The Rabbit Joint

[Username]

Facism fighting facism. Awesome. Have fun being a spineless, then.

Wow, you obviously don't have any idea what fascism is. You don't even know how it is spelled. And before you make me really angry I am going to say that I will not discuss this further with you but recommend more education on the subject to you, you ignorant little prick. Half of my family was killed in Ausschwitz, the other half was waving around nazi banners and tried to stay alive in trenches because they thought they were the master race. I am living in a country where assholes like you ignore the fact that there still are shitloads of nazis marching around blocks, burning down immigration shelters and chasing so called niggers through subway stations. My friends and me have invested years to fight idiocracy and bigotry and were thanked with brutal beatings and assaults. My mother and my little brother have been threatened regularly on the phone by neo nazis, people drive by our homes to throw shit at our walls or smash windows, sometimes they also smash skulls of my friends. Many I know have been hospitalized because they were standing up to these racist thugs. Now I realize that you haven't been in contact with any of this because you live somewhere half around this world but maybe you should consider that hating people for their skin colour or their ethnical background, be it that they are jewish or people who have fled war and poverty ridden countries is not an opinion but a crime waiting to happen. I can't tell people what to think, I don't want anybody thrown in prison because they think in a different way, but I sure as hell wish that this symbol of hate, violence, death, rape, torture and the destruction of several cultures will not be tolerated and that everything related to it be purged from the minds of the youth.

Now sit down behind your desk and read something about fascism before you dare make a comparison like that. Thanks for your ignorance.
Wikipedia says it right there

Also: Thanks Lubi, you know what you are talking about as a non-german living in Germany. Maybe these kids should listen to you.

Sorry, but much like most controversial topics, facism doesn't have a set definition. federal censorship is an element of facism, however, and youll find little opposition on that regard.. The rest of your argument is a strawman bullshit about physical violence and shit, but even there you dig your own grave: obviously, cencorship of a symbol- probably actually just putting fuel on the flames- doesn't do SHIT to stop a movement like that. guess what, you can't have your cake and eat it to. you don't want an oppressive governmental system? then you don't have oppressive policies about anyone, even those who are the exact type who support it. thank you for your ignorance, your inability to conform to basics of intelligent arguments and your overabundance of personal insults. i hate to use this overused internetcliche, but like V says, whether or not they are good or bad, 'ideas are bulletproof'.
(also to other posts- dcgm, everyones been discriminated against. that includes whites. and blacks and jews havent been the prominent ones being enslaved for 'centuries'. (well, blacks, but even that is much more shortlived than others) please read a history book. not that it matter whether or not I am a common target of discrimination, it's just not relevant to what is a human rights issue. also, how am I fighting the system? for defending what should be an essential right to everyone? no, im not fighting the system, im fighting for what the system should hold in high regard. x, you dont give people the power to do things by letting them express themselves. you give them the power to preach to the choir, and nothing much else. oppression just stirs an innate inspiration in people. i also believe rapists and pedophiles should be able to voice there beliefs, as should every type of racist, even those who hate me, or anyone else. its not hard to comprehend)

Are you too thick? I tried discussing this with you but you ignore facts and my actual arguments. I never said that censorship of a symbol stops a movement like fascism!!! I clearly stated that before. I also posted a link about fascism for you to read and understand that it does indeed have a very clear definition and only because you think you are a history and political science expert this definition will not go away. Yes, censorship is a part of oppressive governments of all kinds. I am not in favour of oppressive governments but my standpoint on this will not be part of this discussion. The fact that this is not a key element to fascism has furtherly been ignored by you and my so called strawman arguments are part of an experience that I am trying to share with you so you can perhaps understand why the Germans have such a strong feeling about this symbol. You won't understand, you are not willing to see different points of view and accept that your opinion on this matter might not be the most valid one. As I said before: I don't care about the rest of the world, but in Germany, it makes a whole lot of sense to prohibit the use of the swastika.

But according to you prohibiting it hasn't done anything to help so far.

 

[___]

You just can't go down that road. Heck, you are even allowed or supposed to spell words S S, rather Doppel S

Do you mean if you're asked to spell a word, you say doppel s rather than s s?

Well that really isn't true. You can aswell say s s, noone will find that weird but doppel s is more common. Doppel S sounds nicer though.

But according to you prohibiting it hasn't done anything to help so far.

Yes it has done something. It has taken a symbol away from the nazis that they could otherwise rub in our faces. Ofcourse prohibiting a simple symbol will not magically make fascism and racism disappear but it's a statement. I can see that people will not be as offended in most other countries, but with our history, two hegemonial wars that we started, 6 million jews that we exterminated, millions more that have died in the wars and all that, it's good that they can't use it to promote their sick ideologies here anymore. They will not find another symbol like that and they haven't as of yet. The swastika had them unified under one banner and this has been made impossible now.

 

[Username]

But according to you prohibiting it hasn't done anything to help so far.
Yes it has done something. It has taken a symbol away from the nazis that they could otherwise rub in our faces. Ofcourse prohibiting a simple symbol will not magically make fascism and racism disappear but it's a statement. I can see that people will not be as offended in most other countries, but with our history, two hegemonial wars that we started, 6 million jews that we exterminated, millions more that have died in the wars and all that, it's good that they can't use it to promote their sick ideologies here anymore. They will not find another symbol like that and they haven't as of yet. The swastika had them unified under one banner and this has been made impossible now.
But what has taking a symbol away actually accomplished? It's like rebranding, it's the same product but with a different face. They do the same things, only now they have a different look.

 

[___]

But according to you prohibiting it hasn't done anything to help so far.
Yes it has done something. It has taken a symbol away from the nazis that they could otherwise rub in our faces. Ofcourse prohibiting a simple symbol will not magically make fascism and racism disappear but it's a statement. I can see that people will not be as offended in most other countries, but with our history, two hegemonial wars that we started, 6 million jews that we exterminated, millions more that have died in the wars and all that, it's good that they can't use it to promote their sick ideologies here anymore. They will not find another symbol like that and they haven't as of yet. The swastika had them unified under one banner and this has been made impossible now.
But what has taking a symbol away actually accomplished? It's like rebranding, it's the same product but with a different face. They do the same things, only now they have a different look.

Okay, never fucking mind... I think you're trolling. You don't want a serious debate or you are not able to understand the English language. I am guessing it's the first one.

 

[danielliu88888]

But according to you prohibiting it hasn't done anything to help so far.
Yes it has done something. It has taken a symbol away from the nazis that they could otherwise rub in our faces. Ofcourse prohibiting a simple symbol will not magically make fascism and racism disappear but it's a statement. I can see that people will not be as offended in most other countries, but with our history, two hegemonial wars that we started, 6 million jews that we exterminated, millions more that have died in the wars and all that, it's good that they can't use it to promote their sick ideologies here anymore. They will not find another symbol like that and they haven't as of yet. The swastika had them unified under one banner and this has been made impossible now.
But what has taking a symbol away actually accomplished? It's like rebranding, it's the same product but with a different face. They do the same things, only now they have a different look.

Okay, never fucking mind... I think you're trolling. You don't want a serious debate or you are not able to understand the English language. I am guessing it's the first one.

he's not trolling. i think you both have different takes on the symbol. for him, it's a symbol of the nazis, bad ideals, among other things, therefore the symbol doesn't mean much to him. but for you, i think it carries a much deeper message. obviously, it's harder to get if you aren't german or haven't lived in germany.

 

[___]

Yeah that might be true. Anyways, no reason to get all worked up about this. It's not really a relevant discussion as it doesn't concern you guys and this thread wasn't meant for serious conversation of that nature anyway. It was a nice little flamewar at some points but I am tired of this now.

Back to my original intent: Convincing people that the new logo is as ugly as PoisonedVs mother...

 

[nickspoon]

The banning of the Nazi symbol is, itself, symbolic. It certainly doesn't achieve anything tangible; racist groups still exist and will continue to be racist, with or without the insignia. What the censorship of the symbol and related things represents is Germany's rejection of and (I suppose) shame at the acts conducted under its name during the Second World War. And I'm sure anyone here can understand that. It's something more than "the government doesn't want you to see this"; it's a more deep-seated, emotional, patriotic ideal. I suspect that if a referendum were held tomorrow over the censorship of the Nazi insignia the law would not change.

 

[___]

shame at the acts conducted under its name during the Second World War. And I'm sure anyone here can understand that. It's something more than "the government doesn't want you to see this"; it's a more deep-seated, emotional, patriotic ideal. I suspect that if a referendum were held tomorrow over the censorship of the Nazi insignia the law would not change.

Thanks, that's basically all I've been trying to say. I don't know why the hell they didn't understand this, maybe my paragraphs were too long to comprehend?

 

[jlepley]

I understand perfectly, I just think its wrong. I think that when you silence a group of people, it sends a message that you are afraid of them.

 

[___]

I understand perfectly, I just think its wrong. I think that when you silence a group of people, it sends a message that you are afraid of them.

But you do not understand... noone is being silenced. A symbol has been banned. Nothing to do with silencing anyone!!! Why do I need to explain the difference again? It's really not hard to grasp. Also, showing a group of imbeciles like that, that you're in control of their shit should show them who is in charge and that their violent crap doesn't reach the state itself at its core. These people can express their opinion freely as long as they do not use forbidden symbols or incite people to commit crimes which is AFAIK a law in the US aswell as in the UK and probably in a lot of other countries. You cannot actively ask somebody to kill or persecute someone else because that is called "incitement to commit a crime", it's a legal term, it's not a way to express your opinion and it is not censorship to tell people not to do this!!! That was what I was going to show with my paedophilia allegory. It's okay for perverts to openly admit to their perversions. It's not okay of them to exclaim that they want to rape little kids though. Makes perfect sense, same fucking thing.

 

[jlepley]

But saying "you can't use this symbol" is kind of useless. My only problem with it is that it is a precedent to ban other symbols, including religious or political symbols.

On a side note: what's up with the servers? The Pandora web site and this forum have been on the fritz lately.

 

[___]

Yeah it keeps going offline. I dunno, I blame it on traffic.

See, that's the thing you can never get about the swastika being banned. It is considered an anti-democratic symbol over here which makes it sorta illegal. It represents so many atrocities and so much grief that was brough upon us by our grandparents. Noone wants to see this on our streets. It's a blatant insult to all humanitarian and democratic causes, it's a reminder of all the bloodshed and it should remain in history books to educate our children about what horrible deeds their ancestors committed and what should never happen again. It should not be available for hate groups to rub in our faces and unify them under the flag that had once almost reigned Europe with terror.

Noone should delete their past, this is not the goal of the banishment of the swastika. It is as I said multiple times already still completely legal to be used in art and for historical information, that is in history books/movies and literature aswell as theatre, critical art.

 

[danielliu88888]

But saying "you can't use this symbol" is kind of useless. My only problem with it is that it is a precedent to ban other symbols, including religious or political symbols.

you have it all wrong. i'll assume that either you're not german or that you haven't lived in germany. it's not the same as the US government being just plain racist or whatnot, the situation is different, please try to understand it from someone else's point of view.

 

[Username]

But saying "you can't use this symbol" is kind of useless. My only problem with it is that it is a precedent to ban other symbols, including religious or political symbols.
you have it all wrong. i'll assume that either you're not german or that you haven't lived in germany. it's not the same as the US government being just plain racist or whatnot, the situation is different, please try to understand it from someone else's point of view.
Lord of the Rings is fucking boring.
Edit: Was gonna put a quote here but changed my mind.
Edit 2: Here take this instead:

 

[Nova]

Your video doesn't work?

 

[Username]

Blech, embedding disabled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP9csWhlHWM

 

[Nova]

QUOTE
This video is not available in your country.


What a big sloshy pail full of fail.

 

[Sphinxter]

QUOTE
This video is not available in your country.
What a big sloshy pail full of fail.
Yeesh, song dedications on youtube, worse than kittens.

 

[lubidog]

shame at the acts conducted under its name during the Second World War. And I'm sure anyone here can understand that. It's something more than "the government doesn't want you to see this"; it's a more deep-seated, emotional, patriotic ideal. I suspect that if a referendum were held tomorrow over the censorship of the Nazi insignia the law would not change.

An amazing and insightful post! Perfectly put.

 

[(naw)mcx]

Tada. Not drawn by me, btw.