but damn they are making it hard for me to do it.

I have a love hate relationship at the moment