*sigh* Well, I can give you stats that point the entire other way. That's why I ask where they come from. It is a rather reasonable question, if you're trying to make sense of stuff the real way.
Talk About GTA
- Thread starter Kumaki
- Start date
I would have to write a lot more here but fortunately Moxie already wrote all of it.
Thanks for that.
Well, I would like to add, that here in Germany some years ago all this media blaming on video games got this far,
that nowadays nearly every violent US game here is censored AND not sold under adult age
and I am not happy at all about this nanny state nonsense. If it is already rated this way (I am ok with that) , it should at least not be censored.
If the developers of the game made it with exploding heads, it is part of their work of art (and this is what a video game actually is)
and if I do not want to see it, I can always deactivate this,
which I cannot, if I look at a disturbing painting of a well known artist f.E.
Have you seen the german versions of Fallout 1,2 and 3
or of "Dark Messiah of Might and Magic", "Unreal Tournament 2003/2004/III", etc...?
They even removed the ragdoll physics from the last ones, not only blood and splatter effects!
In Turok 1 they exchanged the humans with cyborgs, IN THE JUNGLE!
Quake 3 Arena was banned here nearly from the start.
If you compare this with reports on the news (or with police photos, if you can take a lot),
or even regular american movies, it is all sissy stuff.
Movies are a topic of their own, these are way more violent and dusturbing for decades but Hollywood is an old and strong lobby
and nobody seems to care about that too much (I am fine with that, btw.).
Thanks for that.
Well, I would like to add, that here in Germany some years ago all this media blaming on video games got this far,
that nowadays nearly every violent US game here is censored AND not sold under adult age
and I am not happy at all about this nanny state nonsense. If it is already rated this way (I am ok with that) , it should at least not be censored.
If the developers of the game made it with exploding heads, it is part of their work of art (and this is what a video game actually is)
and if I do not want to see it, I can always deactivate this,
which I cannot, if I look at a disturbing painting of a well known artist f.E.
Have you seen the german versions of Fallout 1,2 and 3
or of "Dark Messiah of Might and Magic", "Unreal Tournament 2003/2004/III", etc...?
They even removed the ragdoll physics from the last ones, not only blood and splatter effects!
In Turok 1 they exchanged the humans with cyborgs, IN THE JUNGLE!
Quake 3 Arena was banned here nearly from the start.
If you compare this with reports on the news (or with police photos, if you can take a lot),
or even regular american movies, it is all sissy stuff.
Movies are a topic of their own, these are way more violent and dusturbing for decades but Hollywood is an old and strong lobby
and nobody seems to care about that too much (I am fine with that, btw.).
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ShleeDragon
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One thing?
ZXDunny
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Not having filled America with our societal and psychological/religious rejects at the very outset might have been a start...
D.
There are hundreds of things that can be done to reduce violent crime, and many of them are being done already.
Which one were you referring to?
....and in case nobody's said it yet, all crime statistics are based on reported crimes.
How could anyone record the total number of rapes when (often) neither the attacker nor the victim want it discussed?
FaeMinx
Rainbow Liberation Instigation
Obviously it's human nature that's the culprit...
...so, there is really only one thing to do...
NUKE THE PLANET!!1!
Btw... I loath all GTA games, FPS war games. Why? They BORE me to tears. It's the theme you see.. I don't like cars either btw. Hmm... Might as well include anything that goes with testosterone. Made for Men? I'll pass...
Give me games where I can *create* things with cute creatures, rainbows and star sprinkles. Make the game deep, intricate and thought provoking and I'll be hooked.
I'm rather upset that my preferred theme of game / literature / media is generally dumbed down and aimed at 6 year olds.
My post so far is fairly random, but I guess my intention was to say that all humans are both good and evil - every single last one. The balance and degree is what fluctuates from person to person and society to society... Every individual as well as the entire planet is like a yin-yang symbol. Darkness and light continuously flowing into each other... With nothing and no-one 'pure' light or 'pure' dark. Everything is tainted. What is good today becomes bad tomorrow and vice versa.
The only way to truely escape this madness is to no longer be human or a part of this reality.
... I've made some progress in this area, but I still have a way to go.
I'll keep you posted if I finally make it... But then, if I do, you in all likelihood won't be able to perceive me anymore.
After all, we are only capable of perceiving what already exists inside us... Especially if we are in denial (i.e. everyone, 98% of the time).
...so, there is really only one thing to do...
NUKE THE PLANET!!1!
Btw... I loath all GTA games, FPS war games. Why? They BORE me to tears. It's the theme you see.. I don't like cars either btw. Hmm... Might as well include anything that goes with testosterone. Made for Men? I'll pass...
Give me games where I can *create* things with cute creatures, rainbows and star sprinkles. Make the game deep, intricate and thought provoking and I'll be hooked.
I'm rather upset that my preferred theme of game / literature / media is generally dumbed down and aimed at 6 year olds.
My post so far is fairly random, but I guess my intention was to say that all humans are both good and evil - every single last one. The balance and degree is what fluctuates from person to person and society to society... Every individual as well as the entire planet is like a yin-yang symbol. Darkness and light continuously flowing into each other... With nothing and no-one 'pure' light or 'pure' dark. Everything is tainted. What is good today becomes bad tomorrow and vice versa.
The only way to truely escape this madness is to no longer be human or a part of this reality.
... I've made some progress in this area, but I still have a way to go.
I'll keep you posted if I finally make it... But then, if I do, you in all likelihood won't be able to perceive me anymore.
After all, we are only capable of perceiving what already exists inside us... Especially if we are in denial (i.e. everyone, 98% of the time).
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I honestly like the GTA games solely as a vehicle simulator, GTA Vice City I fire up occasionally just to ride the fast bike over buildings or take a helicopter and fly under bridges and such.. I tend to get bored of the missions and just sandbox around.
sswam
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Well, I have not played GTA, but I enjoyed Reservoir Dogs and Breaking Bad. Some of the best movies make the viewer sympathise with a "bad guy".
Thanks for bringing GTA to my attention, I will probably buy some of these games (it's $50 for the full collection on steam).
Grand Theft Auto IV for Xbox 360 metascore is 98% "Universal acclaim". That's rather impressive and suggests it is an awesome game. Not quite universal acclaim it seems from this thread!
I think violent games might reduce the incidence of violence in real life, overall. You can take out your aggression in the game, somewhat like playing a ball sport. Might be better if it's more physical, like paint-ball, to burn a bit of energy. And so, perhaps GTA reduces real life car theft for joyriding. After a few hours of Half Life or Portal, I am exhausted and don't feel my usual urges to go out shooting people.
I don't like games that might make someone think it would be cool to join that army and go about shooting arabs. I can do without those games.
Thanks for bringing GTA to my attention, I will probably buy some of these games (it's $50 for the full collection on steam).
Grand Theft Auto IV for Xbox 360 metascore is 98% "Universal acclaim". That's rather impressive and suggests it is an awesome game. Not quite universal acclaim it seems from this thread!
I think violent games might reduce the incidence of violence in real life, overall. You can take out your aggression in the game, somewhat like playing a ball sport. Might be better if it's more physical, like paint-ball, to burn a bit of energy. And so, perhaps GTA reduces real life car theft for joyriding. After a few hours of Half Life or Portal, I am exhausted and don't feel my usual urges to go out shooting people.
I don't like games that might make someone think it would be cool to join that army and go about shooting arabs. I can do without those games.
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thatgui
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I also don't like the GTA games as I have no desire to play someone who is acting anti social and is basically a parasite of society. But I like playing the Halo series a lot (except the last one), which is more or less a mass murder play through. You could argue that it is a war like situation, but thats basically just a excuse for a complementary ticket to kill everyone in your sight.
Thats the pattern for most of the games where you play the "good guy", so I don't really see any real difference on an "educational level" between "good guy" and "bad guy" games.
I am more concerned about violence in media in general (not only games, but movies, TV, Books, etc.) desensitising people. There is/was/will be always a certain part of the market that incorporates/d a certain gore/violence level. But my (of course subjective) observation ist that that part is slowly seeping its content into the mass market.
The human mind is a beast if it is about adapting to situations, so with violence beeing served on our every day platter more and more, I wonder if we get more and more blunt about the level of violence in our surrounding area and our everyday lives. The increasing level of abusive language hellraizer is mentioning could be a symptom of that.
Or while (at least around here) overall crime rates are decreasing slowly for several years now, the amount of "violence in crimes" (sorry for the lack of the correct term) is actually increasing. Of course making a monocausal connection is surely wrong, but I do think increased violence in the media does play a certain part in it.
Thats the pattern for most of the games where you play the "good guy", so I don't really see any real difference on an "educational level" between "good guy" and "bad guy" games.
I am more concerned about violence in media in general (not only games, but movies, TV, Books, etc.) desensitising people. There is/was/will be always a certain part of the market that incorporates/d a certain gore/violence level. But my (of course subjective) observation ist that that part is slowly seeping its content into the mass market.
The human mind is a beast if it is about adapting to situations, so with violence beeing served on our every day platter more and more, I wonder if we get more and more blunt about the level of violence in our surrounding area and our everyday lives. The increasing level of abusive language hellraizer is mentioning could be a symptom of that.
Or while (at least around here) overall crime rates are decreasing slowly for several years now, the amount of "violence in crimes" (sorry for the lack of the correct term) is actually increasing. Of course making a monocausal connection is surely wrong, but I do think increased violence in the media does play a certain part in it.
thatgui
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This can also be perceived (at least partially) as a good thing. As it reflects reality, where there is probably no one that is completly bad in all facets of his personality. But I'm not sure wether Breaking Bad and GTA should be mentioned in the same context (can't remember Reservoir dogs anymore). Breaking Bad constantly reminds you of the "side effects" of beeing a crystal meth cook, but as far as I know there is no real feedback in GTA, except the generic authority / rival responses.
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I love Breaking Bad and am still waiting for the second half of the fifth season, but I never sympathised with any of the characters.
The storyline shows, what people are capable of, if the situation/environment develeops in a certain way and I really like how slowly and realistic all these metamorphosises are shown.
Also the actors are the best team I have seen in an american movie/series for ages.
Usually I see this quality of acting on the BBC or in not woo well known asian (mainly southkorean and japanese) movies.
The storyline shows, what people are capable of, if the situation/environment develeops in a certain way and I really like how slowly and realistic all these metamorphosises are shown.
Also the actors are the best team I have seen in an american movie/series for ages.
Usually I see this quality of acting on the BBC or in not woo well known asian (mainly southkorean and japanese) movies.
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The claim that "science shows no effects from violent video games" is false. Wikipedia says some studies show a link.
"One of the most common criticisms of video games is that it leads to increased tendencies for violence in youth. Numerous studies have been conducted on this topic and several have found a correlation between these two aspects. [1][16][17] However, several other major studies by groups such as The Harvard Medical School Center for Mental Health, The Journal of Adolescent Health, and The British Medical Journal have found no conclusive link between video game usage and violent activity."
But the claim that society as a whole gets more violent has no standing: overall violence decreased during the period when such games became popular:
"Official 2010 records at the U.S. Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention and Office of Justice Programs show that violent crime rates have declined dramatically since the early 1990s in the USA, among both juveniles[43] and adults.[44][45] This decrease occurred despite an explosion in sales of violent video games and increases in graphically violent content during the same period."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_controversies
"One of the most common criticisms of video games is that it leads to increased tendencies for violence in youth. Numerous studies have been conducted on this topic and several have found a correlation between these two aspects. [1][16][17] However, several other major studies by groups such as The Harvard Medical School Center for Mental Health, The Journal of Adolescent Health, and The British Medical Journal have found no conclusive link between video game usage and violent activity."
But the claim that society as a whole gets more violent has no standing: overall violence decreased during the period when such games became popular:
"Official 2010 records at the U.S. Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention and Office of Justice Programs show that violent crime rates have declined dramatically since the early 1990s in the USA, among both juveniles[43] and adults.[44][45] This decrease occurred despite an explosion in sales of violent video games and increases in graphically violent content during the same period."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_controversies
Neelix
Insecticidal Maniac
The first thing that comes to mind here: http://xkcd.com/978/
The other things I note from the text you quoted is that while it does say that, it also says there are conflicting studies, and that the article writer seems to put more stock in those.
The trouble with citing studies, is that you can find a study to show anything you damn well like... and there's no guarantee that the study in question had any real scientific basis at all.
- Neelix
Well, if you read some of the later studies, you will find the explanation for the link in the earlier studies. The thing hinges on "tendencies of violence" - How do you measure that? In the studies that do purport to have found a link, the measurement is usually on association tests and the like. That is, lets do a rhyming game. I say a word, and you give me a rhyme on that. I say "pun" and you say "fun". I say "skill" and you say "thrill". Now, if you instead say "gun" and "kill", that means you classify as having "tendencies to violence". Now, if half of the people have spent an hour playing CoD before the game, the other half has played the piano, and the CoD half tend to say "gun" more often than the piano players, then you've established that violent video games is linked to tendencies of violence.
Or, well, obviously it is a bit more sophisticated than that, but that is the general methodology. The reason, of course, is that it is an easy measurement to take. Associations, word games, What-does-this-picture-look-like-to-you is the tools of the trade for psychological testing. And, it is quick and easy to do, meaning that the research report can be written up in time for the call-for-papers deadline for that sweet conference in Florida. However, this kind of measured "tendency to violence" does not actually translate into actual behaviour - that is, actually acting violently or criminally, or anything like that - which is what the later studies have looked at.
So: Playing video games would cause you to more easily associate to words like "gun" half an hour after the game, and that is what is reported as "Tendencies to violence". It has never been shown to correspond to actual violence of the more out-of-laboratory kind, though (or rather - Not with a frequency exceeding the normal rate of violence when checked for age and background).
Or, well, obviously it is a bit more sophisticated than that, but that is the general methodology. The reason, of course, is that it is an easy measurement to take. Associations, word games, What-does-this-picture-look-like-to-you is the tools of the trade for psychological testing. And, it is quick and easy to do, meaning that the research report can be written up in time for the call-for-papers deadline for that sweet conference in Florida. However, this kind of measured "tendency to violence" does not actually translate into actual behaviour - that is, actually acting violently or criminally, or anything like that - which is what the later studies have looked at.
So: Playing video games would cause you to more easily associate to words like "gun" half an hour after the game, and that is what is reported as "Tendencies to violence". It has never been shown to correspond to actual violence of the more out-of-laboratory kind, though (or rather - Not with a frequency exceeding the normal rate of violence when checked for age and background).
ZXDunny
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This. Neelix might not like boobs, but he is correct on this score.The first thing that comes to mind here: http://xkcd.com/978/
The other things I note from the text you quoted is that while it does say that, it also says there are conflicting studies, and that the article writer seems to put more stock in those.
The trouble with citing studies, is that you can find a study to show anything you damn well like... and there's no guarantee that the study in question had any real scientific basis at all.
What's worse is that flawed studies and biased reporting on studies leads more susceptible people, like [REDACTED] above in this discussion, to assume that it's fact and become fearful of the subject where there was no need for fear previously. This leads her, due to her gullibility, to demanding that "the system" censor these games and videos in the interests of her own personal safety. From there's it's a spiral down into the "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" chicken-headedness which leads eventually into people like this attempting to abuse their positions of power in order to "get one over" on people who do not approve of their unscientific attitude to things like violence - which devolves finally into using their positions to abuse people they just don't like very much.
And all because a piece of sensationalist reporting was thoughtlessly bandied about in order, no doubt, to generate some cash.
D.
Edit: removed the name of said gullible person above in the interests of peace.
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Fzero
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Some people used to think my watching of The A-Team would corrupt my young mind.
I grew up alright I think.
GTA, like all other rated 18 games, is ok if you're over 18 and not a complete numpty that can't distinguish between 'bad in real life' / 'OK in a game'.
I think the key is to have a healthy balance of Mario Bros along with your GTA.
I grew up alright I think.
GTA, like all other rated 18 games, is ok if you're over 18 and not a complete numpty that can't distinguish between 'bad in real life' / 'OK in a game'.
I think the key is to have a healthy balance of Mario Bros along with your GTA.
Correct and well put.
ShleeDragon
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Mark David Chapman fired at Lennon five times, hitting him four times in his back. Chapman later remained at the scene reading J. D. Salinger's novel The Catcher in the Rye until the police arrived and arrested him. Chapman repeatedly claimed that the novel was his statement.
LET'S BURN ALL OF THE BOOKS!
LET'S BURN ALL OF THE BOOKS!
sswam
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No! Ever since that gorilla business Mario has been a sexist animal abuser!
Every dratted animal is hostile, and must killed with blunt force to the head, burned alive, or otherwise struck down!
Women are mere helpless princesses to be rescued, they speak in a squeaky voice, always wear fluffy pink dresses. Sexist!
The only other friendly life-forms in Mario as I recall are cognisant mushrooms! and some of the flowers.
DON'T BE DECEIVED BY THE CUTE GRAPHICS AND FUNKY MUSIC!!! MARIO IS EVIL!!! AVOID MARIO!!! BAD MARIO!!! Better play GTA - at least you know what you're dealing with there.
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