Racism towards greece

[rygD]

Racism is discrimation based on belonging to an ethnic group with a distinc feature (like color of skin, shape of eyes, color of hair).

Damn, I guess I am racist then. I inherently distrust people with any sort of hair. Or eyes. Or skin.

You got confused here. I was referring to cultural biases, not subcultural biases.

I don't know if you intended it, but this got a huge grin and a snicker from me. Still, there is, or has been, a lot of targeting of subcultures, at least over here. (Of course it is usually more a clashing of subcultures, but not always. Sucks when you belong to two or more in an area at a time when that clashing is going on between those subcultures.) I feel this could be a fun/silly discussion, and I would love to be involved in it.

On a somewhat more serious note, with something I have never really understood: what about hate flung at people that grew up in our live in a certain place/region? Let's look at the US to start with, where I know there is some negative views of people from the southeast, or the northeast, or the west coast (mostly California) and so on, by people from other areas. To me they are all Americans, and humans. For a more geographically limited example that may be more familiar, it isn't uncommon to have one city vs. another, or even the people from a town and those from the rural regions nearby. If none of that would be considered racism, how is it that certain views against Hungarians would be? Are Germany and Greece further away from each other than NYC and SoCal?

Let's assume for a moment, industrialization actually happened and that we actually reached a high degree of automation on top of the former.

Lots of stuff in that post I don't exactly like the sound of, but if it all worked out right it would be nice. I don't think this would really lead to a utopia, but let's pretend for a minute. Due to just the variety of interests and hobbies I have, because I am assuming others also enjoy a bunch of different things, working just to keep busy and getting paid just so you can have what you need to live, there is still plenty that will be created merely because we can, plus all the benefits that will come along with that ("look everyone, while repairing/restoring/improving this thing for fun I came up with this idea that will make it work better/last longer" "great idea, I am going to test this a bunch of ways to see if it would work for more than just your specific use" "if your testing looks promising I would like to implement this in the replacement thingies we will be taking out to a place, and if it works there maybe we can use it everywhere")

I like to imagine that music and film would be solely the realm of those that are passionate about it, and not just trying to make money. That sounds like a huge improvement, and lots more stuff for us to find and enjoy, even if it isn't popular. We kinda have this, but more people able to try their hand at it, and the people that are doing it able to devote more time and effort to it...plus more time for other people to spend watching and listening, and possibly being inspired to also give it a shot. We should try it just for the music and videos. Games too, probably.

(I know I probably put words in your mouth, I just wanted to see where the idea took me.)

 

[ible]

I like to imagine that music and film would be solely the realm of those that are passionate about it, and not just trying to make money. That sounds like a huge improvement, and lots more stuff for us to find and enjoy, even if it isn't popular. We kinda have this, but more people able to try their hand at it, and the people that are doing it able to devote more time and effort to it...plus more time for other people to spend watching and listening, and possibly being inspired to also give it a shot. We should try it just for the music and videos. Games too, probably.

well, that's "the argument" for why we don't pay teachers enough in the states -- only the people who want to teach will. i'm not sure it's working out well in all areas...

one of the problems, though, is that in every area, people who are not the best judges of the excellence of a product/art/lecture/movie/teaching are not the ones who are (typically) in control of the purse strings. people who make excellent stuff aren't necessarily rewarded as well as someone who makes something of less quality and markets/sells it better. so there's things like hype, which make a product worthwhile because of social conditioning (everyone else has/watches it and thinks it's good!!).

 

[Djoga'Ro]

@rygD I wasn't talking utopia, just some applied sanity

 

[rygD]

@rygD I wasn't talking utopia, just some applied sanity

Like I said, I knew I was kinda putting words in your mouth (or keyboard, because this is now a keyboard thread). There is nothing wrong with wanting utopia. It'll never happen, but we can pretend.

well, that's "the argument" for why we don't pay teachers enough in the states -- only the people who want to teach will. i'm not sure it's working out well in all areas...

one of the problems, though, is that in every area, people who are not the best judges of the excellence of a product/art/lecture/movie/teaching are not the ones who are (typically) in control of the purse strings. people who make excellent stuff aren't necessarily rewarded as well as someone who makes something of less quality and markets/sells it better. so there's things like hype, which make a product worthwhile because of social conditioning (everyone else has/watches it and thinks it's good!!).

I totally agree. I think teachers should be some of the best paid people out there, instead of treated like babysitters. Maybe have them rated by a group of other teachers they don't know.

My point was to take money out of art and entertainment, if we don't really need to work as much to live. It really isn't about "quality" since everyone likes different stuff. It is the genres and styles that are already not very popular that I think would grow. Yes, the more popular stuff would probably be from the truly skilled and original artists, not just the best advertised, or those with industry connections. The kind of movies and television that were relatively uncommon 20 or so years ago have continued to develop, and become extremely popular, with some being revived. Not that it is all good. Reality tv is still around, with no sign of it going away any time soon. Reality tv stars are even becoming world leaders...I wish I could fire him them.

I still enjoy watching old low budget science fiction movies and shows, and if the story or other aspects are good the makeup and special effects don't need to be that good. I have watched some pretty rough stuff (with some acknowledging their own shortcoming and making that a part of the fun), and still enjoyed it. There are even studios that specialize in those kinds of films and shows. I have one in particular in mind (they make Z Nation), that I can't think of the name of right now. And it is really stupid that a company can threaten legal action on fan films (as has been done with Star Trek...at the end of the season I will check out the new series, although there are some things I really liked and some I didn't with the tiny bit I saw of the first episode...luckily I have The Orville to keep me happy, even though it is a comedy, not that the comedy gets in the way...oh, and Last Man On Earth).

 

[Djoga'Ro]

I have one in particular in mind (they make Z Nation), that I can't think of the name of right now.

Asylum, I think. Z Nation is great, but it's their only real accomplishment from what I know of their output.

...oh, and Last Man On Earth

At first I liked it, but at some point I couldn't stand that horrible guy any longer.

 

[rygD]

Yeah, Asylum sounds right. I thought they were also behind the Sharknado films, and other similar fun trash. I will go look them up later.

On Z Nation, I think they try to make references and jokes about The Walking Dead. I recently watched some old TWD episodes and heard them say something about "puppies and kittens" because people were trying to ignore the reality of the situation with reanimated corpses. I may be wrong, but I think the use of that phrase in Z Nation is a nod to that, or at least an amusing coincidence (I don't remember how they decided to use it on Z Nation, but I remember the episode, so I should be able to refresh my memory).

And since I have already derailed this thread, I would like to see a series of The Walking Dead on another continent, or they could at least show us what is going on in other parts of the world. Hmmm, maybe there are fan films or something with that.

 

[Grench]

[QUOTE="mius, post: 1425561, member: 66200"
It's common knowledge that modern definitions of racism include ethnic or cultural (subconscious) biases and therefore all related discriminatory actions, including speech. So opening with a variation of the good ole "But-but the Jews are not a race!1!!" just makes you look bloody pedantic—in the best of cases.
[/QUOTE]

Mmmm.. No. Not even remotely the same thing. You are, of course, welcome to your opinion, but I fail to see the relevance.

"Race" and "racism" are simply not defined by arbitrarily drawn political boundaries. Discrimination on those bounds could be defined as, "Nationalism", but not inherently, "Racism." Nationalism, and discrimination due to religious and cultural heritage, are often lumped in with racism - and are in many cases equally as evil, but there are terms for those. They don't need to all be lumped into one abhorrent term or practice.

 

[levi]

So you're suggesting for instance that I can't be racist against the French? You could call unfair discrimination against the French by someone like myself as nationalism, but unfortunately that word already has a commonly understood meaning, which could lead to confusion. Hence the convention has grown up to call that racism as well.

 

[erico]

What? 4 pages of this? The world must be solved...
...I will start to be racist against those who own a pandora if not!

 

[Grench]

So you're suggesting for instance that I can't be racist against the French? You could call unfair discrimination against the French by someone like myself as nationalism, but unfortunately that word already has a commonly understood meaning, which could lead to confusion. Hence the convention has grown up to call that racism as well.

Nope, sorry, but no. You cannot dilute the term by using it to label arbitrary territorial, patriotic, political, sports fan, rival group or linguistic characteristic. To do so dilutes and obfuscates the meaning of actual racism.

Let's not let real evil hide behind hijacked terms.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

@levi Don't worry! You can be Francophobe, if you like.

 

[Klumpen]

 

[klapse]

"Science is just a social construct."

 

[mius]

[...] but I fail to see the relevance.

Yes, we already established that fact some posts ago.

"Race" and "racism" are simply not defined by arbitrarily drawn political boundaries.

You're quite close to an epiphany here.

 

[Wally]

This thread has done it's round, all of us moderators agree that it's time to move on.