There Will Be 2 Consoles Xgp And Gpx2


DaveC

Internal Development
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
9,208
rabbits with hats posted on Jul 28 2005 at 07:48 PM said:
DaveC posted on Jul 28 2005 at 07:08 PM said:
Gp32 Model 1 FOREVER  :p

But gpx2 is Better!
Faster!
cooler!
and cheap(hopes)
Better? but it has no emulators to play

Faster? 40 MHz BFD

Cooler? I don't know I think they are both at room temperature ;)

Cheap? it is even cheaper if you keep your current GP32 and just buy and extra SMC, fill it with some new romz and pretend it is a new system.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Sep 7, 2003
Messages
1,626
Age
35
Location
UK
Website
Visit site
DaveC posted on Jul 29 2005 at 04:06 AM said:
rabbits with hats posted on Jul 28 2005 at 07:48 PM said:
DaveC posted on Jul 28 2005 at 07:08 PM said:
Gp32 Model 1 FOREVER :p

But gpx2 is Better!
Faster!
cooler!
and cheap(hopes)
Better? but it has no emulators to play

How do you know?

Faster? 40 MHz BFD
GP32 Overclocked significantly Vs stated stock speed of GPX2. Really fair.

Cooler? I don't know I think they are both at room temperature ;)
HAHAHAHAHA. You are so funny!!!

Cheap? it is even cheaper if you keep your current GP32 and just buy and extra SMC, fill it with some new romz and pretend it is a new system.
Yes but what if you have no GP32, a FLU or NLU. It is definitely cheap.

Stop lying, Stop being overly critical, and stop spamming.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

tengen

Still Fresh
Joined
Jul 18, 2005
Messages
63
DaveC posted on Jul 28 2005 at 09:06 PM said:
rabbits with hats posted on Jul 28 2005 at 07:48 PM said:
DaveC posted on Jul 28 2005 at 07:08 PM said:
Gp32 Model 1 FOREVER :p

But gpx2 is Better!
Faster!
cooler!
and cheap(hopes)
Better? but it has no emulators to play

Faster? 40 MHz BFD

Cooler? I don't know I think they are both at room temperature ;)

Cheap? it is even cheaper if you keep your current GP32 and just buy and extra SMC, fill it with some new romz and pretend it is a new system.
The Gpx2 is stronger, cheaper, and backwards compatible with all of the Gp32 emus
(according to what I read at gpx2.com) the Gp32 was good, but now we have a better version.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

kalthare

Still Fresh
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
21
Regarding the widescreen vs. 4:3 debate:

A game being "commercial" doesn't make it particularly suited to a widescreen format, nor does it being "new style".

There are a couple of types of games that would benefit from widescreen: the horizontal space-shooter, for one. You could see farther ahead of you, and the narrower display area doesn't hurt there because your movement is constrained to whatever the screen height is anyhow, and that would be taken into account during game design.

Another gametype that's widescreen-friendly is the scrolling fighter, like River City Ransom, Final Fight, that sort of thing. Again, you'd see more of what's up ahead, multiple players would have more room to maneuver, and frankly those games hardly ever use the full screen height anyway.

Something like a Sonic game, though, or a Mario game, or Megaman, or especially Diablo or something like that, can't majorly favour one screen direction over the other, since you're moving in all directions and enemies come from everywhere. A 16:9 format would be a very artificial constraint on your perception. They can design for that as well -- not have enemies attack you from above, say -- but that would detract from the game experience. Wouldn't work for Diablo anyway.

But "new style" to me means 3D, and I haven't mentioned that yet. To my mind, widescreen is even worse for 3D games than it is for any 2D games. For most I play, anyhow, no matter which way the camera is pointed, you're missing vital information if the screen is wide or letterboxed. (Sorry for not getting more specific on this point, but I'm tired. I might try later of someone wants me to.)

Basically what I'm saying is, widescreen is only good for things that are very horizontally laid out. If you have a choice between that and 4:3 for something interactive, 4:3 is almost always the right choice.

-- Kal.
 

kalthare

Still Fresh
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
21
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
982
Age
30
Location
Peterborough England
"hello,
Thank you for your nice comment on gpx2.
We are planning to make options to choose bigger ram.
What do you exactly mean "digital pad"?
And unfortunately Gpx2 will not run Gp32 software
Thank you again,,^^ "
 
M

Magus 86

Guest
It's not backwards compatible, but if you were keeping track of the 40 some page thread like I am, you'd know that they're getting someone to make emulators for it already. We don't know who's doing them, but they're hiring someone to do it, so I wouldn't worry about it. And besides, it has TWO processors, not just one. The 2nd one can be used as general purpose according to GamePark Holdings. They also said that when combined they can do more than you could do with a single processor whose speed = the sum of the two separate processors. Even if that's not the case, 200 is its stock mhz, not its overclocked mhz... GP32 only gets 166 if it's overclocked, it's over 50% faster than the GP32 in stock form with just ONE of those processors. It'll also have 4X more ram, and an option to have 8X more ram is being considered, which will also help with the speed... Dave, are you even paying attention to anything? Seriously, I understood where you were coming from a few days ago before we had as much knowlege about the new system as we had now, but not anymore... with the new knowlege, you have no reason to complain unless you're ignoring the new knowlege... And you're starting to piss me off now too. They're making emulators, and this system will be much more powerful... and processor speed isn't the only thing that makes something good or fast... and Craig told us not to judge it by processor speed so just freakin' trust him. If you think the rest of us are dumb for looking forward to this system, fine... but don't keep repeating yourself. Just sit back and laugh or something. We'll all see who's right when the system is actually in our hands. Until then, everything is only speculation. We're not the ones making the machine, GamePark Holdings is, so they know more about it than we do. And I don't think they'd sit here and blatantly lie to us about it. Besides, even if it only had one processor at 166mhz, the extra ram would still make it faster... and that's not even considering all the other extras that the GP32 didn't have... and it's cheaper... Even if it was nothing but a new case that cost less money, it'd still be a good buy because it's cheaper.
 

Cyclops

Member
Joined
May 26, 2003
Messages
950
Jarska333 posted on Jul 27 2005 at 12:46 PM said:
Vimacs posted on Jul 27 2005 at 01:08 AM said:
no, they just did loose couse the products where shitt, if they would have been good it would have been succeses.
Good=/=Succesfull. Just think of the Spice Girls. :ph34r:

Or, I understand that a band/group called Scooter is succesfull in Germany? They're bloody awfull. :ph34r:
Don't you start on the spice girls, or scooter for that matter, or you and me will have a falling out ;) . Its a bit clear why the spicegirls were successful, catchy tunes, and fantastic marketing, and appealed to everyone.

Scooter, whatever you think of them, are a group IMO who love what they do and churn out albums, they are self made, and thats rare in a world of POP Idol.

As for the whole good not equaling successful, its not really true. It is an idication of good. If you were picking a comparible product, the iPod would be a better example, or even the original gameboy. At least we would be talking like for like.

The GP32 was the most powerful handheld, it was Good because of that fot its time. In my mind the GPx2 is not about another sort of good. The GPx2 is about Best Value. And IMO it will the best media player around becuase of that.

Media Player means = Games/Video/Music in case you didn't know. This labeling one thing a portable console and the other a portable media player is rubbish. I nealy wet myself at the people trying to relabel the devices, and giving them seperate jobs. When its quite clear they do well very similar things. Ignoring the extras because none of them are killers. Its simple Powerful 2D Chip in 4:3, or Simple 3D Chip in widescreen. Answers on a postcard.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Nilsiboy

1337 T045T
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
Messages
561
Age
30
Website
Visit site
sorry, I skipped the last three or pages, I got tired at page 13 or so....
just a question:
If they're hiring someone to program the emus, won't they most likely cost money?!?
 

Cyclops

Member
Joined
May 26, 2003
Messages
950
DaveC posted on Jul 29 2005 at 04:06 AM said:
Better? but it has no emulators to play

Faster? 40 MHz BFD

Cooler? I don't know I think they are both at room temperature ;)

Cheap? it is even cheaper if you keep your current GP32 and just buy and extra SMC, fill it with some new romz and pretend it is a new system.
I like your posts I really do, they give me a little warn feeling all over. I will address something which I think you do not understand. Its not that your stupid but you have just fallen from Intel Mhz Hype Over the years. Its become both clear now to Intel/AMD that Mhz is not a good measure of power. I do feel ill equipped to explain, but lets have a little look at the chip that to me is already in Mhz alone 50% faster.

I sure you have read this Link and understand all of its nuances, I'll try explain the bits I understand please feel willing at any time to correct me. I'm not proud.

It has 2 CPU's 2 read it 2 ok just to state it again 2 hence the little 2X, will then be used for XXX app, in an optimal fashion, its upto the the programmer. Will it be used by Linux the Operating sytem running underneath, or the API(SDL) running on the GP32. I just don't know but just in case you missed it the first time TWO both running faster and better than that of the original.

I notice that it has DRAM Bus speed of 100Mhz, please enlighten me about how the one on the GP32 was better, as your clearly an expert. Oh and look at the cache.

I notice also that this Chip had 4 video co-processers. Thats 4, thats double the CPU in the new GP32 if you had fogotton. That allow for all kinds of fun things upto and including 720x480 @30fps of your favorite video with the storage capacity to match, but hold the press just of the things I see as interesting Zoom In/Out,Rotate,H/W Cursor/Alpha Blending/Dithering in hardware those look like things I'd want to use in my game/emulator/X server. Of couse we could just say 2D accelerated and just be done. If these are used It will certainly mean a speedup for most programs, and some pretty interesting graphics effects. Oh and yes it has more colours as well 170k in total thats quite a boost.

I'm unequipped to talk about the differences between the two chips, but is quite clear that so are you, please limit your posts to what you are capable of understanding, but what is clear is this chip is a *LOT* more capable than the old one

I do like your post of no emulators to play. My personal strong feeling is that out of the box it will have several, at least those that have been ported from Linux. Because they don't need porting anymore they will just work. If Gamepark Holdings have done there homework in fact chances are the amount of emulators will double than of those currently available. What it will mean is that those programs designed specificaly/optimised for the GP32 will not work without moving some code about, and really I fail to see any of those people complaining, and most I suspect will look forward to having a new challenge, even if it is not GPnextgen.

The two thinks you just dismiss, are the coolness/cheap. I may be the only one, but I love my GP32 but it was starting to look not quite the all singing, all dancing beast it was. I very much had the 7 year itch. The PSP homebrew scence looks quite fun, the DS is out, linux on the iPod, Zarus Clamshell, Arcos Media Player to name just a few, and my eyes were wandering, but out of the darkness comes gpnextgen and its all good, not only a better all round machine, but one where the upgrading to it is relatively cheap, so I don't feel the pain of doing so, and it does everything I would want of the other devices only better.

Please listen to those people who understand, what something can do, IS. rather than spreading opinions based on limited knowledge. People are starting to get upset, and it distracts from what is real esp to those, who are not familier with low level hardware(including myself), or linux, and want to know more. Esp as so little information is available at this time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rob

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
134
Age
31
Website
Visit site
Nilsiboy posted on Aug 1 2005 at 06:21 PM said:
just a question:
If they're hiring someone to program the emus, won't they most likely cost money?!?
The emulators will probably be either way. The professional will cost money and the ones made by the community will be freeware. It is pretty weird decision but if I am tired to wait for XGP and get GPX2 first, I will probably buy some of the commercial emus too. The average price for GP32 game download was 10$-15$ in Entware and when it closed the heighest price on the Gamepark Holdings official site was 9$ so they will probably be cheap ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cyclops

Member
Joined
May 26, 2003
Messages
950
Nilsiboy posted on Aug 1 2005 at 04:21 PM said:
sorry, I skipped the last three or pages, I got tired at page 13 or so....
just a question:
If they're hiring someone to program the emus, won't they most likely cost money?!?
Considering the time and effort it takes to write an emulator from scratch, it would seem unlikely for such small companies. You will notice that most emulators that are available currently on the GP32 have have been ported from emulators currently available for your PC. The current emulators where source is available(those that have been ported) comes mainly under GPL, which does allow them to sell these emulators, but also they have to supply the source code, which will mean you can compile the program yourself and use it on your GPnextgen. Also companies is the past who have tried to make money have been sued by corperations(The Big N) that have lots of money, and have had to fold, so doing so would be a bad idea considering the size of the companies producing gpnextgen. Also I think it would be harmful to a company that makes most of its money from hardware.

The only people who could make money, from emulators, or produce them for GPnextgen are those with closed source emulators on the GP32 ported to GPnextgen, but again the chances of them getting crushed by the big N/Sega etc are even higher. It worried me when certain parties started taking donations, not because I don't think the deserve it, it just opened up the GP32 a little more to the wondering eyes of the big corperations.

All in all its better just to sell it as a media player(which it finally is), and let people do with it what they want. Which seems to be the tack that Gamepark Holdings are taking, by creating and enviroment where doing such things as emulation/games/apps is easier.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DaveC

Internal Development
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
9,208
Cyclops posted on Aug 1 2005 at 04:33 PM said:
DaveC posted on Jul 29 2005 at 04:06 AM said:
Better? but it has no emulators to play

Faster?  40 MHz BFD

Cooler? I don't know I think they are both at room temperature  ;) 

Cheap? it is even cheaper if you keep your current GP32 and just buy and extra SMC, fill it with some new romz and pretend it is a new system.
... Oh and yes it has more colours as well 170k in total thats quite a boost.

I do like your post of no emulators to play. My personal strong feeling is that out of the box it will have several, at least those that have been ported from Linux. Because they don't need porting anymore they will just work. If Gamepark Holdings have done there homework in fact chances are the amount of emulators will double than of those currently available....

The two thinks you just dismiss, are the coolness/cheap. I...

More colors are actually not needed for emus (these systems had 4096 or less anyway) and only slow down emulation because you have more bitplanes to shift around. Hopefully there will be an 8-bit mode like the current GP32 or there will be a big performance hit.

Linux? Linux is a CPU/Memory hog. After all of that overhead what will be left for running code? Also you make it sound like you can just put a linux program on the SD and it will work with no programming. that seems impossible. How would this linux app automaticaly know the screen res, button layout, joystick layout, sound hardware etc?

Yeah coolness I dismiss. Who cares, a "toy" can only be so cool. Cheap? Cheap is good but not at the expense of functionality to me.

We will see. Who knows what will happen. The scene may become so fragmented from having two systems (XGP,GPx2) that things will be real different this time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Angel

"Nobody's gay for Moleman"
Joined
Dec 13, 2004
Messages
1,347
Website
www.brutallyhonestgaming.com
DaveC posted on Aug 1 2005 at 06:17 PM said:
We will see. Who knows what will happen. The scene may become so fragmented from having two systems (XGP,GPx2) that things will be real different this time.

This is what actually worries me the most. A scene divided, system wars, and all kinds of fun stuff.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

the_bubber11

Still Fresh
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
7
If the xgp is closed and the gpx2 is open source... i would definately pick the gpx2. besides it is going to be cheaper and will probably emulate snes full speed, thats all that i want.
 

Cyclops

Member
Joined
May 26, 2003
Messages
950
DaveC posted on Aug 1 2005 at 06:17 PM said:
More colors are actually not needed for emus (these systems had 4096 or less anyway) and only slow down emulation because you have more bitplanes to shift around. Hopefully there will be an 8-bit mode like the current GP32 or there will be a big performance hit.

Linux? Linux is a CPU/Memory hog. After all of that overhead what will be left for running code? Also you make it sound like you can just put a linux program on the SD and it will work with no programming. that seems impossible. How would this linux app automaticaly know the screen res, button layout, joystick layout, sound hardware etc?

Yeah coolness I dismiss. Who cares, a "toy" can only be so cool. Cheap? Cheap is good but not at the expense of functionality to me.

We will see. Who knows what will happen. The scene may become so fragmented from having two systems (XGP,GPx2) that things will be real different this time.
More colors are not needed for all emus you are correct, although some of the mame ones so like to have little more that 16bit, also it does allow for fun effects such as oh, gamma correction etc. Of course you must be aware that this is a video device too since the introduction of those movie sized cards. Hopefully with the new 4 video processers raising the colour count will have less of a hit on the device. Thank you for finding another benefit

Linux is CPU/Memory Hog <_< . Well really is this really true. You can probably do a comparison of Computers that have have some sort of Operating system in place. Its about all of them, Is it really that much of a memory hog it fitted on a device with 1/4 of the memory, and that was running an X server, so lets say 6 meg, that includes all kinds of fancy things to access the hardware. Why would you say it is impossible that a linux arm binary will not just work on the gp32, why not if it has a framebuffer, a joystick driver, alsa driver. Then why not. Thats one of the good things about an OS it allows a common interface to different components. But seriously why not. Yes there are issues, but they are nothing like on the same scale as before. Really you should try linux see how it works.

Anyone with a phone/mp3 player/hell a psp is cool or equivelent term, i'm going for nang today

Absolutely, your right, about cheapness, but it should be weighed against functionality. Try making a PC in your brain. you could build one from £150 to £1500. Where is the optimal PC in that. Gamepark Holdings, and Gamepark have tried to do this with a much smaller device. Now I bet that there is some functionality you can't live without, but I bet a can live without. That's bound to happen. I don't think they have missed out anything essential, and kept the price down. So obviously you will always have that. I think they have stuck a good balance. Yes it could be better, but I like what I see
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DaveC

Internal Development
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
9,208
Cyclops posted on Aug 2 2005 at 03:42 AM said:
DaveC posted on Aug 1 2005 at 06:17 PM said:
More colors are actually not needed for emus (these systems had 4096 or less anyway) and only slow down emulation because you have more bitplanes to shift around.  Hopefully there will be an 8-bit mode like the current GP32 or there will be a big performance hit.

Linux?  Linux is a CPU/Memory hog.  After all of that overhead what will be left for running code?  Also you make it sound like you can just put a linux program on the SD and it will work with no programming. that seems impossible.  How would this linux app automaticaly know the screen res, button layout, joystick layout, sound hardware etc?

Yeah coolness I dismiss.  Who cares, a "toy" can only be so cool.  Cheap? Cheap is good but not at the expense of functionality to me.

We will see. Who knows what will happen. The scene may become so fragmented from having two systems (XGP,GPx2) that things will be real different this time.
More colors are not needed for all emus you are correct, although some of the mame ones so like to have little more that 16bit, also it does allow for fun effects such as oh, gamma correction etc. Of course you must be aware that this is a video device too since the introduction of those movie sized cards. Hopefully with the new 4 video processers raising the colour count will have less of a hit on the device. Thank you for finding another benefit

Linux is CPU/Memory Hog <_< . Well really is this really true. You can probably do a comparison of Computers that have have some sort of Operating system in place. Its about all of them, Is it really that much of a memory hog it fitted on a device with 1/4 of the memory, and that was running an X server, so lets say 6 meg, that includes all kinds of fancy things to access the hardware. Why would you say it is impossible that a linux arm binary will not just work on the gp32, why not if it has a framebuffer, a joystick driver, alsa driver. Then why not. Thats one of the good things about an OS it allows a common interface to different components. But seriously why not. Yes there are issues, but they are nothing like on the same scale as before. Really you should try linux see how it works.

...


More colors are not always needed so that is why I hope there will be different graphics modes. This will be needed for some of the tougher emus like NeoGeo etc. for speed.


Computers all have OSs like linux etc. Right but the key word here is "computers". Computers aren't limited to 200 MHz and 32 Megs of RAM either now days. Having linux eating up CPU and memory may lead to slower emulation as compared to what would be possible with no OS. This may mean the difference between a playable GBA emu and one that is a choppy mess.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sonic-NKT

Very Active Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
1,890
the linux which will be used in the gpx2 will be very small.... they wont use a xserver, it will be all framebuffer or they are stupid (it wont take up ram or cpu power that could really slowdown the system).. and i think you wont see difference between a emu which runs using this linux basesystem(GPX2) or the way the gp32 worked.
also its easier to program if we have a fast LINUX and SDL Port, which will really use the hardware.
 
Top