Penguin-Guru
Member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2016
- Messages
- 42
The debates we all know so well, now hopefully presented in a single, logistically appropriate place.
I am opening this thread because the Devuan thread was falling into chaos. I hope people will use it for all future SysD debate and keep the rest of the site clean. My first, and possibly only, post here will be a copy of my most recent post in the Devuan thread to get people started. If nobody actually has anything to say on this topic, that's fine with me. It's probably only useful if people are really interested.
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I believe these debates may be socially useful so please consider some general requests for the sake of utility and civility:
1: Be kind to one another. We do not all need to think the same way, this debate is only useful for honestly educational purposes.
2: Do not become unduly emotional. It is not useful because there is no mutual exclusivity; both sides of this debate have strong communities to ensure their continuity.
3: Use general common sense to present yourself clearly and do your own research before posting arguments or questions.
4: Reserve liking posts for posts that are objectively useful. There is no value to simply liking all posts that you personally agree with.
5: Provide citations when appropriate or on request. My initial comment will exemplify my preferred style of citation but really anything is fine.
6: Edit comments to strike-through(cross-out) invalidated comments for the clarity of future readers. I am not sure how to do this in the Rich Text Editor but this BBcode implementation uses the letter 's' in brackets and a '/s' in brackets to close the tag, like HTML.
7: Take the time to read, or at least gloss-over, this web page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies. It may be useful to reference it when appropriate to maintain order but not, for example, ad hominem.
These requests are based on my observations of previous hot-topic threads and, although I have no power or desire to enforce them, I believe they will make the discussion much more enjoyable and useful for everyone.
[doublepost=1476030625,1476030368][/doublepost]
I am opening this thread because the Devuan thread was falling into chaos. I hope people will use it for all future SysD debate and keep the rest of the site clean. My first, and possibly only, post here will be a copy of my most recent post in the Devuan thread to get people started. If nobody actually has anything to say on this topic, that's fine with me. It's probably only useful if people are really interested.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe these debates may be socially useful so please consider some general requests for the sake of utility and civility:
1: Be kind to one another. We do not all need to think the same way, this debate is only useful for honestly educational purposes.
2: Do not become unduly emotional. It is not useful because there is no mutual exclusivity; both sides of this debate have strong communities to ensure their continuity.
3: Use general common sense to present yourself clearly and do your own research before posting arguments or questions.
4: Reserve liking posts for posts that are objectively useful. There is no value to simply liking all posts that you personally agree with.
5: Provide citations when appropriate or on request. My initial comment will exemplify my preferred style of citation but really anything is fine.
6: Edit comments to strike-through
7: Take the time to read, or at least gloss-over, this web page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies. It may be useful to reference it when appropriate to maintain order but not, for example, ad hominem.
These requests are based on my observations of previous hot-topic threads and, although I have no power or desire to enforce them, I believe they will make the discussion much more enjoyable and useful for everyone.
[doublepost=1476030625,1476030368][/doublepost]
Seems like this thread has fallen back into the SysD debates. Please consider moving to another thread called "SystemD Debates", which I have just created (Link-1 below), so that Devuan users can sort through the information relevant to their configuration more easily.
That said, I think it's safe to say none of us are going to change our opinions regardless of what evidence is brought to bear. There is plenty of information out there for those interested, trying to change the opinions of those uninterested is simply a waste of time. Devuan exists to offer an alternative so I hope that people will come to accept differences of opinion. I'll hang a lantern in advance for what is probably a scientifically controversial statement but I believe that people become emotional on this topic because we are afraid that the alternative technology will usurp our preference, thereby endangering our personal comfort. Personally, I find SysD disgusting primarily on principle, but I will not try to convince people to move away from it; a moral decision based on the same principle-- freedom of choice. In fact, I might even recommend it for some use-cases based on organisational circumstances. It is a matter of personal and professional opinion, but the beauty of free software is that we never run the risk of precluding preferences. Where something is not satisfactory, we may change it to suit our ideals. Naturally, less popular software will suffer from less development effort, but the choice is always our to make. In the case of SysD, there are already satisfactory alternatives and a passionate community to support them long-term. Despite the mass-adoption of SysD, Devuan shines pure as an example of our culture's resilience in solidarity. Although I'm not actually affiliated with them in any way, this is why I wanted to make sure it would be available to Pyra users, and this is why I would like to keep the SysD debates and Devuan support threads separate. Devuan is not about hating SystemD.
Link-1: https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/systemd-debates.78306/