The current Pandoras price tag


Because given the Pandora's lifespan, it's not a fortune. Assuming the Pandora came out when in 2010 in full quantites (as it probably would have if ED was running the show) and assume the successor doesn't come out for another 2 years, and assume the Pandora cost 600EUR. That's a little over 100EUR a year, and perfectly affordable especially if it allows you to skip upgrading your phone every year now you have the Pandora.


I buy all my electronics with the lifespan in mind. This netbook I'm typing on is a little over five years old now, my phone is a similar age, and I'm currently setting up an old second-hand P3 as a server, which has to be approaching 15 years old now.
 
I'm currently setting up an old second-hand P3 as a server, which has to be approaching 15 years old now.
Hmm Pentium III came out in 1999: 2013−1999 = 14.. Damn feels like yesterday I had a P3 system I bought when they first came out.
 
No offense here, but how would a person who doesn't like cuttingedge electronics much justify spending a fortune on pandora?
Because Pandora has nothing to do with all these closed "cutting edge" mainstream devices with a short lifespan

and is way more interesting for people like me, that want to have something good and flexible to use longterm or nothing at all.

Modern consumers gather too much stuff around them. A normal cell phone (clamshell) and a Pandora is all I need (regarding tech stuff) for a very long time.
 
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Modern consumers gather too much stuff around them. A normal cell phone (clamshell) and a Pandora is all I need (regarding tech stuff) for a very long time.
You are so right on this one, looking back at things, I never use those things that I paid a fortune for.

But, you should at least have a decent camera, in case something interesting happened, and you only have an unbaked potato on hand to shoot it.

I guess you would happily pay a hefty sum for the next pandora, because you value it. So, my guess for pandora's target market is kinda off. :p
 
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No offense here, but how would a person who doesn't like cuttingedge electronics much justify spending a fortune on pandora?
Because Pandora has nothing to do with all these closed "cutting edge" mainstream devices with a short lifespan


and is way more interesting for people like me, that want to have something good and flexible to use longterm or nothing at all.


Modern consumers gather too much stuff around them. A normal cell phone (clamshell) and a Pandora is all I need (regarding tech stuff) for a very long time.
Can you explain how you feel a mainstream device has a shorter lifespan than the Pandora?
 
^One reason is the the new version of the mainstream device comes out every week as compared to the Pandora which has not had a new version since 2005.  This does not mean the Pandora is dead, on the contrary, it's more lively now than it has ever been. Look at the Shield, Shield 1 just got released couple months ago and NVidia has already had Shield 2 in the works.  Same thing with Apples iProducts :)   So you would have to go though 3 or 4 of those mainstream devices until you would have to replace your Pandora if there is a Pandora-Successor to replace.  In the end, you would spend way more money on these mainstream devices than the Pandora.  So the Pandora comes out winning in the end in terms of price and longevity.

Edit:  And talking about making Pandora successor green?  Give me a break.   Once Pandora successor is out, the will not be a successor for it for a very long time if at all.  So that in itself is very green already.  By not producing a Pandora successor since 2005 or 2006 is already so green. :)   So Pandora wins here too :)
 
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^One reason is the the new version of the mainstream device comes out every week as compared to the Pandora which has not had a new version since 2005. Look at the Shield, Shield 1 just got released couple months ago and NVidia has already had Shield 2 in the works.  Same thing with Apples iProducts :)   So you would have to go though 3 or 4 of those mainstream devices until you would have to replace your Pandora if there is a Pandora-Successor to replace.  In the end, you would spend way more money on these mainstream devices than the Pandora.  So the Pandora comes out winning in the end in terms of price and longevity.
Bloody hell, that's put paid to me buying a Shield 1 just at the moment then.

I think I'll do as others have said and put the money away towards a P2.
 
No offense here, but how would a person who doesn't like cuttingedge electronics much justify spending a fortune on pandora?
Because Pandora has nothing to do with all these closed "cutting edge" mainstream devices with a short lifespan


and is way more interesting for people like me, that want to have something good and flexible to use longterm or nothing at all.


Modern consumers gather too much stuff around them. A normal cell phone (clamshell) and a Pandora is all I need (regarding tech stuff) for a very long time.
Can you explain how you feel a mainstream device has a shorter lifespan than the Pandora?
Because successors are made on a regular basis, (sometimes not versatile and backwards compatible, like Nintendo's handhelds)

soft- and hardware support is limited to a short time span and you are forced to buy the next version with other specs.

Dragonbox is still repairing our Pandoras, while other companies would just deny service or throw them away (ecologically not great, btw...),

the repo is still growing and our programs still get updates after years.
 
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In your own words you don't upgrade just because there is newer hardware. Unless you are making exceptions. There is still community support and development on mainstream android products. iOS doesn't for obvious reasons. Pandoras firmware comes from the community, so do lots of other devices. Applications will continue to work even if the OS isn't updated for the most part. You don't need the latest and greatest OS and hardware for applications to be relevant. I think your argument about mainstream devices having a shorter lifespan is completely invalid and horribly biased. Unless you are comparing the Pandora to a game console which is kinda silly.
 
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In your own words you don't upgrade just because there is newer hardware. Unless you are making exceptions. There is still community support and development on mainstream android products. iOS doesn't for obvious reasons. Pandoras firmware comes from the community, so do lots of other devices. Applications will continue to work even if the OS isn't updated for the most part. You don't need the latest and greatest OS and hardware for applications to be relevant. I think your argument about mainstream devices having a shorter lifespan is completely invalid and horribly biased. Unless you are comparing the Pandora to a game console which is kinda silly.
The Pandora lifespan is comparable with that of a decent laptop or desktop PC. Maybe even a bit better.

Mainstream smartphones and tablets seem to have a significantly shorter lifespan though. The iPad was first released in 2010 and now it is 4 generations behind (we had the iPad 2, iPad 3, iPad 4 and iPad Air since then). The first iPhone was released mid 2007 (I guess that's about the time the Pandora was designed), there are now 7 generations of iPhones.
 
Pandora is a high end (*low spec) nerd toy... Not for the masses... (Lucky you got a 1ghz for $600 - I paid $800 for mine!! In aus/order from ED)
 
That says nothing of the lifespan of the device, my first gen iPad and iPod are still alive and kicking as good as day 1. Still play a fair majority of the apps on iOS. My android handhelds in the same generation are in the same boat. If being generations behind hardware wise means end of life then that says a lot about the Pandora as well because there's not only been 3 generations of Pandoras but the chipset is also several generations behind every other device out there. If the definition is end of official support and software updates (the only one I can sort of understand) then that is backing the Pandora deeper into its niche of having a official yet community provided firmware. Might as well say I like to the Pandora because no mainstream manufacturers rely on community provided firmwares. Not that none are available, but the support isn't official. I'm just saying some people are so twisted into the Pandora cult that the lies they are telling themselves (and try to convince others) are sometimes just absurd.
 
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I'm rooting for the little guys who try to make a positive difference. To say Pandora community is a cult is to say the Linux community, or the open-source community is a cult. Who says Windows community or Android community or Mac iOS are not cults? They are all cults in one way or another. But the Pandora and Linux communities are good cults while Windows and others are not-so-good cults. With Windows, one eats what Bill Gates feeds him. With Apple, one sleeps where Steve Jobs allows him to. But worse, one has to pay or forced to pay to not have a choice to pick his food and choose his bed. With Pandora and Linux and Open-Source cults,things are a little less restricted. Yes every group is a cult in it's own way.


When the little guy becomes big and turns into a tyrant, I will stop rooting for him and root for another small guy to overthrow that tyrant and the cycle repeats :)
 
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The argument isn't about which is the best group to be apart of. Its that there's some weird f*Ker's in this group that opinions are so strongly in favor of this that their opinions are so loud and twisted outside of reality that it more than makes up for the lack of actual number of opinions. I've not once seen a "fan" of windows... Yes some like it, but I've never seen a windows fanboy like I do for Linux and even the Pandora. They both just attract extremists. Just read through some of those free software evangelic posts. That's all I'm saying. Come back to reality... Just a bit.
 
Opinions are fine. But something has to be said about the magical properties I've seen bestowed on this thing. Impervious to age and competition are two big ones I've seen more than others. "oh that doesn't have a Pandora logo on it" no comparison, next!
 
That says nothing of the lifespan of the device, my first gen iPad and iPod are still alive and kicking as good as day 1. Still play a fair majority of the apps on iOS. My android handhelds in the same generation are in the same boat. If being generations behind hardware wise means end of life then that says a lot about the Pandora as well because there's not only been 3 generations of Pandoras but the chipset is also several generations behind every other device out there. If the definition is end of official support and software updates (the only one I can sort of understand) then that is backing the Pandora deeper into its niche of having a official yet community provided firmware. Might as well say I like to the Pandora because no mainstream manufacturers rely on community provided firmwares. Not that none are available, but the support isn't official. I'm just saying some people are so twisted into the Pandora cult that the lies they are telling themselves (and try to convince others) are sometimes just absurd.
As all generalizations they are likely to fail at some point, but at least partially the argument is valid looking at two big players in the market you mentioned: Apple/iOS and Somemanfuacturer/Android:

Your older iPad/iPod/Android device may stil be alive and kicking, but support for it isn't. Now that's the point where it all depends on how you define wether something "breaks" or not. If you only relate it to a functioning hardware and limit it to the specific use case you had in mind when buying it (I like to run software y with version number x on it), then there is no flaw in your argument. But nowadays with the hardware getting less and less the deciding factor anymore, the software that runs it on it gains in importance in terms on "longlivety".

So looking at how many iOS or Android devices lack the support of their manufacturers nowadays, I think their lifespan is indeed relatively short - why else would alternative Android builds (cyanogenmod and such) have such a high popularity, just because people want more choice ? Not very probable. Or yourself, advocating for a newer Version of Android beeing available for the Pandora - Why ? Only because its newer, or because you would like the benefits the new version offers ?

Looking at the Pandora, after all these years its OS is still actively supported by its manufacturer, and not by the community alone- which gets an interesting spin as from the first thoughts about the Pandora on, the OP Team always said that they feel themselves only responsible for the hardware part.

And I'm not talking about providing some servers and this board, I'm talking about actively working on the system: While most part sure is Notaz, djwillis, skeezix, etc. work, Ed also contributed a lot, and is still doing: like working on a more streamlined settings dialog instead of an "endless" chain of zenity dialogs. Is this the same for your first generation iPod ? 

The argument isn't about which is the best group to be apart of. Its that there's some weird f*Ker's in this group that opinions are so strongly in favor of this that their opinions are so loud and twisted outside of reality that it more than makes up for the lack of actual number of opinions. I've not once seen a "fan" of windows... Yes some like it, but I've never seen a windows fanboy like I do for Linux and even the Pandora. They both just attract extremists. Just read through some of those free software evangelic posts. That's all I'm saying. Come back to reality... Just a bit.
I'm sorry to say that, but that is just pure nonsense - there are always people that create a very strong emotional relation to something, and it sure isn't bound to some brand name. I have seen as many "fanboys" for windows as for linux bringing forth ridiculouse arguments. And I do not see many fanboys around here: look at the "Should I buy a Pandora" threads that the pop up every once in a while - I rarely see any "f*ck windows, f*ck capitalism everything must be open source" (or whatever you like to interpret as evangelism) posts, quite the contrary. I usually see people evaluating the specifics the original poster gives and try to give a recommendation (pro and contra Pandora).
 
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I agree with SNESFAN insofar as the very low volume of the Pandora skews the comparison. The few (in absolute numbers) individuals that value the Pandora so much that they are prepared to pay a lot of money (i.e. fanboys like myself) are a significant portion of the market segment. There most probably aren't 100.000 of these.


But in the end this isn't relevant, since a| there seem to be enough fanboys to sell the last Pandoras at their current price tag and b| it doesn't look like it is possible to make a successor significantly cheaper (at a compareable point in its life cycle, at the start it probably is more competitive because of performance being closer to the rest of the market). AFAICT this is precisely because there aren't 100.000 individuals wanting a Pandora enough (with or without dreamcast emulation :) But anybody is free to prove me wrong.


We'll see when ED goes to kickstarter (or whatever) to fund production. I bet you will see more or less the same 3.000 to 5.000 people wanting one that already are interested in the current version, because the use case is similar. Which will result in the same low volume ecosystem that will barely make enough profit (at a high unit price) to pay for the initial development cost. I cannot express how grateful I'm to ED for doing this despite the seemingly low possibility of getting rich. That alone will probably make me buy one or two (even if it contains an intel SoC).
 
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I'm typing this on an iPad 2, haven't found many apps/games that won't work on it. Generally speaking games and apps written for the iPad are developed to work on previous models, purposely so that the dev can reap as much from sales as possible. So all up, I Have to agree with SNESFAN.
 
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