The Final Revision

[PowerGod]

IT'S THE FINAL REVISION !!! TANANA NA !! TANANA NANA !! TANANA NA !! TANANA NANANANA ... NA NA NA ... NA NA NA NA NA NA NA... NAAA NAAAAAAAAA NANANANANA !!!

 

[Kev2442]

@PowerGod : WILL HANDHELDS EVER BE THE SAME AGAIN !? epic guitars and drums intensify

@Neelix : You cracked me up with that translation. Not a hard job, but still

 

[Askarus]

Nice - I'm glad that the layout is working well for you. Are you making full use of the 4 modifiers on the shoulder buttons or did the shoulders work on your beta case?

Yes, I do.
Shift: same as on the Pandora. I don't use the shift key on the Keyboard, The Shoulder button is so much better for me

Ctrl: While typing I use it to delete a whole word. That's great.
Also for combinations like Ctrl and "+" to zoom in.
Ctrl + W is also a thing I frequently need to close some windows.

Alt (Upper right): That one is nice. I use it to navigate through the file manager. Alt + Up = One folder up. No need to release my hand from the keyboard any more.
And for Web browsing. Alt + Left/Right is Backwards/Forward in History. So I either use Alt + Left it I want to go back or Ctrl + W to close a tab.
What I can not do is Alt + Tab with the shoulder button. That combination only works for Start/SELECT + Tab. That's because one is left and one is Right Alt and Alt + Tab only works with one of them. To solve that both Start and Shoulder Button Alt would have to be the same Key. We decided to leave it the way it is now. Else we would not have both Alt key on the keyboard and both buttons were tied together. There might be some trick in the future to do Alt + Tab but not for now.

Fn (Upper left): I don't use it that much. Mainly for "äöüß" because those are on the right hand side of the keyboard and not easy to use with the Fn on the Keyboard.

I really like the sound of that. I don't have the current & previous versions in my head. What has changed?

After 3 Years it's finally the way EvilDragon told them to do produce it.

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

image too big ....

Spoiler

Dutch has this too except with "omvaren" instead of "umfahren".

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Dutch has this too except with "omvaren" instead of "umfahren".

Didn't Dutch branch out from an earlier revision of German? Or the other way around - however you wanna hold it.

 

[Caine]

IT'S THE FINAL REVISION !!! TANANA NA !! TANANA NANA !! TANANA NA !! TANANA NANANANA ... NA NA NA ... NA NA NA NA NA NA NA... NAAA NAAAAAAAAA NANANANANA !!!

In case you missed it, jump to this post (up arrow after FBnil said):

Tried my best, it's outside my range actually (had to use falsetto)

The lyrics could be improved a bit. It didn't completely flow the way I thought.

 

[Kev2442]

Didn't Dutch branch out from an earlier revision of German?

It seems that Dutch is a fork of an early alpha of German, before they even implemented the second Germanic consonant shift in later commits.

 

[levi]

It seems that Dutch is a fork of an early alpha of German, before they even implemented the second Germanic consonant shift in later commits.

I doubt they'll accept a push request at this stage though; the refactoring alone would be a big headache for them ;p

 

[Grench]

Yes, I do.
Shift: same as on the Pandora. I don't use the shift key on the Keyboard, The Shoulder button is so much better for me

Ctrl: While typing I use it to delete a whole word. That's great.
Also for combinations like Ctrl and "+" to zoom in.
Ctrl + W is also a thing I frequently need to close some windows.

Alt (Upper right): That one is nice. I use it to navigate through the file manager. Alt + Up = One folder up. No need to release my hand from the keyboard any more.
And for Web browsing. Alt + Left/Right is Backwards/Forward in History. So I either use Alt + Left it I want to go back or Ctrl + W to close a tab.
What I can not do is Alt + Tab with the shoulder button. That combination only works for Start/SELECT + Tab. That's because one is left and one is Right Alt and Alt + Tab only works with one of them. To solve that both Start and Shoulder Button Alt would have to be the same Key. We decided to leave it the way it is now. Else we would not have both Alt key on the keyboard and both buttons were tied together. There might be some trick in the future to do Alt + Tab but not for now.

Fn (Upper left): I don't use it that much. Mainly for "äöüß" because those are on the right hand side of the keyboard and not easy to use with the Fn on the Keyboard.

After 3 Years it's finally the way EvilDragon told them to do produce it.

Great stuff! Those shortcuts should be assembled into a, "Shortcuts Cheat Sheet" and included in the documentation somewhere.

For the left/right alt shoulder/start thing... I hate to open the door on keyboard revisions, but this would be restricted to something that would not change any labels. What if we were to swap the left/right assignment for Alt so that shoulder Alt + Tab will toggle through open applications? Maybe there is another way and keep it as it is though. On Windows English US keyboard, either Alt+Tab has the same toggle through open applications effect. I don't have a Linux box in front of me at the moment - someone could check the behavior on that.

It sounds like the issue is that it is pulling up AltGr on the keyboard shoulder definition though. That may be something that is switch-off-ok for everyone who doesn't use/need AltGr. Also, it may be possible to have them software swappable in the on-screen Pyra configuration application that may or may not exist at all yet.

 

[levi]

FWIW, on my english layout keyboard on this laptop (run with a US mapping) the keys labelled alt and alt-gr both work with tab to being up the application switcher. That may be because US keyboards traditionally have two alt keys that do the same thing, so my alt-gr is probably working as a left alt.

 

[Pyramancer]

image too big ....

Spoiler

Like cleave and cleave in English.
[doublepost=1532634082,1532633578][/doublepost]

Great stuff! Those shortcuts should be assembled into a, "Shortcuts Cheat Sheet" and included in the documentation somewhere.

They should already be in the docs for the desktop environment and/or application. It doesn't sound like they're device specific? And if they're not, maybe best not to clutter up the documentation with them?

It sounds like the issue is that it is pulling up AltGr on the keyboard shoulder definition though. That may be something that is switch-off-ok for everyone who doesn't use/need AltGr. Also, it may be possible to have them software swappable in the on-screen Pyra configuration application that may or may not exist at all yet.

I don't have a Linux box in front of me at the moment - someone could check the behavior on that.

Here (on GNOME 3.26) both Alt keys on my laptop (Alt and AltGr) both work with tab for switching applications. I'm not sure if it came this way out of the box or if I configured it myself long ago. I might log into an XFCE destop in a bit and check how that behaves.

 

[levi]

Here (on GNOME 3.26) both Alt keys on my laptop (Alt and AltGr) both work with tab for switching applications. I'm not sure if it came this way out of the box or if I configured it myself long ago. I might log into an XFCE destop in a bit and check how that behaves.

Yeah, but are you using a US keyboard layout? US keyboards have two Alt keys but they've both got the same key behaviour - that of left alt.

 

[Pyramancer]

Yeah, but are you using a US keyboard layout? US keyboards have two Alt keys but they've both got the same key behaviour - that of left alt.

The keyboard on my laptop is designed for US use (I got the US one specifically because the model sold in the Canadian market has distracting hieroglyphics printed all over the keys). But I'm not using it in the default US layout. So "yes" and "no". Anyway this is a good point that I neglected to think about.

However, I went and checked:

For my left alt key (labelled "Alt"),

• showkey --scancodes reports 0x38 on keydown, 0xB8 on keyup, and
  
• evtest reports KEY_LEFTALT.

For my right alt key (labelled "Alt Gr"),

• showkey --scancodes reports 0xE038 on keydown, 0xE0B8 on keyup, and
  
• evtest reports KEY_RIGHTALT.

So they are not both mapped to left alt. Nonetheless both Alt-Tab and AltGr-Tab work here for switching applications in my desktop environment.

 

[levi]

Yes, they are identified distinctly as Alt-L and Alt-R on my system when I use xev, but in all practicable purposes I've tried yet (alt-tabbing and setting numbered arguments in bash) they both work exactly the same, so I think my xmodmap or something is mapping then towards the same sense.

 

[gpsqueeek]

On my laptop (running Manjaro with XFCE) with a "french alt. with Sun dead keys" layout, only the left alt works for alt+tab, not the right altgr. I cannot find alt+tab in the applications shortcuts options (in the keyboard configuration) so it might be somewhere else...

 

[Pyramancer]

On my laptop (running Manjaro with XFCE) with a "french alt. with Sun dead keys" layout, only the left alt works for alt+tab, not the right altgr. I cannot find alt+tab in the applications shortcuts options (in the keyboard configuration) so it might be somewhere else...

It's in the window manager settings (under keyboard) rather than in the applications shortcuts settings.

 

[rygD]

Yes, keyboard thread!

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Ed do you thwink santy claus will bwing me a pyra this year? Remember December... remember December...

 

[Grench]

Yes, keyboard thread!

All Your Threads Are Belong To Keyboard!

 

[God Ginrai]

@Askarus
@Grench

Rather than swapping keys... Why don't we just make the software respond to (<L Alt>|<R Alt>)+<Tab>? I know Windows supports both Alt keys by default for this function. I'm actually surprised to learn it is different elsewhere.

-God Ginrai