The Road To Hd...

[Ayla]

You can do HDCP over DVI-D, it's just a digital signal, my TV supports it. But I don't know why you'd even want that on the Pandora, unless you are planning to play encrypted VOB files on it.

+1

 

[emil10001]

DisplayPort sounds like a good option so I voted for that. How would you go about integrating that connector into the pandora? Would there be some sort of addon or is it strictly going to be a modding kit if you are actually going to make something like this happen at all?

No idea, I'm just thinking out loud here. My first attempt would just be some circuitry on a flex cable plugged into the LCD connector; nothing special. There's SPI on the LCD cable but these framers and encoders use I2C so any mod kit would lose the LCD output in favor of HD (no pass through capable"]. It's not that ideal unless people want to make their own 'Pandora Cube' out of their regular Pandora.

I think the only way it could ever get into the Pandora itself was if the demand for the system was so high that we could do it without changing the selling price. It's way too soon to predict something like that and seems impossible in 2009 for sure. Maybe Christmas 2010 will bring the mk2.[/quote]Would it be possible to do it as I suggested? Which would be to somehow make an alternate case piece with a port for a spare lcd connector, going to the breakout board, the cable itself being switched somehow, between the standard cable, and the external. You could have a little bump in the case to make room for a board. Then use the HD Video breakout board along with some other stuff, like power, usb hub, storage for a pandora dock. I wouldn't mind doing the mod myself to swap out the case part and plug in the alternate cable, as long as it was a permanent solution and I could switch between lcd and external out.

This is something (the pandora dock) that I would pay $100+ for, and especially if it gave us a way to get HD video out. It seems from the other thread that there has been a lot of support for the dock idea over the standalone alternative. And we all know from countless threads that people would love HD video out.

 

[paeryn]

As for this DVI--->HDMI connection thing working: maybe it's just my TV. It's a pretty new Sharp Aquos panel and when I plug in the Beagleboard, I get "unsupported signal" or something like that. It led me to believe it's not as simple as that and there isn't an exact match between signals. Maybe the Beagle kernel needs to set up the framer's registers differently. I don't know.

Many TVs are very fickle about what resolution / timings they allow through HDMI. My LG only allows 640x480 from the Beagleboard whereas my monitor accepts upto 1024x768 from it. It doesn't help that currently the Beagleboard's video driver doesn't read the E-DDC channel and so can't set itself up to what the TV wants.

 

[wermy]

I (stupidly) voted before reading the "some things to consider" part of the post. I voted for HDMI, but after readign about the licensing fees and such, I'd vote for DisplayPort. No licensing fees, and easy to convert to HDMI sounds mighty fine to me.

 

[WoD]

Bash my brain in if I'm naive or ill informed, but surely a standard USB to VGA (or USB to DVI) adaptor can be plugged into the Pandora and used for this?

Like: http://pc.pcconnection.com/1/1/154195-blac...ck-ac1039a.html

I will certainly try to get my hands on one for testing with the Pandora.

 

[cbox]

adaptor can be plugged into the Pandora and used for this?

Like: http://pc.pcconnection.com/1/1/154195-blac...ck-ac1039a.html

I will certainly try to get my hands on one for testing with the Pandora.

USB to VGA is not standard and is generally not acceptable for most purposes you'd use a gaming handheld for. It can display static pages fine but does not do video or gaming well, as the USB port does not have that high of a throughput. Also, you would need drivers for it and they may not be available for either Linux or ARM.

 

[emil10001]

adaptor can be plugged into the Pandora and used for this?

Like: http://pc.pcconnection.com/1/1/154195-blac...ck-ac1039a.html

I will certainly try to get my hands on one for testing with the Pandora.

It is getting closer to the point where it would work for us, but it can't be used for much more than desktop/office type apps and web surfing. The reason is that the cpu, instead of the gpu, needs to do all the video renering for this display, and usb doesn't have enough bandwidth to support games or big videos.

 

[DAP]

DVI

I'd rather not support anything that has DRM incorporated into the design, whether that part is utilised or not. It's also vastly simpler than DisplayPort, and DVI>HDMI, DVI>VGA adapters are cheap.

HDMI, DVI and DisplayPort all have the DRM as part of the spec, but sources are not required to use DRM, so it need not be implemented in a source.

The only reason the DRM for these has not yet been cracked is that cracking it is pointless. The data on these ports is uncompressed, so if it is originally from a compressed source, you are better off cracking the source than the link between the source and the monitor. If you cracked the uncompressed data, you'd just have to compress it again before saving it with that extra loss of quality.

 

[wardred]

HDMI with just the digital signal like the Beagleboard does it. It works for my monitor and TV. Or DVI. Or display port if the adapters are cheap.

Any digital signal that avoids royalties and has decent compatibility. ++ for a small connector, at least on Pandora's side.
(If there's a problem with the HDMI/DVI signal BB uses with some monitors, then whatever is MOST compatible, and has most reasonably priced adapter cables.
I've done absolutely 0 research into it.)

If an Analog signal can be supported as well, I'd do that too.

Honestly, if the PandoraBoard or PandoraBox is going to reach the widest audience, it should probably have...
1 DVI interface
1 VGA interface
and 1 old fashioned S-Video or Component.
(Maybe one out the LCD connector and one out the connector used for current video out.)

Unfortunately in this DTV Transitional period some people are going to have old fashioned VGA/S-Video out and others are going to have HDMI/DVI. Good to see this poll as it'll give you a better idea for the connectors people actually have, and while I'm seeing more posts for digital out, I still see a fair amount asking for analog.

----------------- OFF TOPIC BELOW -------------------------------

For me the Pandora Box would be a beagleboard replacement and would have to have DVI - of some sort, preferably HDMI/DVI natively compatible, and a 4 port USB hub built in. Wouldn't have to be HDMI, but a small connector makes sense. Bonus for Ethernet. Definitely keep the wireless and bluetooth. Wireless so I can test out "ad-hock" networking like the DS has - automatically find other Pandoras and allow you to play games with them, and because some people will put them where ethernet isn't available. ++Ethernet because a lot of people don't do wireless, and wireless can be a PITA to get to work, and it'll be right next to your developer's PCs in a lot of cases.

It WOULD NOT need the battery, monitor, keyboard, or controls. It would need a power adapter.

With that said, it'll be a while before I could buy a second anything. Funds are tight, and I want to see the unit I've already purchased.

Also, I did a bit of looking since the last poll, and at the $200 price point there's already competition with AMD/Inter-tel/maybe even VIA for the HTPC market, including accelerated graphics. I don't know how compelling this would be in that market when other alternatives already exist and can have HD and DVD/Blue Ray added at little to no cost. The low power is nice, but most people also equate that with lower price.

As a replacement for the Beagleboard the price should be cut down as much as possible, but not so much that we start having to purchase "extras" like you do with them. With the USB Ethernet Adapter - if it's not right next to your computer, USB Hub, Case, Power supply, etc. that you need to get for the BB to compare to what this would be, the BB might actually be more expensive, and definitely less uniform. I'd figure this device would be a less hardcore hardware hacker's market - sell just the board to them if you want to - and more of a Generic OMAP3 / and Pandora specific software developer's kit. As such the dev tools should already be installed and configured.

 

[Trip]

IMO Displayport is the most future proof and offers converters to all the other connectors anyway, so that's my choice.
Besides I really hate HDMI for some reason?? ^_^

 

[Sphinxter]

How would you go about integrating that connector into the pandora? Would there be some sort of addon or is it strictly going to be a modding kit if you are actually going to make something like this happen at all?

+1

I have the same questions.

Not on the team but I would like to see it added it to the ext port and it's dongle.

 

[Titcher]

As I figure something like this would need a lot of room, I imagine a LCD/Output switch with a female connector brought to the edge of the case could work well and not sacrifice portability.

 

[scrag_10]

I think in the future it would be kool if usb 3.0, could be used. XD

 

[WizardStan]

I don't think I like where this thread is going. If HD out could be added as a free feature, I'd be all for it, but I'm having trouble reconciling the amount of work I'm fairly certain would be required.
Is this something you're seriously considering adding now? Or is it an aftermarket official mod?
Because it's been said before but I'll say it again, you will never reach perfect. "Oh, if we just delay a month, we can use this new technology X", then a month later something else is available, and you'll want to use that. You HAVE to pick a place to stop. It will NOT be perfect. That's the nature of any project with open ended requirements: there's always something else that can be added.

 

[gruso]

^ Nah, MW is just brainstorming. Maybe for the hypothetical Pandora cube, or something else. If they (i) changed the first batch design or (ii) did a HD upgrade for the second batch, 4000 people would be on the warpath. No way they'll do that.

 

[MWeston]

I don't think I like where this thread is going. If HD out could be added as a free feature, I'd be all for it, but I'm having trouble reconciling the amount of work I'm fairly certain would be required.
Is this something you're seriously considering adding now? Or is it an aftermarket official mod?
Because it's been said before but I'll say it again, you will never reach perfect. "Oh, if we just delay a month, we can use this new technology X", then a month later something else is available, and you'll want to use that. You HAVE to pick a place to stop. It will NOT be perfect. That's the nature of any project with open ended requirements: there's always something else that can be added.

Nope, it's not going into the design. Everything about it is so wrong for now: need to order new parts, write new software, test a new board then order thousands of them after it works, and also we'd have to modify the case.

Plus people are coding for 800x480 and suddenly having HD would change everything. Most stuff would have to use 800x480 and then scale up to whatever HD resolution was used (like S-Video does but scaling down) and that wouldn't look good (or at least defeat the point of HD). The only thing HD would be good for is media playback and desktop applications. I'm not against any of that. In fact, it's a very neat aspect of the Beagle, but from what I read people saying, that goes against the niche market Pandora holds with its portability. It's not like anyone needs to render Super Mario Brothers at 720p to improve the graphics.

 

[CyruzDraxs]

USB to video converters add lots of CPU overhead and, because of bandwidth limitations of USB, can't handle higher resolutions. It wouldn't really be all that much better than S-Video.

 

[scrag_10]

Even for multipedia playback it is kinda silly, because HD movies take up so much space. I think most people would go for the standard 700mb movie rip then a 4gb 720p movie.
My take is on a portable device you want to have as much content as you can because you don't know when you'll have time too get more, and with portable you are always on the move, so downloading straight to pandora is silly with big files, because you might not be able to stay connected long enough to DL the whole thing.



lol
lol @ insert acronym

 

[JayFoxRox]

HD would still be nice for developers who want to work at home. Scripting and testing directly on the Pandora for example.
Or for presentations, the beamers in school suck at S-Video.
Also OpenGL ES could still render to a higher resolution without any compatiblity issues if the Pandora team would provide a good framework. I still hope that will happen for Pandora 2 if that will ever come (If the first one will ever come)
//Edit: Added a missing word

 

[emil10001]

I don't think I like where this thread is going. If HD out could be added as a free feature, I'd be all for it, but I'm having trouble reconciling the amount of work I'm fairly certain would be required.
Is this something you're seriously considering adding now? Or is it an aftermarket official mod?
Because it's been said before but I'll say it again, you will never reach perfect. "Oh, if we just delay a month, we can use this new technology X", then a month later something else is available, and you'll want to use that. You HAVE to pick a place to stop. It will NOT be perfect. That's the nature of any project with open ended requirements: there's always something else that can be added.

Nope, it's not going into the design. Everything about it is so wrong for now: need to order new parts, write new software, test a new board then order thousands of them after it works, and also we'd have to modify the case.

Plus people are coding for 800x480 and suddenly having HD would change everything. Most stuff would have to use 800x480 and then scale up to whatever HD resolution was used (like S-Video does but scaling down) and that wouldn't look good (or at least defeat the point of HD). The only thing HD would be good for is media playback and desktop applications. I'm not against any of that. In fact, it's a very neat aspect of the Beagle, but from what I read people saying, that goes against the niche market Pandora holds with its portability. It's not like anyone needs to render Super Mario Brothers at 720p to improve the graphics. :"] [/quote]I was kind of hoping for this as a mod. If there were a daughter board developed for the 'pandora cube' to do HD output, then it seems like a way could be figured out to hack it into the pandora as a mod. If the devs came up with it, they could sell the board, and an alternate case piece to accomodate the daughter board. I would buy something like that without thinking twice.

Also, I'm also not suggesting that this should happen now. I'd be perfectly happy to see it materialize in a year or so.