Steam announcement countdown..


SNESFAN said:
The problem is that a portion of those original computer savvy people went on and made getting into computer much much easier so that now everyone can use a computer and now you have a lot more average users % wise of the total population... while the % of the total computer users out of the population has gone up a bunch, I think the % of skilled computer users in the population has stayed the same if not gotten much larger due to greater availability and ease of use getting started. And of those skilled there's bound to be a wide spectrum of skill between them that is not much unlike the way it used to be either.

tldr; offtopic and disagree completely with the above comment
Click to expand...
I agree with this being offtopic, but since the matter is close to my heart and I have Strong Opinions I still want to point out two things:

  1. I was specifically talking of people who are now 12-18, because that is the age group I work with. Biggest gamers in general have not impressed me:
    • The kids who have been interested in programming and electronics at our school are typically, at best, what you'd call "casual gamer"... they are interested in pretty much everything around them...
    • Quite the contrary, actually: PC gamers know the latest nVidias, mobos, etc. But have no interest in any other aspect of their computer than gaming performance and getting mom and dad to pay for more gear.
    • As for console gamers... well, GTAV is literally showing in absense stats this week and these kids are not even old enough to legally get the game! There's a ton of trouble there that I sure as **ll have no clue what anyone could do about... and don't get started with "parents,parents"... I used to, I no longer do after discussing this with tens of them...
  2. This is very important: In my experience and after thinking about "what the heck happened here" I've come to the conclusion that ease of access does not automatically equal willingness to learn. There is also need for incentive to learn and ease of access has made the incentive a lot lesser. In this respect I vote that mid 90's has possibly been the golden age for computing as a hobby, because ease of access and incentive to learn were a lot more balanced in that period.
To summarize:

I would not know assembly language for any CPU today if I had been given a Windows 8 machine as a teen. That stuff would have been layers and layers too deep. Yet it still runs there, in the background. You don't stumble on a BASIC interpreter to start that path in today's computers and go "so what's this then".

I would not know soldering today if my first computer had been something like a Pandora. I would just think "it was done by a machine, so it can't be modified by a human". Having seen things get smaller and smaller I've cursed my shaky hands more and more, but lived with it... I suffered when "now obligatory" leadless solder felt like trying to work with frozen bitumen compared to hot, but I lived with it...

Whether either skill has any use in today's life is open for debate, but I enjoy doing both when I can, so that's a bit more happy content in my life the kids today are unlikely to stumble upon :) . We don't always need to invent The Next Big Thing in a hobby. In fact, we rarely do. But not all hobbies are equal.

I'm really sorry for derailing the thread so. A mod might want to get this comment and other related ones and just split it somewhere else, because, I warn you, I just might even resume this rambling... ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I would not know assembly language for any CPU today if I had been given a Windows 8 machine as a teen.
Click to expand...
I conquer witht this. Im a senior in Highschool and am in the only Assembly class offered in any highschool in the USA. My teacher is going to talk to Microchip and speak at a conference which hopefully will lead to more funding for my school. I can honestly say I fucking hate assembly, hex, machine, binary and anything else that class causes me to interface with (who ever thought interrupts were a good idea?) But I dont even for a second regret gaining the knowlege. While I greatly dislike assembly and would never have learned it on my own, I can say that I will now take as many classes in it as I can simply because its so useful and marketable. Between my work at Texas Instruments and my knowlege of low-level coding I will have a much greater chance of being hired. But as for the whole "my generation is fucked up" I hear this every day. Grandparents think it sinve we're not WASPs following the allmighty Jebus, thinking the military is a good thing, from parents hypocritically thinking we drink and do drugs more than they did even though most studies conclude that my generation does that far less than theirs, and now from Ekianjo and the like for thinking their highly specialized and dated Electrical Engineering degrees are somehow better than a world where computers are accessible by all.


Yes, I wish everyone was a computer expert and studied the functions of a microchip on their own accord, but I know that will never happen. But dont ever think for a second that just because things change, that they are someone inherently worse simply because you are incapable of seeing the positives.


/rant
 
Just realised there are no buttons either.

Utter fail.

I was so looking forward to this being the future of PC gaming in the living room.
 
EssoAir said:
Ya I domt get why you would forego the analog sticks for trackpads
Click to expand...
I guess the thinking is that this is a handheld alternative to Mouse/Keyboard PC Controls - since it's PC games it's aimed at. Sticks just can't be manipulated as quickly or as accurately for aiming as a mouse, a trackpad is a compromise. Not as good as a mouse (limited control area - you can't do a 180 or sudden flip like with a mouse) but not as fiddly as a stick. Could be good for driving games, where you'd 'rotate' your finger around the pad as if a steering wheel, but it would take a long time to get used to that.

I think it'll take a bit of fine tuning sensitivity for every game, and I wonder if FPS players wouldn't just prefer Mouse+Keyboard anyway, there's no reason they couldn't still use them in a living room setup.

First reviews will be interesting. Price will be a lot more revealing.
 
Seriously? Y'all sound like the same people criticizing the Pandora without ever using it. :p
 
EssoAir said:
... I dont even for a second regret gaining the knowlege. While I greatly dislike assembly and would never have learned it on my own...
Click to expand...
Then you're definitely not among the students I would be worried about, which is most important... but you don't exactly work as a prime example of the kind of four eyed computerspeak geeks I hope still exist somewhere on this planet.

Do note that if I met you in class, I might not consider you a hardcore gamer though... you'd probably fall into the category of "kids interested of everything"...

EssoAir said:
But as for the whole "my generation is fucked up" I hear this every day. Grandparents think it sinve we're not WASPs following the allmighty Jebus, thinking the military is a good thing, from parents hypocritically thinking we drink and do drugs more than they did even though most studies conclude that my generation does that far less than theirs, and now from Ekianjo and the like for thinking their highly specialized and dated Electrical Engineering degrees are somehow better than a world where computers are accessible by all.

Yes, I wish everyone was a computer expert and studied the functions of a microchip on their own accord, but I know that will never happen. But dont ever think for a second that just because things change, that they are someone inherently worse simply because you are incapable of seeing the positives.
Click to expand...
Uhh... well, I hope you didn't just start counting me among "the like"...

Dead wrong, if you do: I don't think your generation has more messed up individuals in it than my own generation has, when you compare relatively. Heck, as far as your examples of studying (yes, I got a grade... eventually :rolleyes: ) and military (yes, I went because it was obligatory... but there the least of my sins was intentionally failing :ph34r: all tests that would have increased the time spent there...) goes I'm a very, very poor example of how to spend your youth to anyone...

Also note that my IT career (which I consider, for now, to be "on ice") did not start because I wanted to utilize my hobby at work. Truthfully, it started when I ran out of money (government aid for studies was bound to progress of studies... <_< ) and needed to get some money. Utilizing my hobby was the easy way without a grade.

So, yes, play Looser from Beck and you got me!

The intention of my reply was definitely not to say "kids today know nothing of nothing", but to explain why I do not think the percentage of techy people is even the same as it used to be. And also that the kind of computer hobbying I'm seeing at school these days is very unlikely to land a job, for sure, but also seems to me to be a lot less creative.

I'm sorry that did not come through properly.

The comment about a Windows 8 laptop (and onwards) really was not meant as an attack towards kids, but more as a "you can't blame the kids for that, because" kind of thing...

I do have to say and admit though, that I value almost anything higher as a hobby these days than gaming. Reading, instruments, anything that forces you to create is better than just gaming (I'm these days of the firm opinion that the only constructive form of media consumption is plain old reading)... So I'm going to continue being a poor example and game for a while now :).
 
Asmo said:
EssoAir said:
Ya I domt get why you would forego the analog sticks for trackpads
Click to expand...
I think it'll take a bit of fine tuning sensitivity for every game, and I wonder if FPS players wouldn't just prefer Mouse+Keyboard anyway, there's no reason they couldn't still use them in a living room setup
Click to expand...
Steam also sells titles like DCS A10 Warthog :blink: .

Well... we'll see...
 
interesting pad. For some of those FPS I guess those 2 pads will prove pretty good.

Not really liking the position of those buttons either though, the bottom ones perhaps ok but the top two look like they might be better positioned on the bottom too but on the other side of the pads
 
MrConfusion said:
EssoAir said:
... I dont even for a second regret gaining the knowlege. While I greatly dislike assembly and would never have learned it on my own...
Click to expand...
Then you're definitely not among the students I would be worried about, which is most important... but you don't exactly work as a prime example of the kind of four eyed computerspeak geeks I hope still exist somewhere on this planet.

Do note that if I met you in class, I might not consider you a hardcore gamer though... you'd probably fall into the category of "kids interested of everything"...

EssoAir said:
But as for the whole "my generation is fucked up" I hear this every day. Grandparents think it sinve we're not WASPs following the allmighty Jebus, thinking the military is a good thing, from parents hypocritically thinking we drink and do drugs more than they did even though most studies conclude that my generation does that far less than theirs, and now from Ekianjo and the like for thinking their highly specialized and dated Electrical Engineering degrees are somehow better than a world where computers are accessible by all.


Yes, I wish everyone was a computer expert and studied the functions of a microchip on their own accord, but I know that will never happen. But dont ever think for a second that just because things change, that they are someone inherently worse simply because you are incapable of seeing the positives.
Click to expand...
Uhh... well, I hope you didn't just start counting me among "the like"...

Dead wrong, if you do: I don't think your generation has more messed up individuals in it than my own generation has, when you compare relatively. Heck, as far as your examples of studying (yes, I got a grade... eventually :rolleyes: ) and military (yes, I went because it was obligatory... but there the least of my sins was intentionally failing :ph34r: all tests that would have increased the time spent there...) goes I'm a very, very poor example of how to spend your youth to anyone...


Also note that my IT career (which I consider, for now, to be "on ice") did not start because I wanted to utilize my hobby at work. Truthfully, it started when I ran out of money (government aid for studies was bound to progress of studies... <_< ) and needed to get some money. Utilizing my hobby was the easy way without a grade.


So, yes, play Looser from Beck and you got me!


The intention of my reply was definitely not to say "kids today know nothing of nothing", but to explain why I do not think the percentage of techy people is even the same as it used to be. And also that the kind of computer hobbying I'm seeing at school these days is very unlikely to land a job, for sure, but also seems to me to be a lot less creative.


I'm sorry that did not come through properly.


The comment about a Windows 8 laptop (and onwards) really was not meant as an attack towards kids, but more as a "you can't blame the kids for that, because" kind of thing...


I do have to say and admit though, that I value almost anything higher as a hobby these days than gaming. Reading, instruments, anything that forces you to create is better than just gaming (I'm these days of the firm opinion that the only constructive form of media consumption is plain old reading)... So I'm going to continue being a poor example and game for a while now :).
Click to expand...
Lolk

The thing is, at least in the US, since we have so few manufacturing jobs, schools are forced to prepare everyone for college. My state recently removed the technical highschool diploma all together. So now, according to state law, high schools must assume that all students plan on going to college. So all we are told about is college and job placement. If we had more technical paths, I think there would be a lot more people learning about electrical engineering than there are currently. Its a catch 22. By going to college you keqrn more in total and become more marketable, but in turn you have more prerequisites and so learn less techninal stuff and therefor less that is relevant to a technology field.


im actually very lucky to attend the school I do. And further I will be going to Florida tech for college because instead of having the general education that most schools require fir freshman and sophomore year, they stick you in your major first simester frechman year. So, I will have taken twice as many computer classes once I graduate than the average CS student.
 
MrConfusion said:
SNESFAN said:
The problem is that a portion of those original computer savvy people went on and made getting into computer much much easier so that now everyone can use a computer and now you have a lot more average users % wise of the total population... while the % of the total computer users out of the population has gone up a bunch, I think the % of skilled computer users in the population has stayed the same if not gotten much larger due to greater availability and ease of use getting started. And of those skilled there's bound to be a wide spectrum of skill between them that is not much unlike the way it used to be either.

tldr; offtopic and disagree completely with the above comment
Click to expand...
I agree with this being offtopic, but since the matter is close to my heart and I have Strong Opinions I still want to point out two things:

  1. I was specifically talking of people who are now 12-18, because that is the age group I work with. Biggest gamers in general have not impressed me:
    • The kids who have been interested in programming and electronics at our school are typically, at best, what you'd call "casual gamer"... they are interested in pretty much everything around them...
    • Quite the contrary, actually: PC gamers know the latest nVidias, mobos, etc. But have no interest in any other aspect of their computer than gaming performance and getting mom and dad to pay for more gear.
    • As for console gamers... well, GTAV is literally showing in absense stats this week and these kids are not even old enough to legally get the game! There's a ton of trouble there that I sure as **ll have no clue what anyone could do about... and don't get started with "parents,parents"... I used to, I no longer do after discussing this with tens of them...
  2. This is very important: In my experience and after thinking about "what the heck happened here" I've come to the conclusion that ease of access does not automatically equal willingness to learn. There is also need for incentive to learn and ease of access has made the incentive a lot lesser. In this respect I vote that mid 90's has possibly been the golden age for computing as a hobby, because ease of access and incentive to learn were a lot more balanced in that period.
To summarize:

I would not know assembly language for any CPU today if I had been given a Windows 8 machine as a teen. That stuff would have been layers and layers too deep. Yet it still runs there, in the background. You don't stumble on a BASIC interpreter to start that path in today's computers and go "so what's this then".

I would not know soldering today if my first computer had been something like a Pandora. I would just think "it was done by a machine, so it can't be modified by a human". Having seen things get smaller and smaller I've cursed my shaky hands more and more, but lived with it... I suffered when "now obligatory" leadless solder felt like trying to work with frozen bitumen compared to hot, but I lived with it...

Whether either skill has any use in today's life is open for debate, but I enjoy doing both when I can, so that's a bit more happy content in my life the kids today are unlikely to stumble upon :) . We don't always need to invent The Next Big Thing in a hobby. In fact, we rarely do. But not all hobbies are equal.

I'm really sorry for derailing the thread so. A mod might want to get this comment and other related ones and just split it somewhere else, because, I warn you, I just might even resume this rambling... ;)
Click to expand...
the picture of the controller destroyed this thread way more than any derailment could have ever done.... valve either is trolling the internet hard, or has hired a idiot and this project is doomed to fail, game controller without buttons? Why not just play your pc games with your ipod? I'll tell you why.... they got an app for that... and it sucks!!!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Dilsook.GameController&hl=en

anyway... back off topic.... I didn't really "grasp" anything on computers until I was 12 and even then it was slow and sparatic. My son is 8, he's at the level I was at 4 years earlier than I was when I hit it. Not bragging, I'm just saying I hope he exceeds me. It wasn't till my mid 20's did I actually start pursuing it as a active hobby. I just built my own computers to play games on before that, just as kids do now I think. Programming is complex stuff I don't think I personally could have really grasped at that age, especially at any level to be good at it.

Just because they offer computer programming to kids doesn't mean kids are meant to be programmers, and maybe just not at that point in their lives. If they're exceptional kids then maybe, but I don't see it as a bad sign of things to come. Even if they don't fully understand or comprehend anything. Throwing shit agianst the wall, some of it's bound to stick. Just like I took woodshop in highschool I sucked at it then, and it's not a hobby of mine now, but I have built some shelves in my lifetime.. some shit stuck to the wall... in the form of a shelf apparently and it's still hanging there to this day... for my wife's sake I hope it stays up.

I dropped out of programming class as a teen because I found it boring at the time. I later independently re-learned and am still learning different programming languages because I found I now like that kinda stuff and my interests have changed. I'm a lot better programmer than I am a carpenter. I wouldn't have been what you would consider a computer geek in highschool, just slightly interested in it, it's a tool to play games on, basically what you describe your kids as being. Don't take your impression of them now to mean what they will eventually become is my point. To say your narrow view (no offense) on the population as a whole is unfair when if 1 out of 1000 people that learns about computers becomes what we would agree to be a "good programmer" you're still doing a hell of a lot better than from 30 years ago... even this community of programming and computer enthusiasts. thousands here, maybe a couple handfuls that really keep it all running, most of it is just talk and "casual" programming. (I know it's probably a higher % but you get my point)

accessibility does not equate computer competence true, but I feel it does encourage it. Even if you're not fixing things all the time, or having to manually type everything out to run it. I grew up with dos and windows 3.1 as my first experiences and now saw them as more of a hindrance to me learning than a benefit, at least at that stage of my life. If I had to deal with linux at that stage of usability back then, I would have probably dismissed computers all together, or focus on something else maybe. Also things like 24/7 internet and wikipedia and google were not even a thing back when, even when I was growing up, I can't imagine the situation for anyone older trying to figure things out, it couldn't have been very efficient. Not to mention things like cost being overly prohibitive, even for me, my first computer cost several hundreds of dollars and was slow as shit even for it's time. I think those changes are going to empower the next generation to learn better and faster, in fact, probably already have. Now you can get an rasberry pi for like $30 or throw away cell phones that performs at a better level than my first computer and is actually way more functional and easier to use and learn with documentation and support out the ass. So yea, I feel accessibility and being successful in learning computers and being rewarded if things "just work" doesn't hurt your wanting to learn more, if anything I think it helps you to come back and learn more if it worked as expected the first time. You can say I'm wrong, but I feel as if I'm right.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This controller could be really really great. Or it could be horrible. I guess it depends on how it's used. The trackpads are clickable, so I assume depending on where you push down on the pad it could act as an array of buttons, meaning it can be used not only for camera movement but in place of the four action buttons on a traditional gamepad. 
 
To me it's the lack of a dpad which makes it a bit of a fail, here's hoping they go modular and at least have the option of a dpad.


I can see the logic of making something different but it looks a little too off the wall to me.
 
Never used Steam before, but do they have a lot of games which need digital controls?
 
Wow, the controller seems to kick ass.

And it's openness should lead to even more awesomeness.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Fzero
SteamOS
Replies
8
Views
4K
Fzero
Fzero
ekianjo
Steam Machines, Almost One Year Later
2 3
Replies
51
Views
4K
ekianjo
ekianjo
Garrett
Resident Evil 4 'Ultra HD' version coming Feb 28th
Replies
12
Views
1K
Pritchy
P
undexsym
Release MRS SNAKE Pandora Edition
Replies
14
Views
5K
undexsym
undexsym
Garrett
SCALE - 'first person reality manipulation game'
Replies
1
Views
809
FaeMinx
FaeMinx
Back
Top