The Cases And The Boards

[EmuGuy]

Frankly, I'm impressed they've owned up to the broken wi-fi situation. Would have been very easy to lie about it...well, except once the first few got in the wild, they'd have a PR nightmare on their hands...if they don't already.

Do we know for sure it's a hardware issue vs software yet? I'd think once a few hundred of these ship, the brilliant folks in this community will figure it out, if it's software. If it's for sure a hardware issue, then perhaps they have to wait and revise the boards (or offer no hassle replacement later on, which ED always has offered I believe)...but if it's just software...then dongle me up, and ship these babies!!

 

[Bosbeetle]

I do agree mostly the wifi was something that was mentioned to be sorting itself out (when enough eyes are on the code) and now it still is, but somehow it has become a situation. So did somebody discover a hardware fault? Or is it a distraction from the cases and boards. I dont think its the last because it is hardly distracting hence this topic. So if it is the first arrangements need to be made so thats the news that breaking now.

 

[Miner49er]

The only little bitches here are the ones that lie down and take whatever bullshit half information they're given and refuse to see a negative side even when it's staring them in the face. To the rational minded human, this project looks to be in some seriously hot water at the moment and it isnt too much to ask for a thorough and truthful explanation.

You just gotta have the faith, the faith, the faith.

 

[Bosbeetle]

The only little bitches here are the ones that lie down and take whatever bullshit half information they're given and refuse to see a negative side even when it's staring them in the face. To the rational minded human, this project looks to be in some seriously hot water at the moment and it isnt too much to ask for a thorough and truthful explanation.

You just gotta have the faith, the faith, the faith.

The fatih ?

 

[mali]

Do we know for sure it's a hardware issue vs software yet? I'd think once a few hundred of these ship, the brilliant folks in this community will figure it out, if it's software.

Something I don't understand:
We have this community, so why hasn't anyone of the team posted an open letter to experts, asking for help, yet?

 

[paddy]

The thing is .... for an open source community funded/run project ,they are silent
with the wifi problem and you can tell that notas has been silenced as he is not giving
anything out.

It doesn't sound good but still ,i say get all 4000 out now or face the bigger issue
of many preorders being canceled if the last 3000 are frozen out untill wifi working
or hardware revising is done.

Forgot to say , i don't think sending out a wifi dongle is a good idea for OP ,i mean the cost alone is pretty high and i am sure most if not all folks on here don't really mind and if they want to use a dongle they can buy their own.

Also ,i feel bad that i am almost pushing testing the OP team by saying that i would cancel but the Pandora was supposed to be my last years 08 christmas present ,then it was supposed to be my last feb 09 birthday present and now another christmas and birthday has gone and now it's pushing into summer or beyond ?

 

[Shaun199three]

The only little bitches here are the ones that lie down and take whatever bullshit half information they're given and refuse to see a negative side even when it's staring them in the face. To the rational minded human, this project looks to be in some seriously hot water at the moment and it isnt too much to ask for a thorough and truthful explanation.

I agree. Its good to see there are less fanboys and more rational minded humans now. I remember like 9 months ago everybody would put you down if you complained but people are getting smarter now and can see pass the BS to see the truth.

 

[Bosbeetle]

Well I think that they'd have to hire a person if they wanted to update us on everything. It would go like this

wifi seems to be stable and working
oh sorry there seems to be a problem just a bit of tweaking
cases are comming the 26th and pictures the 25th
oh cases are delayed a bit and we have to discuss a about paying x or y
boards are coming then and then
oh well boards are not able to be sent yet
on the other hand wifi is looking better
oh after testing its not looking as good as we like
btw we have to arrange this and that
x is now arranged and a bill is payed for the anti static bags
craig is now phoning to compagny x
We're waiting for an email by person y
etc
etc
etc

It would be even more confusing to follow, up to now the team has been pretty clear about where its at. And I believe they will be. You must not forget the 6 of them are dealing with alot you cannot be ontop of everything all the time.

 

[Loon]

Something I don't understand:
We have this community, so why hasn't anyone of the team posted an open letter to experts, asking for help, yet?

Was just about to post a very similar question, one of the strengths of this project is the community behind it. So why not give the community a fairly detailed description of the WIFI problem and see if anyone can help. It might also be worth putting up a bounty for the person / team who solves the WIFI issue once the first 1000 have shipped.

 

[cobaltage]

IMO, the news about the cases is good. The news about the wifi is not a distraction from anything, it's potentially a problem for the developers, who are thinking about the possibility of having new boards made and who are willing to pay for the cost of doing so and swapping out all the older boards if it comes down to that. Because they don't want to ship Pandoras without wifi, they're also entertaining the possibility of including wifi dongles in the meantime.

I don't see why there should be any cause for suspicion here. The developers are keeping us informed and working on putting out the product that they have always intended on producing.

I understand that there's a lot of frustration and anticipation, but the project is complicated enough the way that it is. I don't see any reason to assume there is something even more complicated going on.

 

[VRAndy]

THE STATUE ISN'T THAT BIG, GET OVER IT AMERICA!

Actually, it's rather large.

...And it stands on a pedestal that more than doubles its height.

 

[skeezix]

Didn't read the thread, in a hurry (gotta go show my rev3dev pandora to wizstan and folks

The wifi is not a distraction; the guys are planning on getting together SOON to start the assembly and shipping of those first units, assuming the suggested plans are agreeable and so on. This is not a delay tactic (as evidenced by the fact they're not pushing back the timeline). Heck, they could even go ahead and produce all the units and ship soon, but they're trying to sort out what it is and give everyone the info and figure out the best plan of action. .. the best options and all that.

This is the Razor again -- its probably the simplest explanation, not the most convoluted or evil one. Cases.. you saw pics, and they added a couple days to reifne and are ready to ship son or now, right? units, the first 700 or so are already done IIRC (I'm not in on those details, sorry , so ready to ship, or have been shipped, or whatever.

Those first units are on the verge of begin shipped. Really.

jeff

 

[cobaltage]

The reason both bits of news are coming up is certainly because the devs are trying to figure out what OS image to put on the Pandoras that they'll be putting together in the coming weeks.

 

[Night]

I assume the delay on the Cases doesn't stop the shipment of the already produced cases that we've seen photos of
and that the delay with the better cases is only regarding the cases that weren't produced yet, right?

if so, the only question are: why haven't they shipped yet? or have they shipped yet?.
the explanation for these questions might come with the full blog post.

The WiFi problem being caused by hardware bugs is only a suspicion, right?
if so there's no confirmation or any solid proof yet, we shouldn't be making assumptions for the better or worst.
infect, the boards were mentioned to be produced and tested before, have any of those tests covered the part with the WiFi chip?
or is it possible the WiFi Chip itself is a result of bad production on the chip Manufacturer's side?

 

[Exophase]

Something I don't understand:
We have this community, so why hasn't anyone of the team posted an open letter to experts, asking for help, yet?

In OP's defense, notaz and DJWillis really are experts already. Although I doubt you were implying they aren't.

The hardware vs software question is asked several times, and ED has given a good answer: (paraphrased) "we have no reason to suspect it's a hardware flaw, and we have done testing to ensure that the hardware is behaving as we expect it to electrically, but until it really works we have no way of knowing for sure." I've been in that boat a few times myself, and until it's working that's the best you can get.

But it's probably not a hardware flaw. If it is one it's possibly something that can be fixed with board mods instead of a new spin, although I have no idea how expensive that'd be in comparison, or if that's even an option for a mass proeduced board.

 

[hch]

The wifi issue has distracted everyone from the fact that assembly is supposed to start TOMORROW. How can it when there is nothing to assemble?

distraction - distraction you say? it's a conspiray! CONSPIRACY i tell you! the cia, the nsa, the MiB, the little reen men.... aahhhhhh!

 

[mali]

@Exophase
Sure, I just think the Community as a resource could be used better. We even had a DSP expert here for a while, but he lost interest and went back to the Maemo community. I understand that devboards/devPandoras are expensive, though.

little reen men.... aahhhhhh!

Yep, those reen men suck.

 

[Exophase]

@Exophase
Sure, I just think the Community as a resource could be used better. We even had a DSP expert here for a while, but he lost interest and went back to the Maemo community. I understand that devboards/devPandoras are expensive, though.

torper's offer seems like the best thing this community could ask for right now. OP should definitely take him up on it.. and knowing them I think they will.

 

[torpor]

To be fair, I'm not expecting special treatment just because .. I'd be happy if I just got my Pandora's that I already ordered and have been patiently awaiting all these yars (and I already have a *very* low order # as well, thanks to my pre-order trigger finger) so I could jump on this issue and help out.

If its a matter of determining if the hardware is borked or not, then this would need a lot faster attention, but we'll just have to hope it isn't a hardware thing and try to get the software sorted.

Things to check:

* Alignment is as it should be on all data structures associated with the wlxxx_ controller. There are indications that pbuffers must be aligned on a 4-byte (EDIT: its not 16-byte) boundary - *doublecheck this* because ARM gcc has intrinsics for governing this and they may simply be wrong. Do not assume its right in the current driver, which has x86 roots.

* Optimizations Off/On/Scaled for the wlxxx_sdio driver. Any difference at all with packet statistics - retries/resends/aborts - based on -Ox switch settings?

* Register usage is proper - correct values, nothing done out-of-order, etc. This is the first thing I'd check if I had working hardware - so many times these controller chips expect things to be done in the right order, or there is a simple bit on a config register which isn't fully understood by the programmer so they fail to clear it as they should prior to setting up other values of the hardware, or something like that..

* Clean environment - its obvious, stupid, but nevertheless just has to be said, but do you guys who have dev Pandoras live near an airport by any chance? I have a radio-clean room I can use for my testing, and about 4 or 5 different WLAN routers I could throw at the problem if needed.


EDIT: another thing: why the hell isn't the wl12xx driver from linux-2.6.34-rc2 being used for testing? Wait, don't tell me, its because linux-2.6.34 isn't running on a Pandora yet .. because .. the PowerVR SGX drivers are blobs-only, aren't they, and they haven't been built for 2.6.34 .. grrr .. or is it just coz none of the devs have had time to try to put 2.6.34 on the Pandora .. yet?

 

[renwils]

Has anyone else noticed how big the statue of liberty looks in most movies. Eg, X-men (forget which one), The day after tomorrow.. even GTA4.

THE STATUE ISN'T THAT BIG, GET OVER IT AMERICA!

There's no frame of reference in the poster to judge its size by.