The Road To Hd...

Choose a connector type:

  • HDMI

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • DisplayPort

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Analog: Component or VGA

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • DVI-D

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • Other?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2

MWeston

Internal Development
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
1,256
Location
Canada
Website
openpandora.ca
Hi,

This is just an inquisitive poll about getting HD onto the Pandora or similar device. The gigantic thread about a Pandora cube made me curious but this doesn't indicate I'm up to anything more than gathering information. I've started thinking about how I might plug in something to the LCD connector to get HD but it's just for experimentation. I don't want to see "Confirmed: Pandora has HD output!". ;)

Some things to consider:

- HDMI has a $10k/yr licensing fee that would be hard to swallow for hacking only. A lot of people would have to want mod kits for this one! It does open the possibility for 5.1 audio if done on the main PCB and only if I can synchronize the I2S channels to run at the same clock edge so I can steal the data line from each McBSP interface....not an easy proposition.
- DVI-D - I own nothing with this connector!
- Analog options might use more power. I have seen some pretty low power HDMI converter chips but the DVI ones seem to suck as much power as the component video chips! You would think a purely digital solution would use less power but it's not always true or not by as much as hoped.
- DisplayPort - I don't know a heck a lot about this one yet. Isn't it just something Apple is trying to sell everyone on still? Anyone else actually use it? Does it carry audio too? The royalty free thing is really nice.
- Are there others out there and are they royalty free? HDMI is so cool because one little cable does everything, but that licensing fee is something that makes anything but a serious commitment (due to contracts having to be signed) impossible.

EDIT: Some things I mentioned on page 4 that should be noted at the start of this topic as well:

"Nope, it's not going into the design. Everything about it is so wrong for now: need to order new parts, write new software, test a new board then order thousands of them after it works, and also we'd have to modify the case.

Plus people are coding for 800x480 and suddenly having HD would change everything. Most stuff would have to use 800x480 and then scale up to whatever HD resolution was used (like S-Video does but scaling down) and that wouldn't look good (or at least defeat the point of HD). The only thing HD would be good for is media playback and desktop applications. I'm not against any of that. In fact, it's a very neat aspect of the Beagle, but from what I read people saying, that goes against the niche market Pandora holds with its portability. It's not like anyone needs to render Super Mario Brothers at 720p to improve the graphics. :) "
 
I don't understand. You still need an HD output to convert to another one so a converter box doesn't mean anything here if there's nothing to convert or are you suggesting to convert S-Video?

Also, I don't think you can go from DVI ---> HDMI because of the protection. It didn't work from my Beagleboard to my TV anyway. Can you even go from HDMI --> DVI? I didn't think that was possible either because of the different slot allocation in the serial stream. This works on the Beagle because it's still DVI signals on an HDMI connector for space savings only.
 
Some things to consider:

- HDMI has a $10k/yr licensing fee that would be hard to swallow for hacking only. A lot of people would have to want mod kits for this one! It does open the possibility for 5.1 audio if done on the main PCB and only if I can synchronize the I2S channels to run at the same clock edge so I can steal the data line from each McBSP interface....not an easy proposition.
-

Have you to pay for the HDMI license fee also, if you don't use scrambeld content ?
 
Apple wasn't lying when they said DisplayPort is an industry standard.

They were lying when they said the new MacBooks used it. They use Mini-DisplayPort, which is NOT an industry standard, and an adapter must be used to get it to anything sane.

DVI-D is the most compatible right now, but DisplayPort (not mini) may overtake it in the next couple of years. For now, though, DVI-D is probably a safe bet. I doubt it'll be going the way of the serial port any time soon, as VGA is still around.
 
Michael,

that thread is the coolest news since the invention of icecream!

i guess display port will be the future, but i don't know about these licensing costs. $10k/year really is tough for hdmi.
 
Also, I don't think you can go from DVI ---> HDMI because of the protection. It didn't work from my Beagleboard to my TV anyway. Can you even go from HDMI --> DVI? I didn't think that was possible either because of the different slot allocation in the serial stream. This works on the Beagle because it's still DVI signals on an HDMI connector for space savings only.
DVI -> HDMI should work. It definitely does with my laptop and beamer.

The copy protection will only prevent you from displaying HDCP-protected HDMI on a monitor that has only a DVI input (if you Monitor does not support HDCP over DVI). If your HDMI signal is not HDCP protected you can convert it to DVI with no problem.

DisplayPort does audio + video, and adapters to convert DisplayPort to HDMI are cheap. Seems like it would save everyone money.
Very interesting. I was originally going to vote for HDMI since I didn't know anything about DisplayPort. After reading your links I am now strongly in favor of DisplayPort.
 
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Also, I don't think you can go from DVI ---> HDMI because of the protection. It didn't work from my Beagleboard to my TV anyway. Can you even go from HDMI --> DVI? I didn't think that was possible either because of the different slot allocation in the serial stream. This works on the Beagle because it's still DVI signals on an HDMI connector for space savings only.
QUOTE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Definition_Multimedia_Interface#Compatibility_with_DVI)
Compatibility with DVI
A DVI signal is electrically compatible with an HDMI video signal; no signal conversion needs to take place when an adapter is used, and consequently no loss in video quality occurs.[3] As such HDMI is backward compatible with Digital Visual Interface digital video (DVI-D or DVI-I, but not DVI-A) as used on modern computer monitors and graphics cards. This means that a DVI-D source can drive an HDMI monitor, or vice versa, by means of a suitable adapter or cable. However, the audio and remote-control features of HDMI will not be available.[3] Additionally, not all devices with DVI input support High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP). Without such support by the device, an HDCP-enabled signal source will suppress output and so prevent the device from receiving HDCP-protected content.[98] All HDMI devices must support sRGB encoding.[99]
 
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My vote goes to HDMI or DisplayPort (clicked on HDMI because that's what my TV supports)
 
Displayport, with a £1.00 displayport to HDMI adaptor bundled in the box!
 
The thing is, I already have a really nice VGA cable that came with my monitor.
I also have a fairly nice monitor that takes VGA and DVI input.

Anything else will involve buying extra thingies.

And what kind of "HD" are we talking about?
I'm not quite familiar with the TV names, but my monitor does 1440 by 900 just fine over VGA, and DVI cables are too expensive for me to bother trying that.

I prefer VGA [Actually D-sub? I don't know] connections over all. My monitor supports them, my computer supports them, and I've already got a cable to link them. There's only one TV in my house that can't handle VGA, and I don't care about it.

DVI is the next best thing, I would just need to buy a cable.

DisplayPort sounds interesting, I've heard it's royalty-free, right? I would need to buy an adapter though, since it's such a new standard.

I've heard bad things about HDMI, it has licensing fees, and I have nothing that uses it. I think it's a terrible idea. But then again, all I have is combo TV / monitors. I'm not a fan of the Bigass 52 inch plasma type things that have HDMI for whatever reason.

Edit: Apparently DisplayPort and HDMI took over the world while I was asleep.
I assume this thread is supposed to contain the video output discussion for the hypothetical Pandora Box? For that, just make it get VGA or DVI + standard headphone audio one way or another. An adapter is fine if it's less than 10 dollars.
For me personally, I've never had a problem with VGA.
 
DisplayPort. I'm just waiting for it to become more popular, and i think you can just use an adapter of you had to have hdmi.
but thats just me
 
I vote for DisplayPort, but I like to have option use old VGA monitor. Maybe MWeston can design two daughter boards - one with DisplayPort and other with analog VGA (and/or component). if demand will be enough and with "easy to change" in mind it can be easy installable by user.

If I think about it as option for "Pandora Cube", then higher power consumption is not issue.
 
- HDMI has a $10k/yr licensing fee that would be hard to swallow for hacking only. A lot of people would have to want mod kits for this one! It does open the possibility for 5.1 audio if done on the main PCB and only if I can synchronize the I2S channels to run at the same clock edge so I can steal the data line from each McBSP interface....not an easy proposition.
IIUC, the Beagle team only routed video signals to the HDMI connector to avoid licensing issues. You'd have to route audio separately.
HDMI video signals are the same as DVI-D.

QUOTE
- DVI-D - I own nothing with this connector!

All recent and decent PC monitors have DVI-D. Don't tell me your monitor is that old :p

My vote: HDMI with the above trick for sound :)
 
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